Shia:Is It Permitted To Believe That Ali Ra Is God?

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Is It Permitted To Believe That Ali Ra Is God?

It is in Allama_Talib_Jauhri’s book “Insan Ma’asir Aur Quran (1997)”](Ziaraat.com - Online Books)page # 23.

Original picture of that book.

“Ali’s hand is Allah’s hand. Ali’s foot is Allah’s foot”

Further more he said,

Page # 23 and 24

“Ali RA shoe became old and wretched. He was mending it. That shoe was very badly wretched that other people felt shame after looking at that. Abdullah ibn-e Abbas said to Ali RA, “for how long will you mend your shoe? Throw it and get another.” Ali RA looked at Ibn-e Abbas and said,” This shoe is better than your throne of leadership. Your throne is the one on which humans step. This is the shoe in which God puts his foot." :confused: :aq:

Now calling any human a God is allowed or not in Shiaism? :konfused:

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Re: Shia:Is It Permitted To Believe That Ali Ra Is God?

May be its not taken literally

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Re: Shia:Is It Permitted To Believe That Ali Ra Is God?

Don't take that stuff literally alright. And always use multiple references to be sure of what the statement really was/is.

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Re: Shia:Is It Permitted To Believe That Ali Ra Is God?

Are you muslim?Did not you ever read surah akhlas ,if so How can you even thik this too?

We have only an Only One GOD Allah.

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Re: Shia:Is It Permitted To Believe That Ali Ra Is God?

I haven't read the book, I'm going to have to read up on it but I am positive it is not a literal thing. As far as I know about the body parts, in Bukhari, the ahadith attribute to Allah (swt) having body parts whereas Shia books and the Qur'aan say that God does in a metaphorical way - need to read up on that more.

Ali (as) is NOT God and we do NOT consider Nusayris to be Shia.

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Re: Shia:Is It Permitted To Believe That Ali Ra Is God?

There is lot of poetic influence in may of the books written specifically from "fazaa'el' point of view. This could be one of those things.

One thing you have to understand that hardly anyone (any normal shia) would make such statements part of his aqeeda. Point is, it may be a statement from Shia book but i dont think this is part of their eeman.

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Re: Shia:Is It Permitted To Believe That Ali Ra Is God?

^Exactly.

There had been loads of crap said in early Shia books as well about the ideology of Imamiyat. Some even takes it beyond Prophethood. Even to prove divinity of Imams, the writers go beyond sanity and claim that they don't born through birth canal but from the thighs of their mothers. Piece of Garbage. Those pure souls are free of any filth associated with them. They were human beings just like Prophet SAW himself, Ahle Bait and Sahaba.

I don't think majority of Shia believe in those factitious and baseless claims. Eventhough they are said to be the saying of Imams, but any sane person would know that they are made up statements.

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Re: Shia:Is It Permitted To Believe That Ali Ra Is God?

^yes there are many fabrications.........in Sunni 'sahi' books you will find many ridiculous narrations.........such as adults being breastfed......... people peeping at ladies while the wives of the Prophet while they r answering the call of nature.........Prophet being bewitched.......... and pretty much all the material Salman Rushdi used or the people who wrote blasphemous books such as "Rangeela Rasool" nauzobillah...... root of the problem is that they cannot refute words and reports of Bukhari and Co at any circumstance and do not permit to scrutinizer or criticize such reports.

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Re: Shia:Is It Permitted To Believe That Ali Ra Is God?

Salam
Thats more close to reality brother, a good academic book to study early extremist shia beliefs would be "Extremist shia" by Matti Moosa.Later when the imami doctrine was formulated by the pupils of Jafir as Sadiq many such extremist beliefs were edited out but several of them reemerged in a more sanitized version under the safavid revival and were enshirned by their scholars like Baqir Majlisi.

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Re: Shia:Is It Permitted To Believe That Ali Ra Is God?

I dont know what purpose this question would serve apart from inciting anti-twelver hatred, if calling Ali a God was allowed dont u think twelvers would have been declared non-muslims ?

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Re: Shia:Is It Permitted To Believe That Ali Ra Is God?

My dear brother:

Human in the superior creature of of Allah , some time we see some thing which is only illusion, if we trust on eys ,than it will be foolish act. therefore Allah subhana Wa tallah inform the human no believe and spread any quote without deep study. You have read the above given ref. with wordly meening.

We shia (Athna Ashari) believe that (There is no god but Allah- and Mohammad is the messenger of Allah & Ali is Wali Ullah). Let me quote Imam Ali (as) Sermon for your if you really keen to know the above.

Praise is due to Allah whose worth cannot be described by speakers, whose bounties cannot be counted by calculators and whose claim (to obedience) cannot be satisfied by those who attempt to do so, whom the height of intellectual courage cannot appreciate, and the divings of understanding cannot reach; He for whose description no limit has been laid down, no eulogy exists, no time is ordained and no duration is fixed. He brought forth creation through His Omnipotence, dispersed winds through His Compassion, and made firm the shaking earth with rocks.

The foremost in religion is the acknowledgement of Him, the perfection of acknowledging Him is to testify Him, the perfection of testifying Him is to believe in His Oneness, the perfection of believing in His Oneness is to regard Him Pure, and the perfection of His purity is to deny Him attributes, because every attribute is a proof that it is different from that to which it is attributed and everything to which something is attributed is different from the attribute. Thus whoever attaches attributes to Allah recognises His like, and who recognises His like regards Him two; and who regards Him two recognises parts for Him; and who recognises parts for Him mistook Him; and who mistook Him pointed at Him; and who pointed at Him admitted limitations for Him; and who admitted limitations for Him numbered Him.
Whoever said in what is He, held that He is contained; and whoever said on what is He held He is not on something else. He is a Being but not through phenomenon of coming into being. He exists but not from non-existence. He is with everything but not in physical nearness. He is different from everything but not in physical separation. He acts but without connotation of movements and instruments. He sees even when there is none to be looked at from among His creation. He is only One, such that there is none with whom He may keep company or whom He may miss in his absence.

May Allah guide us

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Re: Shia:Is It Permitted To Believe That Ali Ra Is God?

^ Reminds me of..

Al Kafi, Volume 1, Hadith 242

Imam Ali (as) said..

All praise be to God the One, the Samad (sought by all) the Unique and the One who has not been created out of anything pre-existing and who has not created anything out of anything which existed before Him but He created everything by His Own Might. Different are things from Him and different is He from things. He has no attributes that can be comprehended. Nor He has any limit that can be specified or exemplified. In linguistic sublimity and eloquence, tongues have become dumb and speechless in describing His attributes. And circumlocution in respect of His attributes leads one to a blind alley. And in trying to specify His kingdom, the best schools of thought have become bewildered. All conceivable explanations have become ineffective in going deep into His kingdom. Volumes of deliberations have failed in reaching even the borders of the knowledge about Him. Mysterious curtains intervene in understanding the most superficial layer of His subtleties.

Thus hallowed be God Who can neither be touched by the most daring nor intuitively reached by the deepest insight. Exalted is He for whom there is no measure of time, no extent of vastness and no limit to description. Purified is He whose beginning has no beginning nor His end any end, nor is there any annihilation terminating Him, Glorified is He. He is as He has described Himself. He specified the boundaries of all things at the time of creating them and completely banned the possibility of His resembling things or things resembling Him. He never contained His Supreme Self in anything so that it could be said that He exists within that thing. Nor has He been apart from things so that it could be said that He is part of that thing, He has never been lost from things so that the question of ‘Where is He’ could arise. Rather, He the Glorified has encompassed the things by His knowledge and perfected them and computed them in His memory. Even the things hidden behind the curtains of the atmosphere, and the deep slumber which occurs in the hidden darkness and whatever there is in the high heavens and the low earth are not hidden from his All-Encompassing knowledge. For everything there is a custodian and a keeper and all things are surrounded by other things and He (God, the Almighty, the Majestic) encompasses all things which surround them.

God is the One, the Unique, the Besought by everyone, whom the passage of time does not change and He is never tired by the constructions or the creations of anything. Whatever He willed He said, “Be” and it came into being. He started creating whatever He created without there being any precedent for it and without any fatigue and any planning. All the makers of things made those things out of something but God made His creations out of nothing. Every scholar acquired knowledge before their creation. Thus there was no addition in His knowledge because of their coming into existence. His knowledge about them, before their coming into existence, is the same as His knowledge after their coming into being. He never made things strengthen His control over them. All creation is sustained and nurtured by Him and all are humble slaves before Him.

Glorified is He who never feels weary in creating what He wills, nor in nurturing whatever He has created nor has He ended creating because of His inability or slackness. He knew what He created and created what He knew. Whatever He created was not out of deliberating on any new knowledge. Nor does any doubt arise for Him regarding the things He has not created, but (what He created and what He did not) was according to His inviolable decisions, firm knowledge and exact command. He made Himself unique in His lordship, specific in his Oneness, earmarked Glory, He remained matchless in praise and exalted in His Glory, He is far above parenthood purified from and sanctified against any feminine touch.

He is too Great and too Mighty to seek proximity with any participant. Thus no one is in opposition to Him among the things He has created, nor is there any partner in His kingdom. He is the One, the Unique, the Besought of all, the Eternal, the Everlasting, the Lord of space, Who has always been and Who shall always be, the Eternally All Alone before the beginning of the sense and conceptions and measures of ‘Time’ and after the end of all affairs. He will be neither finished nor exhausted. In this way I describe my Lord. Thus, there is no god except God. Great is He and how Great! Glorified is He and how glorified! Almighty is He and how Almighty! He is far too above what the wrong-doers say about him, far above…

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Re: Shia:Is It Permitted To Believe That Ali Ra Is God?

plz can you tell me who was called SAIF-ALLAH by PROPHET MOHAMMAD S.A.W.S??????

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Re: Shia:Is It Permitted To Believe That Ali Ra Is God?

Dude, I think you are another case of a non-shia whose getting Shia's confused with Nusayri's....they outrightly believe Hazrat Ali (sa) as GOD. No Shia believes that.

Like others have suggested, dont take these literally, and use multiple references first.

Beautiful!

^ Probably the same guy he said ‎"Man kunto maula, fa Ali-un Maula" about...

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Re: Shia:Is It Permitted To Believe That Ali Ra Is God?

Its related to such that when a person becomes very close to ALLAH and ALLAH comes inside that human being and there is an ayat about this also, i cannot remember it correctly but it goes like, ALLAH says I become your hands, i become your tongue… it was something like this, i cannot remember the exact ayat from Koran.

So here this concept is being talked about.
I wish i could quote that ayat, i cant seem to remember it.

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Re: Shia:Is It Permitted To Believe That Ali Ra Is God?

First of all let me point out something, the meaning of Allah SWT hand is not a literal meaning. Quran has referred Allah’s hand on various occassons, Following are some verses for reference:

2:275] Those who swallow down usury cannot arise except as one whom Shaitan has prostrated by (his) touch does rise. That is because they say, trading is only like usury; and Allah has allowed trading and forbidden usury. To whomsoever then the admonition has come from his Lord, then he desists, he shall have what has already passed, and his affair is in the hands of Allah; and whoever returns (to it)-- these arc the inmates of the fire; they shall abide in it.

3:26] Say: "O Allah! Lord of Power (And Rule), Thou givest power to whom Thou pleasest, and Thou strippest off power from whom Thou pleasest: Thou enduest with honour whom Thou pleasest, and Thou bringest low whom Thou pleasest: In Thy hand is all good. Verily, over all things Thou hast power.

3:73] “And believe no one unless he follows your religion.” Say: “True guidance is the Guidance of Allah: (Fear ye) Lest a revelation be sent to someone (else) Like unto that which was sent unto you? or that those (Receiving such revelation) should engage you in argument before your Lord?” Say: “All bounties are in the hand of Allah: He granteth them to whom He pleaseth: And Allah careth for all, and He knoweth all things.”

5:64] And the Jews say: The hand of Allah is tied up! Their hands shall be shackled and they shall be cursed for what they say. Nay, both His hands are spread out, He expends as He pleases; and what has been revealed to you from your Lord will certainly make many of them increase in inordinacy and unbelief; and We have put enmity and hatred among them till the day of resurrection; whenever they kindle a fire for war Allah puts it out, and they strive to make mischief in the land; and Allah does not love the mischief-makers.

**Rather than just quoting a phrase from the book would you please care to quote the context he used these phrases in the book? I can pick and choose a phrase from any book and try to manipulate it to present my ideology. However, it is wise if you quote the other text or context in the book where he presented this argument. Was there any where in the book where Hazrat Ali AS was presented as nazubillah God..???In the verse 5:64 I have mentioned above, if I just quote the part **“The hand of Allah is tied up” would you use it claim that quran preaches the hand of Allah SWT is nauzubillah tied up. Please refrain from just quoting the parts of an argument without providing the whole context.

In regards to your question about shoes, I would like to quote a similar narration in Nahjul Balagah…

During the days of 'Ali’s caliphate, 'Abd Allah ibn al-'Abbas once came to him. He found 'Ali mending his old shoes with his own hand. Turning to Ibn al-'Abbas, 'Ali asked him, “How much do you think is this shoe worth?” “Nothing,” replied Ibn al-'Abbas. 'Ali said, “But the same shoe is of more worth to me than authority over you if it were not to me a means for establishing justice, recovering the rights of the deprived, and wiping out evil practices.” (Nahj-ul Balagha, Khutab 33)

http://www.al-islam.org/nahjul/33.htm

I am not an Alim, correct me if I am wrong but I apprehended from this sermon that Hazrat Ali AS is implying that his shoe is worth more to him than an authority over people if it didn’t serve an opportunity to establish justice, recovering the rights of deprived and wiping out the evil practices. In other words I think he is applying his shoe is worth more to him than a worldy leadership unless it gives him the means to accomplish the divine tasks. mentioned

Did the book you are reading provide any reference about the shoe narration? Are you reading it actually from the book or from an unauthentic website?

If you really want to read on shias I would suggest refer to the following website. There are alot of unauthentic websites out there which promotes hateredness and does not represent the true believes.

www.al-islam.org

Now just to answer your question. No shias don’t believe Hazrat Ali AS to be nauzubillah God. He is our maula as stated by Prophet at Ghadeer Khum
“For whoever I am his Leader (mawla), 'Ali is his Leader (mawla).”
www.al-islam.org/ghadir

He is our first Imam.
http://www.al-islam.org/encyclopedia/chapter1b/7.html

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Re: Shia:Is It Permitted To Believe That Ali Ra Is God?

Nope, its not allowed in shiaism. Does that answer your question?

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Re: Shia:Is It Permitted To Believe That Ali Ra Is God?

Dear All!

Assalam-o-Alaikum!

I have been out of the forum for more than a year or so. Just wanted  to share my humble thoughts with you.

Generally speaking, all the Muslims respect **Hazrat Ali (KAW) **in  one way or the other as he is unique in so many ways. Probably he is  the only personality who is included in all the following groups:
  1. Prophet's Family or **Ahle Bait *2. Prophet's Companions or *As'hab-e-Rasool (SAW) *3. Four Righteous Caliphs or *Khulfa-e-Rashideen *4. Five Sacred Souls or *Punj Tan Pak *5. Ten Blessed Companions or *Ashra-e-Mubashira *6. Twelve Imams or *Aima-e-Asna-Ashria *7. Fourteen Sinless Souls or **Chahar-da-Masoomeen

*** Different Islamic Sects include **Hazrat Ali (KAW) *in some of the above mentioned categories as per their belief. Despite the respect by all, anybody other than *Ahle Sunnah *or *Ahle Hadith *who bears allegiance to *Hazrat Ali (KAW) *is labeled as *SHIA. What people don't understand is the fact since 1st century of Hijra, anybody who ever claimed to have any admiration, adoration or sympathy was put in one category called **SHIA *without giving any thought to their beliefs and teachings. So was the case with *NUSAIRIS *of *SYRIA *who were labeled as **SHIA* and who consider **Hazrat Ali (KAW) *to be *God or God Incarnate. *These *Nusairis *are however considered non Muslim even by the contemporary *SHIAS *i.e., the *Asna Asharias *(those who believe in 12 Imams) who do not consider *Hazrat Ali (KAW) *to be *God or God Incarnate**.

Wassalam.