[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by rehman1: *
I think Iran is the source of this problem.
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tum aur tum jaisay jaahil log are the problem
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Originally posted by ravage: *
i disagree with imdad. it is not "Sunni Pakistan" but rapidly-wahabbifying-Pakistan that is intent on wiping out shias. Most *Sunnis I know abhor the violence.
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Sunni religion in Pakistan is in Great danger. This was never before since 1300 years in this history of Sunni religion. HIDDEN AGENDA - RED ALERT FOR THEM
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iss say to hum india main hi achay thay
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I disagree
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*Originally posted by Enforcer: *
This is just the reaction the want, how can you al be sure this is not a polt from some sedicious people who want to create disharmony in the countrym, and the nation to force musharaff to resign... How can you even think "He should resign" that is propostrous.
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read my post again yar! I said I cant believe there are some people who are full of hate. Why would anyone do this, unless he is full of hate, even if its a non-Pakistani!. And where did I write Musharraf should resign? What have you been reading?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Imdad Ali: *
He should resign because he is an incompetent fool. The sunni republic of pakistan will not be content unless all shias are dead.
I call upon all responsible people in pakistan to burn down ghq, the source of all terror.
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You are full of $hit Imdad, Sunnis don't want Shias dead even in Iraq where they fought a ten year war. The civil war you desire will never happen in Pakistan while the people still have a voice.
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*Originally posted by Sheraz CT: *
iss say to hum india main hi achay thay
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i agree at least it wont be muslims doing the killing of other muslims.
a disgraceful act. may allah punish the ppl who did this.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Mr Xtreme: *
You are full of $hit Imdad, Sunnis don't want Shias dead even in Iraq where they fought a ten year war. The civil war you desire will never happen in Pakistan while the people still have a voice.
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Who is killing shias in iraq and pakistan? Angels descended from heaven? Actions speak louder then words and right now the words of sunni pakistan are meanginless to the shias.
is it leading us to a civil war? i hope not because then it would be a lot more death and destruction and india and iran want this in pakistan so they can divide the country among themselves...iran wanting parts or whole of baluchistan, india trying to gobble up singh, and punjab and kashmir...all will be happy...
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ThandyMazaq: *
is it leading us to a civil war? i hope not because then it would be a lot more death and destruction and india and iran want this in pakistan so they can divide the country among themselves...iran wanting parts or whole of baluchistan, india trying to gobble up singh, and punjab and kashmir...all will be happy...
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you have got to be fkin kidding me.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by waleed: *
i agree at least it wont be muslims doing the killing of other muslims.
a disgraceful act. may allah punish the ppl who did this.
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Waleed ji, I think we should not forget that people who are killing innocent Shias are not being killed by Sunni Muslims, they are simply being targeted by terrorists. As far as I know, my neighbors are Sunni Muslims, and never did I had any problems in my entire life, on the contrary they would actually help us in our majalis and stuff.
heres the profile of a moderate star on the LJ/SSP horizon. Admits to 21 killings.
Snippets (forewarning.. doesnt mention freakin Iran) :
Short history for those who dont know it, again, Baluchistan’s attraction in Iran’s eyes doesnt figure as a theory.:
..
The story of sectarianism in Pakistan is as bloody as the fate of the leaders of the SSP. In 1985, the then military dictator, General Zia-ul-Haq, extended his support to the formation of a Sunni militant group in the small town of Jhang, associated with the romantic folk tale of Heer Ranjha. Twenty-nine leaders formed the group called the Anjuman Sipah-e- Sahaba (ASS), and Haq Nawaz Jhangvi, a former leader of the Jamiat Ulema-e-Islam (JUI) became its founding chief. (The party subsequently changed its name to the Sipah-e-Sahaba Pakistan).
Zia-ul-Haq wanted to counter the increasing strength of Shia groups motivated by Imam Khomeini's Islamic revolution, who were agitating against his Islamist regime for its controversial Islamic laws, aimed at marginalising minority groups like the Shias.
The Sipah-e-Sahaba or the Army of Prophet Mohammad's companions, was a radical party from the start. It demanded that Pakistan be officially declared a Sunni Muslim state, as Iran is a Shia state.
Within no time, the group expanded its power base. It established around 500 offices across Pakistan, scores of madrassas, and its cadres grew to 100,000 hardcore militants. The party drew its support mainly from Sargodha, Jhang, Bahawalpur, Multan and Muzaffargarh in the central and southern Punjab and Karachi in Sindh.
The party also reportedly managed to set up 17 clandestine branches abroad, located in the UAE, England and Canada. Sources disclose these have remained a major source of party funding, apart from donations from Saudi Arabia.
**As the party grew, so too did its activities. Groups of hit men were formed called "killers of infidels," who went about murdering scores of doctors, officials, diplomats and ordinary folk who had just their Shia identities in common.**
In **1990**, Iranian consul general, Sadeq Ganji, was killed, and in January 1997 the Iranian Cultural Centre in Lahore was attacked and set on fire. Seven people, including an Iranian diplomat, were killed and the incident sparked off a serious diplomatic row between Islamabad and Tehran. The targeting of Iranians was apparently meant to convey the message to Shia militants that not even their "patrons" were safe.
In the mid '90s, when Punjab and Karachi were bleeding after the worst wave of sectarian clashes and tit-for-tat targeted killings, the authorities, for the first time, recognised that the sectarian groups were getting out of hand and attempted to crack down on them.
By then, the SSP had made inroads into the hardline Islamic militia of the Taliban, which introduced a strict Sunni Islamic system in Afghanistan.
** "The Taliban were and still are natural allies of Pakistan's Sunni militants as they are against Iran and brutally targeted the Shia Hazaras in Afghanistan. For them, it was a natural ideological bonding on the basis of anti-Shia rivalry," says a security official, familiar with the working and hierarchy of sectarian groups. "Friendship with the Taliban and entering Afghanistan has opened the doors for Sipah-e-Sahaba militants to international terrorist outfits," he maintains.**
In the wake of the government crackdown in the mid-'90s, the SSP split into two. The dangerous and deadly Lashkar-e-Jhangvi made its appearance with the stated agenda of targeting Shias. It was led by Riaz Basra, who faulted the main party for having strayed from its core ideology. At the same time, hordes of Sunni militants from both groups went to Afghanistan for training in a camp in Sirobi, near Kabul, run by the Taliban minister, Maulvi Hameedullah, where these young men were trained in carrying out suicide missions and making explosives.
**Shia militancy grew in response to the rise of Sunni extremism. In the 1980s, the Tehrik-e-Nifaz-e-Fiqh Jaffria (TNFJ) was formed with an aim to implement a Shia Islamic system similar to that of the Khomeini-led Islamic regime in Iran. The party later changed its name to the Tehrik-e-Jaffria Pakistan (TJP).
The militancy in Shia ranks took a new turn in 1993, when Mureed Abbas Yazdani created the Sipah-e-Mohammad Pakistan (SMP), convinced that the TJP would not allow its young cadres to physically attack the Sunni militants of the SSP. The SMP attracted thousands of enraged TJP party workers and members of the Imamia Students Organisation. According to an intelligence estimate, the strength of the group grew to 30,000, with the village of Thokar Niaz Beg on the outskirts of Lahore as its headquarters.**
Differences eventually created another faction which led to internecine clashes, and now SMP cadres operate on their own. Many are disgruntled and left the party after a scandal erupted, concerning Tehrik chief, Allama Sajid Naqvi's marriage to a teenager.
..
A more upto date version of the current elements of terrorism in Pakistan.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Sheraz CT: *
iss say to hum india main hi achay thay
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this incident is completely barbaric and the animals behind this should be executed in public to set an example for all other like-minded scum.
regardless of that, your above comment is in extremely poor taste. granted we have problems, but they are OUR problems. it is our job to fix them with education, dialogue, compromise and understanding. I know you feel angry, I wish I could do something practical to make you feel better. but I will say this - most Sunni Pakistanis (I hate to make petty distinctions like this) have nothing but good will and respect for their Shia brethern. so, please avoid painting all Sunnis with the same brush and making rash statements.
Sambrialian,
I don’t necessarily support Sheraz’s statement but you have to understand the level of insecurity and persecution complex that has set in Pakistan’s Shia communities.
There have been many high profile attacks on innocent Shias in the past few years yet not one top figure has been arrested. This time too with the Karachi Imambargah killing, the police have traced it to SSP (http://www.dawn.com/2004/05/15/top6.htm)
So why is SSP still allowed to contest elections under a new name?
I fully understand where you are coming from. Overwhelming majority of Guppies are fair minded. But still our country has hate filled jahils who think that Shia are kafir and are taught that it is their life’s duty to kill Shias.
I’m dejected. The people in power, civilian or military simply don’t seem to care enough. Musharraf can mobilize an army to prevent Shahbaz Sharif from entering Pakistan but says he is powerless with the sectarian monsters. Is it a matter ot lack of will or lack of ability? I think it is the former.
ok, so what can we do about it? there is not much point discussing the same thing over and over again. we all agree - Shia and Sunnis are Muslims and as such need to live side by side as brothers. but it seems like all this stuff has to be repeated over and over again to remind ourselves. we all know it and there is no point of repeating it here. we need to target the jaahil “kaafir”-killers and get this in their thick heads.
so, lets do something practical instead especially to target the last paragraph of your post. any suggestions? one thing I can think of is perhaps writing letters to express our outrage to major newspapers of Pakistan and have concerned guppies send them in en masse or at least sign and support them. maybe this will make Musharaff sahib wake up and notice that there is a country with problems that needs to be run. deporting a couple of corrupt thieves should be somewhat lower on his priority list in the face of such crisis as you said.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ThandyMazaq: *
is it leading us to a civil war? i hope not because then it would be a lot more death and destruction and india and iran want this in pakistan so they can divide the country among themselves...iran wanting parts or whole of baluchistan, india trying to gobble up singh, and punjab and kashmir...all will be happy...
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I agree.
take care
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by sambrialian: *
so, lets do something practical instead especially to target the last paragraph of your post. any suggestions? one thing I can think of is perhaps writing letters to express our outrage to major newspapers of Pakistan and have concerned guppies send them in en masse or at least sign and support them. maybe this will make Musharaff sahib wake up and notice that there is a country with problems that needs to be run. deporting a couple of corrupt thieves should be somewhat lower on his priority list in the face of such crisis as you said.
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Good idea. Im up for it.
Sambrialian,
If we had any system where the will of the people is taken into account, we would have been so better off. The sectarian poison probably affects what maybe 2 or at most 5% of the population maybe. Heck I did not personally know anyone who supported these haters.
Our problem is that our rulers have long been used to doing their own thing.
Had Musharraf and his lota gang had to face the people without manipulation, they would focus on the real problems.
That is why we need a real democracy. No Musharraf's lotacracy.
which govt has been able to contain the sectarian violence, since it started?
just wanted to know for my own information. gracias