Shia And Sunni Muslims

[P_GL]

Re: Shia And Sunni Muslims

@chacha_Ghalib

search the forums
this topic has been discussed at least a million times…

this thread is gonna turn into a shia sunni fight shortly… do not ask such questions in future

:halo: chachu i asked a simple Question and how a, i suppsoed to know its been disscused millions of times any ways thanks for your no help

[P_GL]

Re: Shia And Sunni Muslims

@Faisal

Actually this time khanbabax made a concession by saying that “according to **majority **of sunni scholars, …”. Usually his posts are prefixed by “according to **unanimous **opinion of scholars, …” even on highly debatable and contentious issues. So, all in all, I think its a step forward for khanbabax to realize that there are many sides to an issue. :k:

To answer your question P@GL!, shia and sunnis definitely do get married (to each other). I have seen several such marriages. By the way, there are no rituals or ceremonies to convert you from sunni to shias etc; so its not like these are two different religions. It all depends on the person. Some people take the shia-sunni differences very seriously and will never contemplate marrying a person who is not the follower of their own faith. Many others will look at other things to make this decision.

On the issue of what are the differences. Concepts of Tawheed and Risalat of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) are common. Shias have the concept of infallible imams, while sunnis (of ahl-e-sunnat wal’jammaa) do not have any such thing. The source of sharia based on ahadeeth also varies. In present day, shias have Ayatollahs who are the ultimate source of fatwas. Sunnis do not have any such thing, and pretty much many emminent scholars provide their opinions on various issues. There are differences on many other aspects too (how to pray salah, what time to open and close fast etc). Sunnis also have a bunch of different (and often conflicting) opinions on various issues. Some sunni groups are closer to shias on some topics like “waseela” etc, the others deem all such concepts as “biddat” (or innovation into islam). In summary, core concepts are mostly similar, but there are plenty of differences in other issues.

thank you for your VERY CLEAR answer

and another Question

just say a sunni Girl Gets Married to a Shia, would she then have to change the way she was taught how to read the Quran, becouse i was told by a freind that if its the sunni girl that marries the shia then the kids would follow the religion of the Father i.e they will be taught the way Shia’s Pray etc.

[cricketplaya]

Re: Shia And Sunni Muslims

Here is a scholarly answer to your question...

--

**
Are Shi’as considered Muslims? And can we pray behind them?**

In the name of Allah, Most Compassionate, Most Merciful,

According to the classical and the majority of contemporary scholars, there are two types of Shi’as: 

a) Those that hold beliefs which constitute disbelief (kufr), such as having the belief that the Qur’an has been altered, Sayyiduna Ali (Allah be pleased with him) is God, the angel Jibril made an error in descending with the revelation on the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) rather than Sayyiduna Ali (Allah be pleased with him), accusing Sayyida A’isha (Allah be pleased with her) of committing adultery or denying the Companionship (suhba) of Sayyiduna Abu Bakr (Allah be pleased with him).

The great Hanafi jurist, Imam Ibn Abidin (Allah have mercy on him) states:

“There is no doubt in the disbelief (kufr) of those that falsely accuse Sayyida A’isha (Allah be pleased with her) of adultery, deny the Companionship of Sayyiduna Abu Bakr ( Allah be pleased with him), believe that sayyiduna Ali (Allah be pleased with him) was God or that the angel Jibril mistakenly descended with the revelation (wahi) on the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give peace), etc… which is apparent Kufr and contrary to the teachings of the Qur’an.” (Radd al-Muhtar, 4/453).

Therefore, shi’as that hold such beliefs are without doubt out of the fold of Islam.

b) Those who do not hold beliefs that constitute Kufr, such as believing that Sayyiduna Ali (Allah be pleased with him) was the rightful first Caliph after the demise of the Messenger of Allah, slander other Companions (sahaba), belief in the twelve Imams, etc…

Such Shi’as can not be termed as out of the fold of Islam, rather they are considered to be severely deviated and transgressors (fisq).

Imam Ibn Abidin states:

“It is difficult to make a general statement and judge all the Shi’as to be non-believers, as the scholars have agreed on the deviation and defection of the deviated sects” (ibid).

It should be remarked here that some members of the Shi’a community display outwardly not to have beliefs that constitute Kufr, but keep these beliefs in their heart, which they call Taqiyya.

The case with such people is that if they did have such beliefs that constitute Kufr in their heart but outwardly denied them, then even though according to Allah and in the hereafter they will be regarded as non-Muslims, but we will judge them according to their outward statements and actions.

The Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) is reported to have said:

“I have been ordered to judge people according to their outward condition”

Keeping the above in mind, it becomes clear that to perform Salat behind Shi’as that are considered to be out of the fold of Islam is out of the question, and if one did pray behind such a person, his Salat will be invalid, thus must be repeated.

If the beliefs of a Shi’a is not to an extent that constitutes Kufr, then it is strongly disliked (makruh tahriman) to perform Salat behind him. Such Shi’as, even though they are not regarded as non-Muslims, are still considered to be deviated and transgressing (fisq), thus one must avoid performing Salat behind them.

Imam al-Haskafi (Allah have mercy on him) states in his Durr al-Mukhtar:

“It is Makruh to pray behind a sinner, blind person or a innovator, meaning the one who holds beliefs that are not known from the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace)”.

Imam Ibn Abidin (Allah have mercy on him) comments on this by saying:

“The reason for not praying behind a sinner (m. in action or belief) is that he takes matters of religion lightly. Also, in praying behind such people, we are showing them respect, whereas it is necessary to not show them respect…..It is reported in Sharh al-Munya that to perform Salat behind such people is Makruh Tahriman. According to Imam Malik and Imam Ahmad (in a narration), Salat behind them is not valid altogether” (Radd al-Muhtar, 1/560).

Therefore, Salat behind a Shi’a should not be performed. If one did so, it should be repeated, as it may not be valid.

And Allah Knows Best
Muhammad ibn Adam
Darul Iftaa
Leicester , UK

[mercenary2k]

Re: Shia And Sunni Muslims

I am Sunni Muslim

The only reason that Sunni Islam spread more rapidly than Shia Islam is because Umar had an army was able to conquer more territory and convert people to Sunni Islam than Ali.

If it had been the other way around and Ali had an Army then Shia Islam would be the dominant sect in Islam

[Faisal]

Re: Shia And Sunni Muslims

thank you for your VERY CLEAR answer :)

and another Question

just say a sunni Girl Gets Married to a Shia, would she then have to change the way she was taught how to read the Quran, becouse i was told by a freind that if its the sunni girl that marries the shia then the kids would follow the religion of the Father i.e they will be taught the way Shia's Pray etc. :)

To my knowledge, there is no difference in shia or sunni Quran (actually there is no such thing, as there is just ONE quran); or how to read it. The way salah is offered is a bit different, but even within sunnis there is more than one way of reading salah. Personally, I don't think any of these ways is actually wrong, they are just different.

[khaneh]

Re: Shia And Sunni Muslims

I am Sunni Muslim

The only reason that Sunni Islam spread more rapidly than Shia Islam is because Umar had an army was able to conquer more territory and convert people to Sunni Islam than Ali.

If it had been the other way around and Ali had an Army then Shia Islam would be the dominant sect in Islam

Please
first of all by saying all this , i dont think you are a sunni any more. Just think what are you saying all i understand from your statement is that ISLAM is spread on the force of a sword. Is that what you mean to say. Shame on you and your ideas. I dont think you are a sunni or even a shia. This is lamest reason i have ever heard from any one. this is stupidity, by saying this you are supporting more of non muslims ideas about islam. SHAME ON YOU. And please from now on dont call your self a sunni or a shia muslim because you deserve neither of this.

[mercenary2k]

Re: Shia And Sunni Muslims

^^ Then how exactly was Islam spread, through a brochure?

Christians did the same thing when they conquered the Americans or colonized Africa.

Arab armies conquered Persia and converted the people to Islam.

They tried to do the same thing to Byzantine Empire but failed. They succeeded in Spain but were stopped in France.

Get a reality check

[khaneh]

Re: Shia And Sunni Muslims

^^ Then how exactly was Islam spread, through a brochure?

Christians did the same thing when they conquered the Americans or colonized Africa.

Arab armies conquered Persia and converted the people to Islam.

They tried to do the same thing to Byzantine Empire but failed. They succeeded in Spain but were stopped in France.

Get a reality check

Ha ha ha brother why dont you go and post in the hollywood movies section about movies and things because you dont know nothing about islamic history. plz leave this one on the people who really know. And dont blame me for knowing nothing you dont know what i know and what i dont .......

[mercenary2k]

Re: Shia And Sunni Muslims

^^ please enlighten me....

I am a person who has a virtual library on books on Islam has less knowledge than someone educated by a jihal mullah with a loudspeaker

please give me a summary of how Islam spread

[khaneh]

Re: Shia And Sunni Muslims

^^ please enlighten me....

I am a person who has a virtual library on books on Islam has less knowledge than someone educated by a jihal mullah with a loudspeaker

please give me a summary of how Islam spread

First of all i am not any kind of maulana or some thing ok , and secondly i am not jahil think before what you speak for others. any ways i dont have to clarify u of my studies. i just wanted to answer your question here is a short answer if you want more let me know . Thanxs. May God Be Happy with you.

According to the Quran, "There is no compulsion in religion" (2:256), thus, no one can be forced to become a Muslim. While it is true that in many places where Muslim armies went to liberate people or the land, they did carry the sword as that was the weapon used at that time. However, Islam did not spread by the sword because in many places where there are Muslims now, in the Far East like Indonesia, in China, and many parts of Africa, there are no records of any Muslim armies going there. To say that Islam was spread by the sword would be to say that Christianity was spread by guns, F-16's and atomic bombs, etc., which is not true. Christianity spread by the missionary works of Christians. Ten-percent of all Arabs are Christians. The "Sword of Islam" could not convert all the non-Muslim minorities in Muslim countries. In India, where Muslims ruled for 700 years, they are still a minority. In the U.S.A., Islam is the fastest growing religion and has 6 million followers without any sword around.

ALLAH U AKBAR

[Lajawab]

Re: Shia And Sunni Muslims

I am Sunni Muslim

The only reason that Sunni Islam spread more rapidly than Shia Islam is because Umar had an army was able to conquer more territory and convert people to Sunni Islam than Ali.

If it had been the other way around and Ali had an Army then Shia Islam would be the dominant sect in Islam

Woah...

Is this your knowledge of history speaking or your ignorance? In either case, do elaborate so you don't spout such idiocy in front of others and make a fool of yourself...

[Lajawab]

Re: Shia And Sunni Muslims

^^ Then how exactly was Islam spread, through a brochure?

Christians did the same thing when they conquered the Americans or colonized Africa.

Arab armies conquered Persia and converted the people to Islam.

They tried to do the same thing to Byzantine Empire but failed. They succeeded in Spain but were stopped in France.

Get a reality check

The densest populations of Muslims is in Indonesia and Malaysia...How many Muslim armies entered these two countries?

[khaneh]

Re: Shia And Sunni Muslims

^^ please enlighten me....

I am a person who has a virtual library on books on Islam has less knowledge than someone educated by a jihal mullah with a loudspeaker

please give me a summary of how Islam spread

You are just ignorant and confused desi. Living in toronto does not make you more learned and scholar. Think twice before you speak. You are the exact kind of guys because of whom Muslims are in so much trouble. You call yourself muslims and speak a westren mind. Shame on you. Pittyfull person.

[khanbabax]

Re: Shia And Sunni Muslims

I am Sunni Muslim

The only reason that Sunni Islam spread more rapidly than Shia Islam is because Umar had an army was able to conquer more territory and convert people to Sunni Islam than Ali.

If it had been the other way around and Ali had an Army then Shia Islam would be the dominant sect in Islam

:D :D
Ignorance on thse forums.
Hazrat Ali r.a had nothing to do with deviant Shia beliefs.

[khanbabax]

Re: Shia And Sunni Muslims

According to Hanafi jurists its kufar to deny the Khilafat of Hazrat Abu Bakar r.a. and Hazrat Umer r,a. because there was Ijma of Sahabas on this.

[mercenary2k]

Re: Shia And Sunni Muslims

The densest populations of Muslims is in Indonesia and Malaysia...How many Muslim armies entered these two countries?

None.

Like I said in some parts initially when Arab armies spread to North Africa, Persia, and Spain and the Indian Sub-continent they brought Islam and converted the people.

In other places such as Indonesia, Malaysia, Mindanao and Africa, they send in missionaries who converted the people

I really dont know what is so hard for you to understand such a simple concept

[jishah]

Re: Shia And Sunni Muslims

@P_GL

wat are the differences between the two, somone said to me the other day that shia’s are not classed as muslims i’ve always thought they were:konfused:

and also can shia and Suni muslims get married:)

please people stick to the topic and also produce the evidence along with your facts:)

thanks

AOA

I have fatawa from Darol uloomkarachi that " Shia and sunni can marry" and I am shia married to sunni.
above statement answers the first question that both shia and sunni are muslims other wise marraige would not be valid and fatwaa invalid.

No doubt there are differences abnd both of them extracts from quran and sunna but sources are different such as if u look at the TARAJIM OF QURAN ( not even tafseer ) from Modoodi, Ahmed raza, Muhsin Ali Najfi and so on u will get surprised but it works ( kalam-i-khudaa ba zabani insaa , Itnaa asaan kahaa )

basics are same ( almost) and fiqaa are different thru out in all school of thoughts even among sunni’s school of thoughts )

Take care and Allaha Hafiz

[cricketplaya]

Re: Shia And Sunni Muslims

AOA

I have fatawa from Darol uloomkarachi that " Shia and sunni can marry" and I am shia married to sunni. above statement answers the first question that both shia and sunni are muslims other wise marraige would not be valid and fatwaa invalid.

No doubt there are differences abnd both of them extracts from quran and sunna but sources are different such as if u look at the TARAJIM OF QURAN ( not even tafseer ) from Modoodi, Ahmed raza, Muhsin Ali Najfi and so on u will get surprised but it works ( kalam-i-khudaa ba zabani insaa , Itnaa asaan kahaa )

basics are same ( almost) and fiqaa are different thru out in all school of thoughts even among sunni's school of thoughts )

Take care and Allaha Hafiz

Who gave you that fatwa?

[mercenary2k]

Re: Shia And Sunni Muslims

who exactly is qualified to give out a fatwa?

[cricketplaya]

Re: Shia And Sunni Muslims

a Mufti.