Sharon's trip to India.

A real friendship in the offing, says Sharon

NEW DELHI: Prime Minister Ariel Sharon said on Tuesday that Israel and India could do “many things together,” setting the tone for a historic visit to this country that both countries hope would strengthen their growing ties.

“We can do many things together in many fields,” a beaming Sharon told reporters after Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee accorded him a ceremonial welcome in the red, gravelled forecourt of Rashtrapati Bhavan, the imposing presidential palace, in balmy weather conditions.

This is the first trip by an Israeli premier to India, which established diplomatic ties with Tel Aviv in 1992, an event that many interpret as a shift from the pro-Palestine, pro-Arab stance that marked New Delhi’s foreign policy since independence in 1947.

Muslim groups and leftists have organised protests against Sharon, who arrived here Sunday night on a three-day trip, accompanied by a 150-strong delegation, including senior ministers, top businessmen and journalists.

An overcast sky hid the sun and brought down the temperature as Sharon took the salute from an inter-services guard of honour from a special saluting base, a rectangular maroon canopy with golden frills and shiny brass supports, as the navy band played the national anthems of the two countries.

A former brigadier general of the Israeli Defence Forces, the burly Sharon, 75, wearing a black suit with white shirt and light blue tie, then briskly marched to inspect the honour guard.

Presidential guards mounted on thoroughbred horses flanked either end of the sprawling forecourt, impressive in their white tunics, blue and gold turbans and knee-length leather boots, red and white pendants atop the lances they held aloft.

Thanking Vajpayee for the invitation, Sharon noted that this was the first visit by an Israeli prime minister to India and said he had brought along greetings from Jerusalem.

He described India “one of the most important countries in the world” and said Tel Aviv was keen to develop and strengthen bilateral ties.

“We are very much interested to develop and strengthen relations with India because India is one of the most important countries in the world,” he said.

A smiling Vajpayee, who introduced Sharon to his senior ministers and officials, echoed similar sentiments and termed Sharon’s visit as “historic”.

“The visit will give a new shape to our relations. I am confident relations between our countries will become closer,” he said.

From the Rashtrapati Bhavan welcome, Sharon drove to the memorial of Mahatma Gandhi at Rajghat on the bank of the Yamuna river and paid homage to the apostle of peace by placing a wreath.

Hectic engagements await Sharon during his two-day stay in the capital and a day in Mumbai before returning home on Thursday.

Besides holding delegation level talks with Vajpayee, he will also call on President A P J Abdul Kalam and hold talks with almost all key senior Indian ministers.

Military cooperation and a strategy to combat terrorism, besides enhancing economic and trade ties, are expected to dominate the talks.

The two sides will sign six agreements at the end of the delegation-level talks and possibly a joint statement, charting out the future course of their bilateral ties.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cms.dll/html/uncomp/articleshow?msid=173593


Very interesting to see Israeli premier in India. This had never happened since the birth of the israeli state. I am surprised why suddenly Israel is seeing India now? (or India seeing Israel now?). Anyway let us hope something positive comes out of the meet.

From a pariah, Israel is now India’s bosom pal

TIMES NEWS NETWORK TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 09, 2003 01:58:17 PM ]

NEW DELHI: There was a time, not long ago, when Benjamin Netanyahu cancelled a trip to India because New Delhi was not eager to host an Israeli prime minister.

Much earlier, when then defence minister Moshe Dayan came calling in the late seventies, the whole thing was kept under wraps; and when it did get leaked out, much after Dayan had returned home, there was a political storm in New Delhi.

And there were times when New Delhi was hesitant to issue visas even if Israeli teams sought to come to India to take part in international sporting events.

For a country that considered itself as the most vocal non-Muslim champion of the Palestinian cause, and where Palestinian hero Yasser Arafat came calling as often as he could, Israel had been a pariah until a decade ago.

But, when soldier-turned-politician Ariel Sharon arrives here as the first Israeli prime minister to set foot on Indian soil, he will be entering a nation that has dramatically altered its view of the Middle East and chosen as friend a country that is widely hated in the Middle East.

And Hindu-majority India - still home to the world’s second largest Muslim population after Indonesia - is not hiding its glee although, as if almost as a last-minute sop, it hosted Palestine Foreign Minister Nabil Sha’sath just before Sharon.

The Arab world in particular - and the entire diplomatic corps here - would be keenly watching Sharon’s path-breaking journey that would seek to greatly boost diplomatic, economic and military ties between the two democracies.

Bilateral trade now totals $1.2 billion, a far cry from the times when businessmen from India avoid going to Tel Aviv so as not to offend their Arab partners.

But this will also be one of those rare trips by a foreign leader that does not have the enthusiastic backing of the entire political establishment, sections of which have come out against courting Sharon.

Obviously, the traditional Indian distaste of Israel is not going to go away - easily or quickly.

Officially, of course, India still remains a friend of Palestine and is all for a free independent Palestine.

India is also a good friend of Iran, a country Israel has no love for, and has hundreds of thousands of its citizens employed all over the Middle East – a large group whose remittances have helped boost foreign exchange reserves.

“Relations between India and Israel are robust today,” said Commodore C. Uday Bhaskar, deputy director of the Institute of Defence Studies and Analyses, a highly regarded think tank here.

Although diplomatic ties with Israel were established in 1992 by a Congress party government, these relations have blossomed in recent years because the ruling Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) has always considered Tel Aviv an ally, ideologically.

Many Indians have come to believe, rightly or wrongly, that despite the country’s strong support to the cause of Palestine, Muslim countries have done precious little for New Delhi. Many have, on the contrary, openly courted Pakistan, India’s bitter enemy.

“It is a fact that there is a strong resentment against Arab countries among security agencies,” said a leader of the Congress party who otherwise has a lot of sympathy for Palestinians.

He added: “Somehow Arab countries have fostered a belief that even if India looks at the Middle East through secular eyes, they will see India only through the prism of their fraternal relations with Pakistan.”

Many ordinary Indians also have deep admiration for Israel for the way it battles terrorists, taking out their leaders on the strength of its security and intelligence agencies.

That Israel today suffers more terrorist strikes than ever before is lost on many in India.

But strategic expert Bhaskar said it was wrong to look at Indian relations with Israel in the context of New Delhi’s mammoth 140 million Muslim population.

“Today many Muslim and Arab countries have a working relationship with Israel. Indeed some countries like Turkey have very congenial and strategic relations,” he said.

About India’s former coyness about friendship with Israel, he said: “We are living in a completely different contest. Positions countries took earlier are not valid not any more. This is a completely different time and age.”

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cms.dll/html/uncomp/articleshow?msid=173649

Best thing to happen! Why should we fight with anyone??

In fact the whole world should behave like one family with many borders!

I love the Jews. They are the chosen people of the abrahamic faiths so they diserve to be treated with respect. that means all of you..pay your respects.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Matsui: *
.....pay your respects.
[/QUOTE]

did u mean $$$? Germany is paying, France has agreed to pay... need more?

Re: Sharon's trip to India.

A friendship based on killing innocent muslims......

Re: Re: Sharon's trip to India.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by tanha-tanha: *
A friendship based on killing innocent muslims......
[/QUOTE]

Sharon and Vajpayee are like Hitler and Stalin - both having a common enemy i.e. Muslims. Remember Sharon's role in the Sabra and Shatila massacre, and Vajpayee praising the Modi the butcher of Muslims in Gujrat.

Sharon and Vajpayee are like Chruchill and FDR. In the wake of terrorism, they go out lay the pipe to the terrorists. Gotta love them.

:k: For Israel and India relations.

The fight between the good and the evil will never stop until they cease to exist and that will only happen on the day of judgement. So until then, the show must go on...

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by karina: *
Best thing to happen! Why should we fight with anyone??

In fact the whole world should behave like one family with many borders!
[/QUOTE]

Re: Re: Sharon's trip to India.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by tanha-tanha: *
A friendship based on killing innocent muslims......
[/QUOTE]

You mean like the friendship between Pakistan and China or Pakistan and North Korea - based on killing innocent hindus?

Ah, long live true friendship.

Wow, what can u say
Once again all we can do is thank god for Jinnah that we don't live in India.
And you people talking about Sharon catching terrorists, consider the man is all but a convicted war criminal found guilty of killing hundreds of Palestinians in Lebanon by his own country. But then again considering your own country has a future Prime Minister hopeful (Modi) guilty of murdering thousands I guess we can't expect you to understand.

Re: Re: Re: Sharon's trip to India.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by karina: *

You mean like the friendship between Pakistan and China or Pakistan and North Korea - based on killing innocent hindus?

Ah, long live true friendship.
[/QUOTE]

......hindus r not innocent.....but kashmiris & palestinians are...

Re: Re: Re: Re: Sharon's trip to India.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by tanha-tanha: *

......hindus r not innocent.....but kashmiris & palestinians are...
[/QUOTE]

That quote just confirms Sharon's visit couldn't have been soon enough!

Kashmiri pandits are not innocent? Palestinians, yes they have a cause for grievance, but would you call the jew babies killed by palestinian 'militants' guilty? Try to look at the picture from both sides instead of only one.

Quite obviously Pakistan is miffed that India has a new friend in the form of it's foe. Which is a tad hypocritical if you read an extract from this TOI report -

'Boucher's endorsement of the Sharon trip comes amid feverish objections from Pakistan which has described the visit as a potentially destabilizing development in the subcontinent. A Pakistani spokesman in Islamabad, where ironically there is an ongoing debate on recognizing Israel, fulminated about Indo-Israeli military ties despite recent revelations that Pakistan had a clandestine arms relationship with the Jewish state during the regime of Gen.Zia-ul Haq.'

The enemies of Islam and Pakistan are coming together. Like I have said before, this is a wake-up call for Pakistan. Time for mullah, nationalist and others to think about Pakistan and its future. The mullah can try to make Pakistan more conservative and the nationalist can try to make it more progressive, but none will save Pakistan if we are not united. Time to remember that all we have is each other. If we cannot come together and work as one now; I am afraid to think what lies ahead. We cannot rely on the Chinese and the Arabs. In this world you take care of yourself first. Remember that.

To Karina,
You are confused about the realities of war. When somebody takes your land by force and refuses to abide by international law; such a country (Israel and India) cannot be talked to on a round table. You try to take back what is yours, any way you can get it. That is called war. Don't tell me about Israeli babies (although I condemn the killing of the hindu pandits). For every Israeli baby, hundreds of Palestinians babies died too. In this war one (Israel) kills to fulfill their desire to ethnically cleanse and claim somebody else's land. The Palestinian strikes back for what is rightly theirs. Do you refute that?

BTW, countries and their boundaries are not some forever entity. The people on the land decide how they want to live. The people of Kashmir do not want to be part of India. If you refute that then let the Kashmiri's decide. Hold a free election in Kashmir with U.N. in charge. If the Kasmiri's decide to stay with India, then that will be a great victory for India. What is India so scared about? That the people will decide to leave democratic and secular India for fanatic and repressive Pakistan?

I think that India's newfound association with Israel is the beast thing that could ever happen to Pakistan. Almost everywhere in the world outside of parts of the US people realize the horrendous crimes against humanity committed by Israel. People the world over condemn Israel’s policies of ethnic cleansing. Consider the factor of guilt by association. India's own crimes against humanity will be forced into the spotlight due their newfound association with this international pariah. Making things even better for Pakistan, Muslims the world over (not just Pakistanis) will finally see India as the enemy of Islam that it is, seeing Sharon showered with roses in India.
Oh and all you deluded Indians who constantly talk about India's huge, empowered and influential Muslim minority, where are you know? What do you think that your average Indian Muslim has to say about India’s new best friend Ariel Sharon.

^ You talk about Israel being condemned world over. So is pakistan's Kashmir stance and support of terrorism. What's being done about that?

What business is it of pakistan if two other sovereign nations shake hands?

Doesn't musharaf shake hands in China every 6 months? What about deals with N.Korea.

For so many decades India suported the Palestianian cause openly. How do you thing the Arab countries respond? How do you think pakistan which takes pride in being a muslim country respond? they sent killers into kashmor to kill Hindus and Muslims there.

BTW the relations is between two nations. If Sharon is a war criminal if and when that's so established he stays or falls on his own merits. Nothing to do wit India+Israel relations.

Finally if you so hate the Israelis, why did you buy weapons from them?

^ I buy weapons from Israel?
I don’t think so :rotfl: ,
ahh Thomas my lad you are naive
Israel and Palestine is an issue that is in the collective conscience of the entire world, whether Pakistan or India like it or not, the Kashmir issue is not the same. The average person outside of the subcontinent and the middle east is well aware of what Israel is doing in Palestine but most don’t care about Kashmir. ( I think it’s too bad)
My point is not that Pakistan should care if two sovereign nations shake hands, my point is that India’s association with Israel will finally give Pakistan leverage on the world stage in public opinion against India it didn’t have in the past. Most crucially this leverage will be among non-desi Muslims who in the past have not been aware of the anti-Muslim political trends in India. Also I heartily support India’s support of the Palestinians in the past, as did many other muslims. In fact this was a crucial selling point that Indian muslims used for India.
Your refusal to condemn Sharon is not surprising considering LK Advani pr Narendra Modi are very possible future Indian PM’s.

^ You actually make a valid point that association with Sharon may push some muslims away from India. But the benefits outweigh that cost. a) India is secure enough stature amongst the muslims of the world 2) muslim countries have given sufficient indication of support for Kashmir being India which implies they understand Pakistan's errors in that respect 3) The non-muslims of the worl are thorougly disgusted with the suicide bombings and in fact have grudgingly started siding woth Sharon's tactics - unfortunate but true. Yeah there is the usual condemnation ritual for each tank role but....;

the biggest implication is the equation of pakistan with the PLO in the eye of the world That confirms the arafat musharaf parallel