Shaykh Nuh Keller on Western Apologetic Islam

[cricketplaya]

Full Audio: http://www.info-islam.org/Sheikh Nuh in England 07.mp3

Below are notes of an individual that attended the event in the UK.

** Western “Apologetic Islam”**

On the 17th of August a question was asked

“How should we treat non Muslims who are hostile or just ignorant and don’t treat us as they should, should we be confrontational and demand our rights etc”

The Shaykh responded, “No, demand Allah’s rights only.”, stating that we should not be demanding our own rights and whenever we could sacrifice our own prestige we should not hesitate to do so, but whenever something was for Allah swt we should stand up for it, as the Shaykh said “this is the way”.

The Shaykh continued:** “Don’t compromise your deen, because of them (the non Muslims). Don’t do anything because of them and don’t. refrain from anything because of them, but just speak your truth”**

He told the listeners to get over the idea that Islam needs people (in the form of new adherents) and so, Islam should be modified to be made more palatable for the non Muslims, he said

“Get over the idea that the truth needs people, So we have to water it down enough so everybody can accept it. Yeah .. Islam is really just flower power. Islam is really just a new health cereal like granola Islam is anything you want.”

The Shaykh said that whoever hears this from among the non Muslims will be disgusted with the Muslims and with Islam, rather Muslims should say: “No, Islam is the haq. Islam is the truth, and this is the way it is. Like it. Don’t like it. Here it is.“

The Shaykh went on to say that the apologetic trend of “many Islamic spokesmen in the west” is a “big fat mistake” that only makes more contempt for the Muslims and what we stand for. He said that while not apologising, we should speak out against wrongs such as suicide bombings and tell those people who think its an act of worship (i.e., fellow Muslims) directly that it is not, that we should “straighten them out”.

But he further warned that we should never be shy and try to make Islam into something it is not, a new species, or say to the non Muslims “Well we are just like Presbyterians , only we put our hats on when we go into our mosques. We don’t take them off. “

The Shaykh said that this is “a bunch of rubbish” that nobody is ever going to believe, rather we should say “I am a muslim and I am proud, for the sake of Allah subhanahu wa ta’ala that he has made me muslim.”, and that this is what impresses the non-Muslims.

The Shaykh stated that this is what impressed him and that he started thinking about becoming muslim when he saw muslim who was like that. The Shaykh Specifically said**
“He was a modernist but still he had that amount of decency that he wasn’t an apologist” **and further emphasised the point stated above that Muslims should not be going out of their ways to apologise for this or that by saying (in a raised voice), “There is nothing to apologise for, nothing to apologise for!”

The Shaykh went on to reiterate, and stating for the second time in the talk that Islam does not need new adherents at any cost, by saying:
“The haq doesn’t need people. People need the haq. Don’t make your self irrelevant by all this watering things down until they don’t even look like Islam or sound like Islam, and no one will recognise it.”

He narrated that he went to the Toronto Suhba in 2006 at the same time as the Canadian media was full of stories about a plot to kidnap and behead the Prime Minister. The Shaykh went into a medical clinic wearing his usual attire and when a 60 year old man saw him, he suddenly smiled at him thinking “this man has got crust”. Essentially that the man respected the fact that Shaykh Nuh was unfazed by all the publicity and went about things in his usual way including his attire.

The Shaykh continued with the story about the Muslim who had impressed him, namely his former lecturer in Islamic Studies at the university of Chicago.

In response to a question about why “Islam relegates women to an inferior position” by a group of feminist ladies the lecturer responded** “actually, men and women are equal in Islam with regards to all their works with Allah swt however men are one degree higher than women because they work and they spend on women with their livelihood”**

This straight answer without beating around the bush and without any fear of being un PC had deeply inspired the Shaykh, who said “So by being politically incorrect Allah swt will give you if your intention is haq”

The Shaykh warned against cowardice and especially fearing the opinions of the non Muslims and demonstrated the repulsive nature of cowardice by giving an example from the prophet sws. He said:
**
“The prophet sws was a man who really didn’t care about what anybody thought, except for Allah swt. And despite the huge, hugeness of his courage sws He used to take refuge from cowardice with Allah”**

He went on to warn against some of the absurdities in the obsession with winning the hearts of the non Muslims and the futility of this approach by saying:

“So when people see that the Muslims are trying to say that Islam is flower power, Islam is a new vitamin packed cereal or Islam is a new species of Christianity or whatever they are saying to try to win the hearts of the Christians and Jews, You are not gonna win their hearts until you quit making sajdah with your head upon the ground my friends in that sense but stand your ground and say this is the way I am, like it or don’t like it.”

The last very powerful statement about making sajdah on the ground really summed it up, that Muslims should not be apologetic cowards, should be proud of the truth of Islam, that Islam is not a commodity to be marketed in an attempt to get as many customers as possible and that any attempts to “win hearts” by watering down the truth would be futile.

Full notes on SunniForum thread:
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25887

[cricketplaya]

Re: Shaykh Nuh Keller on Western Apologetic Islam

He has said it beautifully. That's what we Muslims need. Stand up for Islam, do not modify it! Do not be ashamedl! Be Proud to be Muslim.

[ravage]

Re: Shaykh Nuh Keller on Western Apologetic Islam

you know shameful is not the same as ashamed

[cricketplaya]

Re: Shaykh Nuh Keller on Western Apologetic Islam

@ravage

you know shameful is not the same as ashamed

abhay yaar, why poke at my intellect. :D

[sweet_taboo]

Re: Shaykh Nuh Keller on Western Apologetic Islam

Reminds me of a Hadith attributed to our Prophet :saw: something along the lines of:

“If anyone seeks the pleasure of people at the expense of the wrath of Allaah, Allaah will entrust him to them until the one who praised him becomes his critic. If anyone seeks the pleasure of Allaah at the expense of people, Allaah will be enough for him against them.”

[USResident]

Re: Shaykh Nuh Keller on Western Apologetic Islam

Nice emotional speech and I do not disagree with what he said either. However it would be nice that we also play the progress and education part alongwith the emotion part.

He is right we should not be ashamed of our faith however there is every reason to be ashamed of where we stand despite having the teachings of such a beautiful religion.

[sweet_taboo]

Re: Shaykh Nuh Keller on Western Apologetic Islam

Ya Allaah :swt: give us a true understanding of Your glorious Deen and make us firm upon it, Aameen.

[hareem01]

Re: Shaykh Nuh Keller on Western Apologetic Islam

@USResident

Nice emotional speech and I do not disagree with what he said either. However it would be nice that we also play the progress and education part alongwith the emotion part.

He is right we should not be ashamed of our faith however there is every reason to be ashamed of where we stand despite having the teachings of such a beautiful religion.

Shaykh is a teacher himself so does this count?

[Seminole]

Re: Shaykh Nuh Keller on Western Apologetic Islam

@cricketplaya

In response to a question about why **“**Islam relegates women to an inferior position” by a group of feminist ladies the lecturer responded “actually, men and women are equal in Islam with regards to all their works with Allah swt **however men are one degree higher than women because they work and they spend on women with their livelihood”
**

Does this stick out to anyone else? I haven’t heard it put this way before. “Men and women are equal” but"men are one degree higher than women".

That is the silliest reasoning for putting men above women that I’ve ever heard.

How about women are one degree higher than men because they take care of him and his household, bear and raise his children and sacrifice any dreams they may have to do these things. Oh, and they are limited to just one husband.

[hareem01]

Re: Shaykh Nuh Keller on Western Apologetic Islam

@Seminole

Does this stick out to anyone else? I haven’t heard it put this way before. “Men and women are equal” but"men are one degree higher than women".

**That is the silliest reasoning for putting men above women that I’ve ever heard. **

How about women are one degree higher than men because they take care of him and his household, bear and raise his children and sacrifice any dreams they may have to do these things. Oh, and they are limited to just one husband.

Men and Women are equal in rights…what makes men 1 degree higher is their responsibility to take care of their women, so this makes complete sense to me.

[Hyperactive]

Re: Shaykh Nuh Keller on Western Apologetic Islam

@Seminole

Does this stick out to anyone else? I haven’t heard it put this way before. “Men and women are equal” but"men are one degree higher than women".

That is the silliest reasoning for putting men above women that I’ve ever heard.

How about women are one degree higher than men because they take care of him and his household, bear and raise his children and sacrifice any dreams they may have to do these things. Oh, and they are limited to just one husband.

Like the Shaykh said…Accept it or ignore it…

For Muslims, this is the truth…You are welcome to ignore it or if not do some research or ask some Muslim knowledgeable person…

[Seminole]

Re: Shaykh Nuh Keller on Western Apologetic Islam

What does one degree higher mean? And what is the scriptural basis for it?

[USResident]

Re: Shaykh Nuh Keller on Western Apologetic Islam

@hareem01

Shaykh is a teacher himself so does this count?

Long time no chit chat behna … how r studies, must be keeping you busy.

It does not count in the context of my reply. I did not mean his personal endeavours but rather voicing and committing to actions that push the community for progress and education.

[sweet_taboo]

Re: Shaykh Nuh Keller on Western Apologetic Islam

@Seminole

What does one degree higher mean? And what is the scriptural basis for it?

Men and women are equal in Islam but not the same. The imbecile feminists seem to get eqaulity and sameness all confused up.

Islam regards man as the head/manager of the household (including his wife, as well as his children). Man is the protector because he is stronger and the maintainer because he is best suited to the role of breadwinner.

Some would see that as inequality but I say men and women are physically and psyhcologically different and so under Islam they have both been assigned roles that are suited to their respective natures.

[Mr_Fraudia]

Re: Shaykh Nuh Keller on Western Apologetic Islam

and standing for islam and not being apologists applies to standing firm in teh face of militants, extremists and two bit thugs who are presenting an incorrect version of islam, whether it is the morons blowing innocent ppl up (al qaeda, hamas, sipah sahaba) , or idiots passing bigoted statements, passing their ridiculous ideology in brochures outside mosques (ala HT, mohajiroun, ghuaraba)

its a muslims duty to stand up against these people.

[Seminole]

Re: Shaykh Nuh Keller on Western Apologetic Islam

@sweet_taboo

Men and women are equal in Islam but not the same. The imbecile feminists seem to get eqaulity and sameness all confused up.

Islam regards man as the head/manager of the household (including his wife, as well as his children). Man is the protector because he is stronger and the maintainer because he is best suited to the role of breadwinner.

Some would see that as inequality but I say men and women are physically and psyhcologically different and so under Islam they have both been assigned roles that are suited to their respective natures.

Equality means that men and women share in decisions. One does not rule the other. Because a man is the protector or breadwinner doesn't mean he is smarter than his wife. Or a better decision maker or manager of money or parent.

What about a disabled man whose wife is the bread winner? What about big fat chicks who can whoop up on their puny husbands? The stronger/bread winner argument doesn't work. It just doesn't make sense to me that God automaticallay puts the man in charge. Because one degree higher implies he rules.

[STONECOLD]

Re: Shaykh Nuh Keller on Western Apologetic Islam

In islam isnt it two women witness to one mans testimony in court cases?

Men and women are equal but the man has been given a slight edge...but too many mullahs take advantage of this ruling and interpret it wrongly that men are better!

[Mostar95]

Re: Shaykh Nuh Keller on Western Apologetic Islam

@USResident

Long time no chit chat behna … how r studies, must be keeping you busy.

It does not count in the context of my reply. I did not mean his personal endeavours but rather voicing and committing to actions that push the community for progress and education.

Last time, she was very much frustrated by antagonist guppies (like me) and decided to abstain from GS. Am I right sister?

[hareem01]

Re: Shaykh Nuh Keller on Western Apologetic Islam

@USResident

Long time no chit chat behna … how r studies, must be keeping you busy.

It does not count in the context of my reply. I did not mean his personal endeavours but rather voicing and committing to actions that push the community for progress and education.

waaykum salaam
Alhamdulilah, I’m fine. Thanks

Probably Shaykh didn’t talk about this particular subject in this speech but mainly their target is to educate people and struggle for the good, I know you don’t like listening name of shaykh Hamza Yusuf from me again and again but he is student of Shaykh Keller and he has almost devoted his life for spreading knowledge.

PS: these scholars do talk about education and progress more than any other scholars I’ve heard.
Please refer to their work.

[hareem01]

Re: Shaykh Nuh Keller on Western Apologetic Islam

@Fraudz

and standing for islam and not being apologists applies to standing firm in teh face of militants, extremists and two bit thugs who are presenting an incorrect version of islam, whether it is the morons blowing innocent ppl up (al qaeda, hamas, sipah sahaba) , or idiots passing bigoted statements, passing their ridiculous ideology in brochures outside mosques (ala HT, mohajiroun, ghuaraba)

its a muslims duty to stand up against these people.

Shaykh Keller said the similar thing in this talk. He said that while not apologising, we should speak out against wrongs such as suicide bombings and tell those people who think its an act of worship (i.e., fellow Muslims) directly that it is not, that we should “straighten them out”.

I did try to get in their way but they thought I were a "murtad".