Shia brothers please answer: Why would Umar/Uthman R.A compile Quran?

[shardmanny]

Re: Shia brothers please answer: Why would Umar/Uthman R.A compile Quran?

the popular shia beliefs (there isnt consensus, so there is many views, all are acceptable to shias)

1. order of compilation is wrong typically stated as: *As you know the Chapter al-Alaq is not at the beginning of the present Quran. Also Muslims agree that the verse (5:3) was among one of the last revealed verses of Quran (but not the very last one), yet it is not toward the end of the present Quran. This clearly proves that although the Quran that we have available is complete, it is not in the order that has been revealed. These few misplacements were done by some companions on purpose * order PLUS some misplacements. the text is not written to highlight the PLUS aspect (taqiyah) there are verses which the shias just cannot accept as one verse. they believe them to be two verses stuck togather

most who believe in the order distortion claim Ali RA presented the correct order but the companions rejected it
*There are also traditions from the Imams of Ahlul Bayt which tell us that
this was done by Imam Ali by order of the Holy Prophet (See al-Bihar, v92,
pp 40-41,48,51-52).

After he compiled this transcript, Imam Ali (AS) took it and presented itto the rulers who came after the Holy Prophet, and said: "Here is the bookof Allah, your Lord, in the order that was revealed to your Prophet."but they did not accept it and replied: "We have no need of this. We havewith us what you possess." Thereupon, Imam Ali (AS) took the transcriptback and informed them that they will never see it again.

*remember with this position the shias say there is no tahreef of addition or ommission
other views

1. Quran was compiled during the life of the Prophet SAW, in book form typically stated as: *The Holy Qur'an was compiled during the lifetime of Rasulollah (S). Rasulollah (S) ordered Imam Ali (AS) to compile the Qur'an according to the structure and order that was specified by Allah Almighty. When the compilation of the Qur'an as a whole was completed, Rasulollah (S) verified its content and order personally. The Qur'an we have today is the same as that which was verified by Rasulollah (S); nothing more and nothing less

*
3. there is distortion

this view is oppressed within the shia by the oppressors (sunnis) since we would make takfir on them, when their goal is to be accepted by sunnis

the direct 'hadiths' from their infallible imams point to this conclusion

typically:
*"Narrated Maysar from Abu Ja'far [as]: If it wasn't for the adding and deleting in the Book of Allah, our right (in Imamah - leadership) would've been clear for anyone with a sound mind".

scholar:
Know, that the truth which there is no way around it, because of the multi-narrations (mutawatir) and other, is that the Qur'an which we have in our hands today, has suffered some changes after the Messenger of Allah [pbuh]. That those who collected it after him, have dropped and deleted many words and verses, and that the protected Qur'an from such changes and agreeable to the revelation of Allah Ta'ala is the one which was collected by Ali [as] and guarded until it reached his son al-Hasan [as] and so on until it ended in the possession of al-Qa'im (Mahdi) [as] who has it with him today. *

[MAKRANI]

Re: Shia brothers please answer: Why would Umar/Uthman R.A compile Quran?

^ Wow what was that. Tried reading it ten times from every angle but nothing made sense. Can you try again and make it simple for rest of us?

[smooth_guy]

Re: Shia brothers please answer: Why would Umar/Uthman R.A compile Quran?

Thanks everyone for contribution. You guys answered my questions.

Poor me I didn't read the other online forums. I learned something new which I don't know why I was never introduced to by my Shia fellows.
Shardmanny, thanks for pointing it out. I am seeing all kind of diversion of the same question on different sites. Instead of answering the question, they are quoting hadith from Sunni books (which they never bother, unless it helps them).

[Nussairee]

Re: Shia brothers please answer: Why would Umar/Uthman R.A compile Quran?

^
“And hold fast by the covenant of Allah all together and be not disunited, and remember the favor of Allah on you when you were enemies, then He united your hearts so by His favor you became brethren; and you were on the brink of a pit of fire, then He saved you from it, thus does Allah make clear to you His communications that you may follow the right way.” (Aal Imran: 103)

Do not read online forums and instead read Quran and focus on hadiths that can help u improve as a person and bring u closer to your Lord…if u hear someone…be it scholars or a layman…talk abt these differences and creating disunion then remind them of the verse above…disunity is a sign of the days of jahilliya as u can see in the above verse…I am a Shia and in real life if I hear a Shia mock Sunni Muslims or any other Muslim I think within about the above verse and gather courage to stand up to them and confront them…making my point staying within the ikhlaaq…My childhood mate is a hardcorse salafi and from a very prominent salafi family…and we have discussed and debated these issues for years…yet we remain the best of mates…he comes to my home for majalis and borrows Shia books of me…and I gather my references from his father’s library…
the point of this tit-for-tat discussion and arguments here by me was to show tht these arguments r useless and futile…it seems that the whole world know it and but us Pakistanis who r yet to learn this…India has the same amount of sects as us and they do not have the ‘gundd’ that we have in Pakistan…anyway…

As for the topic of tahrif, if u wish to investigate and study it then here a couple of link that will help u…both of them from very prominent scholars of Shia school of thought…w’s

http://www.al-islam.org/tahrif_quran/
http://www.al-islam.org/protection/

[FairysAngel]

Re: Shia brothers please answer: Why would Umar/Uthman R.A compile Quran?

Only those tafaseer and ahadith are ok which are according to the quran.

What this means? Can you give an example/explain?

[MAKRANI]

Re: Shia brothers please answer: Why would Umar/Uthman R.A compile Quran?

Both of these answers are first time I am hearing. Please provide exact reference to the hadith book. It would be interesting to see what Sunni Ulema will have to say about it. I will consult one once you provide a concrete proof. So far it looks like a familiar routine rebuttal from Shias to divert the question.

Moreover, stick to the question and answer it. Was it not compiled during Umar./Uthman era and do you guys think the book in your house is in complete form and there is nothing hidden in that cave.

You never enlightened us with what your ulema had to say about those two hadiths.

If you look at any hadith in sahih books you will notice that majority of hadiths are listed with many variations. These hadiths were narrated by sahabas based on their memory hence you will notice variations. Just imagine same sahabas memorizing the Quran when it was not even in a book form and helping compile the holy book without any mistake. I think not.

It was definitely compiled in the Prophet's time by somebody who was called "talking Quran or Quran e natiq". When Prophet pbuh said I am leaving behind two things Book and my Ahlulbait he definitely did not mean different verses memorized by different people or the Book that was burned by third Caliph later. Prophet pbuh had the responsibility and he fulfilled it right, not just left it for others do it for him.

Please stop mocking Islam.

[MAKRANI]

Re: Shia brothers please answer: Why would Umar/Uthman R.A compile Quran?

Instead of answering the question, they are quoting hadith from Sunni books (which they never bother, unless it helps them).

Would you accept hadith quoted from our books? I know you won't that's why we quoted from your books so you can not deny.