I sort of had to blink to see if I was hearing this right! Sharon is lecturing his own party and his right wing coalition on how wrong it is for Israel to hold the Palestinians under “occupation”. whoa.
Careful or people will be have to rethink the “Man of Peace” comment!
“It is not possible to continue holding three and a half million people under occupation,” Sharon said. “This is a terrible thing for Israel, for the Palestinians and for the Israeli economy. Today 1.8 million Palestinians live thanks to support from international organization. Do you want to take responsible for them yourselves? I do not think that it is right to control Bethlehem and Ramallah.”
“This is not a happy decision,” Sharon said late Sunday, speaking in Jerusalem. “We will need to make painful concessions, and if the process moves forward, and I will make every effort to see that it does, we will make painful concessions such as these. But in one sphere there will be no concession, and that is in the sphere of the security of Israel and of its citizens.”
“I know that there are doubts,” Sharon continued. “Everyone has doubts. I have doubts as well. But I know one thing: We must try.”
Could it be for PR - media sound bites?
Sincerely doubt the zionists are going to significantly dismantle the illegal constructions and vacate comprehensively the occupied territories; will probably come up with some feeble excuse and then use the Palestinian objections as reason for "peace process" grinding to a halt - deja vu.
Maybe he's using this current stance to try and avoid being prosecuted as the butcher of Sabra & Shatila.
Another version of the same quotesfrom the New York Times:
JERUSALEM (AP) – Defending himself against right-wing attack, Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon said Monday he endorsed a peace plan recognizing the Palestinians’ right to a state because continuing to rule them is ``bad for us and them.‘’
This can't continue endlessly,'' he told angry lawmakers from his Likud Party a day after his Cabinet conditionally approved the U.S.-backed road map’’ for Mideast peace. The plan envisages a Palestinian state by 2005.
The 12-7 Cabinet vote, with four abstentions, marked a sea change in policy, especially for conservatives in Sharon’s Likud for whom Palestinian statehood has been anathema.
For decades, Sharon was Israel’s most prominent hawk, arguing that a Palestinian state would pose a mortal danger and pushing for Jewish settlement expansion in the West Bank and Gaza Strip to thwart future land concessions to the Palestinians.
On Monday, he found himself in the unfamiliar position of defending his peace efforts, and was heckled by Likud legislators who reminded him of his prior opposition to concessions.
To keep 3.5 million people under occupation is bad for us and them,'' he said of Israel's 36-year presence in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. I want to say clearly that I have come to the conclusion that we have to reach a (peace) agreement.‘’
[QUOTE] Originally posted by Ohioguy: *
*"To keep 3.5 million people under occupation is bad for us and them,'' he said of Israel's 36-year presence in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. "I want to say clearly that I have come to the conclusion that we have to reach a (peace) agreement.''**
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Well, if he has honestly come to that realization - then that's excellent. i am not so certain how the rest of his government feels, though. There was an article in the Haaretz yesterday that stated many are vehemently opposed to an independent Palestinian state. Who knows how that will play out on Sharon vis-a-vis pressure from members of the opposition... or opposition from his own party members.
Lets just hope the words mean more than "read my lips, no new taxes" sort of deal :)
Hopefully this long running problem can be solved soon. The challenge is and has been that each side is looking for what it considers the optimal solution..and any case where there is a win-lose situation proposed, it weill turn into a lose lose because it will not be materialized.
Both sides should try for a win-win situation and treat each others as human beings with respect and dignity.
why aren't Israeli's speaking from Tel Aviv?? why is suddenly Jerusalem the center for all news coming out of Israel?? afterall Jersualem according to the UN is Palestinian property or at least occupied territory... isn't that right???
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*Originally posted by PakistaniAbroad: *
why aren't Israeli's speaking from Tel Aviv?? why is suddenly Jerusalem the center for all news coming out of Israel??
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Maybe Ariel found some new all you can eat buffets in Jerusalem
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*Originally posted by PakistaniAbroad: *
why aren't Israeli's speaking from Tel Aviv?? why is suddenly Jerusalem the center for all news coming out of Israel?? afterall Jersualem according to the UN is Palestinian property or at least occupied territory... isn't that right???
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Jerusalem has been the center of the Jewish world for over 4,000 years and was made the capital 3,000 years ago. It has been the center of the Jewish faith during the succession of occupying powers - the Assyrians, Babylonians, the Romans, Byzantines, Persians, Arabs, Crusaders, Mamluks, Ottomans and the Brits. It's mentioned over 800 times in the Old and New Testaments, and is the spiritual center of their faith. So it's no surprise that after 4000 years, the Jews still consider Jerusalem their most important city.
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*Originally posted by Seminole: *
^ Does the UN negate 4000 years of history, culture, heritage and faith?
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Read PakistaniAbroad's comments again, he said that Jerusalem is Palestinian property as per UN. Israel should be speaking from their "current" center.
Read PakistaniAbroad's comments again, he said that Jerusalem is Palestinian property as per UN. Israel should be speaking from their "current" center.
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The legal status of Jerusalem (UN designated and otherwise) could be debated at length. My response was based on the cultural, spritual and historical ties the Jews have to Jerusalem as the geographic center of their faith. They view it as the most important city in their history and it makes sense they would try to maximize its importance in their affairs.
The UN has never declared Jerusalem as Palestinian territory. Unless my memory cells are thoroughly shot from Memorial Day parties, the 1948 Partition reserved Jerusalem as an international city and didn't give it to either side. After Oslo, it was divided East and West with the PA controlling part and Israel controlling part.
How easy it is to please some people with a few fake words of ingratiation from a long time killer...The mod_Muslims are lapping it up...Perhaps these words are a soothing balm for mod-Muslims after years of seeing thousands of their Palestinian brothers and sisters martyred in blissful apathy...Occupation, indeed...And this too endorsed by the same country that annihilated in the millions its own native population in the form of germ warfare...Millions of native Americans died in the 'taming' of this land...You say you had holocaust? Suuure!...And anyways, when Palestine was in Muslim hands, it was religiously, truly a cosmopolitan piece of land...All the signs were in three languages, Arabic, English and Hebrew...Everyone came as they pleased and left as they pleased...Jews, Christians and Muslims lived side by side with perfect tolerance...But now armed with the American way of justice and democracy, they formed Israel...The biggest bone of contention in the history of the world...Remember this...The land of Palestine belonged to any of Allah's religion as and when they were in power...It fell from Jews, to Christians and finally landed in the hands of Muslims and we opened it for everyone...You have wrested our heritage, our lands and our people with cruel injustices...Maybe there is time to think of those that tried before to do the same...Muslims will not rest till it is our Holy Land again...
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*Originally posted by Zakk: *
Correction, it was divided into East and West after 1948. the City was predominantly Arab till quite recently.
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Correction. That's not a correction at all. My above post says, ** "the 1948 Partition reserved Jerusalem as an international city and didn't give it to either side. After Oslo, it was divided East and West with the PA controlling part and Israel controlling part." **
So, what do you guys think. Is it really gonna be different this time? Is there finally a chance for peace in the middle east?
I hope Israeli government does not allow a few suicide bombers to dictate the whole process. Previously, anytime some progress is made, a bombing will occur and Israeli government will back-track. Someone needs to hold Israeli government firmly in check and emphasize that bombings will happen, they just need to stick to the task and will it out. At the end of the day, with two viable, vibrant nations living side by side, the violence will go down eventually. Right now its borne less by frustration and more for political advantage (Palestinians internal power struggle between PLO, Hamas and Hizbollah). And Israeli government plays right into their hands every time.
Someone needs to hold Israeli government firmly in check and emphasize that bombings will happen, they just need to stick to the task and will it out.
Likewise, someone needs to hold the terrorists firmly in check and emphasize that bombings CAN NOT happen. They just need to stick to the task and stop killing innocents to further their political agendas.
It's a little much to ask the Israelis to negotiate for a peaceful future when they have to dodge homicide bombers even while that territory is still under their control. What are they supposed to think will happen when they pull out and homicide bombers have free reign?
But you're right. Radical Palestinians play right into the hands of the radical Israelis and visa versa. Extremists on both sides don't want peace. IF the Israelis have the patience to outlast the homicide bombers and IF the Palestinians can accept a two-state solution with Jews in control of a piece of the Holy Land, then peace may happen. But those are huge IFs.
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*Originally posted by Seminole: *
Likewise, someone needs to hold the terrorists firmly in check and emphasize that bombings CAN NOT happen.
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This is precisely the point. They can not be kept checked, firmly or otherwise. The expectation that the peace process can ONLY move forward if the bombing ends, is futile, bound to fail and has been tried for last many years.
It is not gonna work.
I think the biggest challenge for Bush and his team is to emphasize to Sharon that he can not expect bombings to stop before progress is made towards peace... cz thats not gonna happen. They have to work their way forward, despite bombings and blood-shed and all the bumps which will come in the way. Thats where true statesmen shine and political clowns fails.
The organizations which promote bombing, they work out of emotions of abject failure and revenge, and it is not possible to wipe these out, unless viable process is made towards a better end.
