A month back i started reading about Shiasm in detail, though i had an idea about their believes but the exact begining of shiasm was not known to me. Plus some new believes of shiasms were cleared on me.
The objectionable believes of Shiasm are
They do not respect the jalil ul qadr Sahabis of Prophet SAW. While there are authentic books of ahadiths full of their praise but they can see nothing.
Most of the Shias, i think 90% are following what there forefathers were doing which is in resemblence to Kuffar of Quraish who did not accepted Islam because they said they cannot go against their forefathers.
There is a major lack of right knowledge in Shia community. Majority of books they follow are unauthentic and are far from the truth and are full of evil believes.
Concept of Imam, this is very popular in Shias and even in some sects of sunnis. Allah SWT has sent his messanger Muhammed ibn Abdullah SAW to be followed and not Imams. No where in Quran or in sunnah of Prophet SAW it is mentioned to follow imams. What is said in the last sermon of Prophet SAW was to follow QURAN AND SUNNAH. And about the right sect, Prophet SAW said the one which follows me and my Companions. The differences between the different sects are just because of this. Every Imam gives rulings according to his understanding of Islam. No doubts the imams who actually are nice religious people do a lot of good work for Islam and our duty is to try to understand islam through them and all of them not to follow one person and name him imam (leader).
SHIRK is very much found in the believes and even in the prayers of shias. They do sijda on a special kind of circular thing (i don’t know the name) which is made of mud of Karbala. They call YA ALI and YA HUSSAIN which are shirkia kalimat and believe in the aqeeda of WASEELA which again is SHIRK. They call Hazrat Ali RAA their Maula which again is Shirk
Bid’aat, one who brings new things to Islam is a mardud as per Aba Qasim SAW. Shiasm is full of Bid’aat, their way of performing prayer is self constructed and is not proved by Prophet SAW or Sahaba RAA Ajmaeen. Plus the concept that Imam cannot make mistakes and Ahl-e-Bayt are wajib ul ita’at are some of the examples of bid’aat.
Point no. 6 i.e. Shirk, is alone enough to declare a Shia Mushrik, i.e. someone who WILL NEVER GO TO JANNAH and Jannah is Haram on Mushrekeen.
Plus it is agreed among all scholars that Munkar of Rasool SAW is a KAFIR, i.e. if someone is proved with a hadith of Prophet SAW and we deny it for no reason. It is Kufar, and Allah SWT has already said in Quran that no one can be a Muslim until he makes Prophet SAW judge in the matter and accepts his decision without any objection even in his heart. There are so many ahadiths of Sahih Bukhari (which near the Ulema of the Muslim Ummah is the most authentic book of hadith) which have been rejected by Shias just on a suspision that sunnah of Prophet SAW has been changed.
In the end, i will advice all shias to think about their believes and their faith and try to know the truth. Following what your forefathers have been doing is never going to help and will not be an excuse on the day of Judgement.
You may wish to be careful when referring to others or other sects as kaafirs/kurf. I've edited the title.
I've skimmed through your post and can't make much out of it other than the fact that you're listing your issues with the Shia sect. I don't see any references posted either.
Humble Man
I am not Shi'a but would like to ask you something.
Are you not following what your mother or father thought you.
Before you start talking about something you have to study why it is done. (you just started "I think" "I don't know the name" ) which shows your poor thoughts put on this question.
Did you provided any proof that they are "Munkir" of Hazrat Mohammed (PBUH)??
Stop listening to your forefathers and Mulla's. Read yourself, study and then you will be in position judge something.
i think u will find more sunnis involved in shirk than shiaas (in terms of numbers)....
christians limited shirk to one man (a prophet), shiaas limit it to a finite number (from the progeny of a prophet) and u will find sunnis associating infinite number of partners to Allah and some of them under the graves r not even known, whether they were muslims even is not known....
the first post i think was talking about shiasm not shia's
armughal is right, i mean a lot sunnis practise shirk too, but on the whole sunni scholars condemn shirk, i dont know about shia ulema though
Humble Man,
I think you are trying intentionally to ruin the peace of this thread. In my opinion it is not a good idea to discuss this issue at this point of time. You do not have any right to say Mushrik or Kafir to anyone this is not an Islamic tradition. I humbly request you to stop this thing before your version of Islam (the sect you are practicing) is also under attack from my other sect brothers. Please talk about harmony and brotherhood or discuss some informative issues rather throwing stone or bashing other Muslims. Like I said earlier You do not have any right as a Muslim (belong to any sect) to talk in that way as you have been talking to even a Non Muslim in Surrah (AL-KAFIROON) Lord Almighty clearly said.
I worship not that which ye worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship, To you be your Way, and to me mine
true OMG, no sect is allowed in islam, but remember that the prophet (SWS) said in a hadith that his ummah will split into 73 sects
we should all be following the way of the prophet and his companions
Praise is due to Allah who is the Master of All Worlds, our Creator and Sustainer and Peace and blessings of Allah be on the seal of the Prophets, Hazrat-e-Muhammad [pbuh] and his Household who stood in the path of the religion and those companions who sacrificed their lives for the betterment of Islam.
I have read the original post in the thread when it was posted and followed it since then to date. At first, I did not intend to reply to this scurrilous attack and hateful propaganda but after reading the continuous bashing of Shia and its creeds and falsely accusing them of something they do not believe and stand for and largely due to turning a blind eye and a deaf ear by the original poster to some of the good pieces of advice put forward here by some of the just and reasonanble members, I thought it would be better to say few things and brush off the insanity going around.
Since I'm a new member here, I did not want to start my time here attacking someone else's religious beliefs but I was compelled to do so after reading such a lame attempt by someone who calls himself Muslim and follower of Quran and Prophetic Sunnah.
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so no rafidi has responded so far..or u all are in taqqiyah
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Do you understand the meaning of the word to the least degree which I have emboldened above? with your usage of it, I guess not. And this line is sufficient enough to disqualify your very first statement in the original post where you have said that you have "read" about Shia beliefs and their practices and came to know alot about them. Brother, you gave me a laugh, believe me.
Can I humbly ask you to pen down [type, to be precise] the names of the books you have read about Shia beliefs? Let me and others see that whether those books or articles are wrritten by Shia scholars or anti-Shia hordes who have nothing else to do in the lives except to declare Shia as infidels.
The points you raised further in your post with no references at all, clearly show your ignorance and lame knowledge of the Shia and its creeds and that where and when it first started. Either you have copy pasted these "enlightening" points from some anti-Shia website or took these points from some anti-Shia book which provided "major faults" and "reasons" to declare Shia "kaffir" according to your yardstick.
I do not want to waste my time by quoting each and every single point and refuting it in long paragraphs with or without suitable references. However, I would highlight few erros you have made in the "charge sheet".
According to your yardstick of Shirk and Bidda', you have declared all the Muslims whether Shia or Sunnis to be kaffirs except the Wahhabis whose agenda you are pursuing. You should have given a second thought before calling intercession, Ya Maula, Ya Muhammad or Ya Ali as something equal to Shirk. You should have given a second thought before accusing Shia of Bidda' because they pray in a different way from that of Ahl-as-Sunnah. Among the Ahl-as-Sunnah you have literally hundreds of differences as how to offer daily prayers and every group thinks he is correct. I suggest you to resolve these differences within the Sunni before calling Shia way of prayer 'a Biddah'.
As for the Hadith books which Shia have and the companians of the Prophet [pbuh] which they deem pious or impious, you have to go in detail and come on the common ground of discussion instead of accusing Shia of rejecting and thus not accepting what you deem to be correct and true. The books you deem authentic are not authentic in Shia sight and vice versa. Its like a Christian logic that wants to prove "Truth" of Christianity from their own Bible and prove Muslims wrong according to their biblical standards. This is not the way it works.
I think that post has become too long and might be inconvenient for you or others to read. So I end it here with a request to be sincere in your efforts and do not falsely accuse Shia of Kuffr or Shirk lest you yourself become one due to calling other Muslims with these labels. Dare not to divide Muslims and come on the common platform to pursue a heavenly goal or a noble cause and If you want to know about Shia and their beliefs, read the books written by Shia scholars specifically for this purpose or read the works of those who have accepted the Shia path among the Ahl-as-Sunnah.
With prayers for your guidance and success
Wasslam
I always pity nasibi clergy who do not teach their adherents the true meaning of Taqqiyah and left their adherents to be humiliated. anyhow, let me come to some of the points you mentioned.
Those who are Jalil al Qadr to you might not be in the eyes of a Shia (and vice versa). As for “authentic books of hadith full of their praise” is concern then would you like to cite those authentic “Shia” hadith books which are full of their praise?
That is merely your conjecture. Mahority of the humanity adopt 80% of the practises of their forefathers (in terms of religion) be it Muslim, Christian etc or the sects among Muslims like Shia Sunni etc. So this objection is itself objectionable.
First of all unlike Sunnies, Shias do not have “authentic books” rather “authentic hadiths”. Secondly, the Shia books would certainly be seems to you full of evil beliefs just like Sunni books would be to a Shia. So again, its your personal objection, nothing to do with Shia madhab in general.
There has been a detailed discussion on the topic of imamate right here in this forum. You just need to search back for that.
This objection is based on your ignorance about that “ciurcular thing” on which Shia perform Sajdah. The thing is called Sajdagah/Turbah/Khumrah, basically a mud since it is obligatory or you say it is Sunnah to perform sajdah on mud not on carpet. For proof, let me cite two traditions from your most authentic hadith books which your nasibi friends might have kept from you:
Sahih al-Bukhari Hadith: 1.376
** Narrates 'Abdullah bin Shaddad:Maimuna said, “Allah’s Apostle was praying while I was in my menses, sitting beside him and sometimes his clothes would touch me during his prostration.” Maimuna added, "He prayed on a Khumra (a small mat sufficient just for the forehead while prostrating during prayers).**
Sahih al-Bukhari Hadith: 1.378Narrated Maimuna: Allah’s Apostle used to pray on Khumra
As for saying Ya Ali, Ya Hussian, Ya Muhammad Rasool Allah, it is clear from your objection that you follow Salafi/Wahabi school of thought where “YA” used for other than Allah is considered shirk (due to sheer stupid logic) while Holy Quran and authentic Sunni books are evident that “YA” were also used for people who were not present in front of them. Abu Bakar called out “Ya Rasool Allah” right over the (dead) body of Holy Prophet [s].
As for your objection about the association of word “Maula” to Ali [as] is conerned, then again its your ignorance not the fault of Shias. If you think that only Allah can be referred as Maula then you need to read Holy Quran where Allah [swt] used same word for Prophet and believers too. Let me cite the translation of your favorite Salafi scholar:
he Meaning of The Noble Qur’an. Surah:5.Al-Ma’idah. 55. Verily, your Wali (Protector or Helper) is Allah, His Messenger, and the believers, - those who perform As-Salat (Iqamat-as-Salat), and give Zakat, and they bow down (submit themselves with obedience to Allah in prayer). Translated by Dr. MT Al-Hilali & Dr. MM Khan. V7.9
Btw, according to some tafseer books the word believers in this word refers to Ali [as]. But for clear-cut tradition in terms of Ali [as] being Maula, let me cite the most famous tradition:
[FONT=‘Times New Roman’]Prophet (PBUH) held up the hand of Ali and said: "Whoever I am his leader (Mawla), Ali is his leader (Mawla).
**(1)**Sunan Ibn Maja, v1, pp 12,43 **(2) **Sahih Tirmidhi, v2, & p298, v5, p63 **(3) **Tarikh al kabir by al- Bukhari v. 1, p. 375, v. 4 p. 193
If shia way of offering salaat is Bidat near you, then forget other things just talk about your objection about Shia praying on Khumrah/Turbah, I have shown you authentic tradition that Holy Prophet [s] used to perform salat that way, Do you perform it in this manner ? If not then who is doing Bidat?
The concept of Ismah (infallibility) of Imams of Ahlulbayt [as] cannot be regarded as Bidah since this isnt against Islamic injunctions if it is then being your proof/
The books of Bukhari etc are rejected by Shias for a reason that the author of the book was not Shia. That is really a pathetic objection believe me. Will you accept the books written by Shias? If not then why do you expect Shias to accept your books? Can a Wahabi start accepting brelvi books and vice versa?
I always pity nasibi clergy who do not teach their adherents the true meaning of Taqqiyah and left their adherents to be humiliated. anyhow, let me come to some of the points you mentioned.
Those who are Jalil al Qadr to you might not be in the eyes of a Shia (and vice versa). As for “authentic books of hadith full of their praise” is concern then would you like to cite those authentic “Shia” hadith books which are full of their praise?
That is merely your conjecture. Mahority of the humanity adopt 80% of the practises of their forefathers (in terms of religion) be it Muslim, Christian etc or the sects among Muslims like Shia Sunni etc. So this objection is itself objectionable.
First of all unlike Sunnies, Shias do not have “authentic books” rather “authentic hadiths”. Secondly, the Shia books would certainly be seems to you full of evil beliefs just like Sunni books would be to a Shia. So again, its your personal objection, nothing to do with Shia madhab in general.
There has been a detailed discussion on the topic of imamate right here in this forum. You just need to search back for that.
This objection is based on your ignorance about that “ciurcular thing” on which Shia perform Sajdah. The thing is called Sajdagah/Turbah/Khumrah, basically a mud since it is obligatory or you say it is Sunnah to perform sajdah on mud not on carpet. For proof, let me cite two traditions from your most authentic hadith books which your nasibi friends might have kept from you:
Sahih al-Bukhari Hadith: 1.376 Narrates 'Abdullah bin Shaddad:Maimuna said, “Allah’s Apostle was praying while I was in my menses, sitting beside him and sometimes his clothes would touch me during his prostration.” Maimuna added, "He prayed on a Khumra (a small mat sufficient just for the forehead while prostrating during prayers).
Sahih al-Bukhari Hadith: 1.378 Narrated Maimuna: Allah’s Apostle used to pray on Khumra.
As for saying Ya Ali, Ya Hussian, Ya Muhammad Rasool Allah, it is clear from your objection that you follow Salafi/Wahabi school of thought where “YA” used for other than Allah is considered shirk (due to sheer stupid logic) while Holy Quran and authentic Sunni books are evident that “YA” were also used for people who were not present in front of them. Abu Bakar called out “Ya Rasool Allah” right over the (dead) body of Holy Prophet [s].
As for your objection about the association of word “Maula” to Ali [as] is conerned, then again its your ignorance not the fault of Shias. If you think that only Allah can be referred as Maula then you need to read Holy Quran where Allah [swt] used same word for Gebrail and believers too. Let me cite the translation of your favorite Salafi scholar:
The Meaning of The Noble Qur’an. Surah:66.At-Tahrim.
*If you two (wives of the Prophet SAW, namely 'Aishah and Hafsah radhiallahu’anhu) turn in repentance to Allah, (it will be better for you), your hearts are indeed so inclined (to oppose what the Prophet SAW likes), but if you help one another against him (Muhammad SAW), then verily, Allah is his Maula (Lord, or Master, or Protector, etc.), and Jibrael (Gabriel), and the righteous among the believers, and furthermore, the angels are his helpers. *
*Translated by *Dr.MT Al-Hilali & Dr. MM Khan. V7.9
Btw, according to some tafseer books the word “righteous among the believers” in this verse refers to Ali [as]. But for clear-cut tradition in terms of Ali [as] being Maula, let me cite the most famous tradition:
Prophet (PBUH) held up the hand of Ali and said: "Whoever I am his Mawla, Ali is his leader Mawla.
(1) Sunan Ibn Maja, v1, pp 12,43 (2**) **Sahih Tirmidhi, v2, & p298, v5, p63 **(3) **Tarikh al kabir by al- Bukhari v. 1, p. 375, v. 4 p. 193]
If shia way of offering salaat is Bidat near you, then forget other things just talk about your objection about Shia praying on Khumrah/Turbah, I have shown you authentic tradition that Holy Prophet [s] used to perform salat that way, Do you perform it in this manner ? If not then who is doing Bidat?
The concept of Ismah (infallibility) of Imams of Ahlulbayt [as] cannot be regarded as Bidah since this isnt against Islamic injunctions if it is then being your proof. As for Ahlulbayt [as] being wajib ul ita`at, then it again depends on prophetic traditions which can also be found in your school of thought as well. For example:
"I am leaving you two weighty things, if you follow them you will never go astray, they are the Qur’an and my Ahlul’bayt
*1.Sunan al-Tirmidhi, v5, page 662-663 * 2. Jalaluddin Suyuti declares it Sahih in Al-Jami al-Saghir Volume 3 page 14. 3. Al-Hafidh Haythami, declares all subnarrators thuqat in Majma’uz-Zawaid Vol 9 p 165.
The books of Bukhari etc are rejected by Shias for a reason that the author of the book was not Shia. That is really a pathetic objection believe me. Will you accept the books written by Shias? If not then why do you expect Shias to accept your books? Can a Wahabi start accepting brelvi books and vice versa?
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