Sharia Sentance for Pregnant Teenager

Society Religion & Philosophy
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It says in the Qur'an somewhere (sorry cannot remember the verse), that Allah has for each one of us, given us an open road. That road is the path to ijtehad. To use our human faculties to interpret and apply Islamic principles, with the best of intentions.

The Qur'an is eternal and its message is a eternal one. But the interpretation of the Qur'an is not eternal. It can be altered. This is a contentious issue however, in some circumstances its easier to alter interpretations, in others its more difficult.

In the past few years there was lots of talk about the relationship between science and the Qur'an. That the Qur'an was saying what scientists had just now begun to discover. This was an acceptable interpretation - using science to interpret the Qur'an. It was acceptable because it legitimized the message.

Its alot more difficult to explain to someone that interpretations of the Qur'an regarding injunctions placed on women and punishments for crimes, may need to be re-interpreted. As society alters in its dynamics, it is crucial that we revise our interpretation - so we can deal effectively with emerging issues, like AIDS, environmental problems, genetic engineering, and warfare. In order to progress we need to revisit Hadith's, and the Qur'an, and use our own intellect to devise Islamic based knowledge to deal with current issues.

We can't solve this particular case on this forum, and without the facts of the entire case, it makes it even more difficult. We can question whether or not she was awarded due process, and whether or not justice was carried out in an Islamically acceptable manner. My suspicions are that neither was she granted a fair trial, nor will justice be carried out.

Achtung

42

non muslims like illogical and yasin keep saying bad stuff abt islam. Islamic law is much better than american/european law. Its americans and europeans that are living in the 7th century.

where true islamic law is practiced the people are living in peace and harmony. In saudi arabia the rulers might be evil but the common folk are living happily. In america old arab practices before islam are still practiced ie one man commits fornication with 100 woemn and in public talk shows they work out who is mother/ father.

1) In saudi arabia women arent harassed and rapes are unheard of. In america their is 1 rape every 3 minutes and ive witnessed women being sexually harassed in the streets. Thankfully i was their to put a stop to it but the cops locked me up instead. In saudi arabia the perpetrators are beat up so bad they learn not to insult women again

2) Their is no illegtimate children being born in saudi arabia so every child has right to have a father. In america 1 man has 8 children from 6 different women so children dont know who is their half brother or sister.

3) in saudi arabia muslims arent allowed to drink alcohol apart from very rich. However majority of population isnt allowed to drink so alcohol abuse and disease is rare. In america alcohol splits up families and is a major cause of crimes like stealing, rape etc

4) thanks to shariah law , the murder rate is near zero. In america you dont know if you will be alive tomorrow.

theris lots more differences between civilised america and out of date 7th century islam..........LOL

btw yasin, if you accept fornication as part of life then become a hindu. Hindusim allows all sins.

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I am never disappointed by the tenacity of the people here to TWIST words to prove their point or usually lack of it:

Logical is clearly saying that "Quran is Forever and asks: Are we using it like it is timeless & forever?"

His point: No! we're not! We are still stuck in the 7th century in the practise of Islam! Can you deny this? This sharia punishment to the 17 year old girl is a good example! The way Islam is practised & enforced in Saudia & Afghanistan are good examples.

If we are stuck in the 7th century then what good is a 'timeless quran which is forever' other than for bragging rights?

DO YOU KNOW WHAT TIMELESS MEANS:
It means it has "the answers" for all eternity! But, one has to seek the answers! It's in the interpretation - stupid!

IT DOES NOT mean that we freeze ourselves to the 7th century and make that into forever! We have made 7th century timeless!

HOW HAVE WE FROZEN OURSELVES TO THE 7TH CENTURY:
We have done that by making the sunnah of the prophet into the meanings of the quran and sunnah as the basis of all shariah laws. The intentions were good - how can one go wrong by following the 'ways' of the prophet?

DID MUHAMMED(saw) ASK HIS SUNNAH TO BE WRITTEN DOWN & FOLLOWED:

NO! Absolutely not! They[sunnah] are a guide, a treasure trove but not to be emulated for all eternity! For that - we must seek interpretations from the Quran!

Prophet Muhammad himself commanded his people not to write his hadith, this is documented in Sahaih Muslim and other books:

"Do not write down anything of me except the Quran. Whoever writes other than that should delete it" (Ahmed, Vol. 1, page 171.....also Sahih Muslim)

The four guided Khalifas who ruled the Muslim Umma (nation) after the death of the Prophet Muhammed, respected the order of the Prophet and prohibited the writing and collection of Hadiths.

They did believe God in his book and accepted the commandment of the Prophet.
Abu Bakr at one point was not sure whether to keep what he knows of hadiths or not. He had collected 500 Hadiths during very long companionship of the Prophet Muhammed, but he could not sleep the night until he burned them.

Omar Ibn Al-Khattab insisted on destroying the Hadiths collected by his son Abdullah. Islamic history mentioned the story of Omar Ibn Al-Khattab restraining four of the Prophet's companions because of their insistence on telling Hadiths, these were Ibn Masoud, Abu Al-Dardaa, Abu Masoud Al-Anssary and Abu Tharr Al-Ghaffary. Omar called Abu Hurayra a liar and threatened to send him back to Yemen where he came from if he does not stop telling these lies about the prophet Muhammed. He stopped until Omar died then started again.

Ali Ibn Abu Talib, the fourth Khalifa in one of his speeches said, "I urge all those who have writing taken from the messenger of God to go home and erase it. The people before you were annihilated because they followed the Hadiths of their scholars and left the book of their Lord." (Sunan Al-Daramy)

TO: MASI:
Please do something about your ignorance! Logical asked you for certain ayas but instead you shove to him the aya Sura An-Nisa that is 'abused' to keep women inferior.

The aya Sura An-Nisa when revealed in the 7th century immediately improved the status of the women. The women under Islam were immediately afforded enhanced status than under the previous Abrahamic traditions.

BUT, that was 7th century! Is the application or understanding or interpretation of the 7th century VALID in the 21 st century?

If we claim that quran has all the answers then shouldn't we Seek/find one that is relevant for the 21st century. Or, should we freeze ourselves to the 7th century?

So, Masi - can the zakat be increased to 7% from the current 2.5% so funds can be available to assist the poor?

[This message has been edited by faceup (edited September 17, 2000).]

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faceup,

i dont bother reading your long posts abt islam. You are just a hindu pretending to be a muslim.

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TO: MASI:
Please do something about your ignorance! Logical asked you for certain ayas but instead you shove to him the aya Sura An-Noor that is ‘abused’ to keep women inferior.

EXCUSE ME face up but raed my meesage again isaid SURAH AL-NISA!!! not SURAH AL-NOOR, SURAH AL-NISA is abt women excuseme!!! first read the mgs carefully and then answer!

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/tongue.gif

46

OK! It's corrected! I had the name wrong. The message is intact!

47

Dear Masi,

There is a good site which talks about status of women under Islam:
http://www.jannah.org/sisters/statuswomen.html

All are equal in the eyes of Allah.
Allah’s deen is based on compassion & tolerance!

48

Logical: I answered some of your questions and also raised some of mine.

Please read them (on page 1) and answer them if feel comforatble.

CoolDude

49

We point fingers at the Cristians for canging or not following the Bible and here we are stating that wether the Quran the book of god is Right in this topic about lashing the girl!! Come on God intended this book until the day of Qayamat which is not here yet so the rules of the Quran must be followed until then! I totally agree with Masi108.
these English films have made all this stuff which is haram sound good and make ISLAM THE WORD OF GOD sound bad and the punishment even worse!

50

SPAWN

I asked you a simple question under the thread:MY SCARF that since you're so laudatory in the observance of women's hijab you must indeed observe the male requirements under shariat re: Islamic dress/attire for muslim males(like Prophet & Sahaba), grooming (beard), head gear (topi)and keeping gaze lowered when approaching muslim sisters ot in their company.

I am disappointed in your lack of response! What kind of example does this lack of response set amongst our muslim brothers?

I noticed that you are equally laudatory in the punishment meted out to the 17 year old girl (180 lashes)and, SINCE her punishment is based on the same sharia laws that has also set down the dress & groom requirements for muslim males WHICH you have chosen to reject and regale in the decadent western attire & grooming habits - You, sir, are in defiance of the Shariat and are not a muslim at all!

For this insult to the sharia laws (written by angry, old men) I recommend that you be LASHED at least 180 times!

51

Actually faceup, wearing hijab is Fardh.

Wearing topi or keeping a beard is sunnat. i.e. it is good to do it but not compulsory..

You should know that !!!

52

True Cool Dude. Hijab is farz (wajib/mandatory).

Humble.

53

Cool,
Thanx for the pointer!

Islamic Male dress code is shariat and is equally compulsory and, is based on the same quranic aya that stipulates the hijab for females!

Sorry, no special previlege for males!

54

For men, then should cover from their naval down to their knees.

Show me the quranic ayat or hadith which says it is compulsory to do so.

Actually, I did come across a hadith which said that a man should have some hair on his face 'to be different than women and the non-muslims!'

55

Cool

You tell me if what you say below is cool:

"For men, then should cover from their naval down to their knees.
Show me the quranic ayat or hadith which says it is compulsory to do so."

QUESTIONS:
1)So, it is OK for men to bare their upper torso (chest) and bare their legs below the kness?

2) Are sharia'h laws compulsory or optional?

3) The Hejab - is it a head covering or a complete veil?

Pls respond!

[This message has been edited by faceup (edited September 21, 2000).]

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faceup:

If you look through the whole Quran, the first ayat that was revealed was the following:

[7:26]
26. O Children of Adam! We have bestowed raiment upon you to cover yourselves (screen your private parts, etc.) and as an adornment, and the raiment of righteousness, that is better. Such are among the Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) of Allah, that they may remember (i.e. leave falsehood and follow truth).

Private parts for women are the obvious and for men they are considered to be from the naval down to the knee. I don’t think any scholars disagree with that - find me one

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

Then came this following ayat regarding women:

[24:31]
31. And tell the believing women to lower their gaze (from looking at forbidden things), and protect their private parts (from illegal sexual acts, etc.) and not to show off their adornment except only that which is apparent (like palms of hands or one eye or both eyes for necessity to see the way, or outer dress like veil, gloves, head-cover, apron, etc.), and to draw their veils all over Juyubihinna (i.e. their bodies, faces, necks and bosoms, etc.) and not to reveal their adornment except to their husbands, their fathers, their husband’s fathers, their sons, their husband’s sons, their brothers or their brother’s sons, or their sister’s sons, or their (Muslim) women (i.e. their sisters in Islam), or the (female) slaves whom their right hands possess, or old male servants who lack vigour, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex. And let them not stamp their feet so as to reveal what they hide of their adornment. And all of you beg Allah to forgive you all, O believers, that you may be successful.

If you notice in this ayat- not to show off their adornment except only that which is apparent - some scholars interpret this as meaning the face hands etc, some say it should only be the hands and the eyes.

Q 1 and 3 should be answered by the above.

Shariah is Law. Just like you can’t bend the law in other societies (US, UK) you can’t bend Shariah law.

Hope this helps.

57

CoolDude,

Pls answer my questions(3)in your own english. Thnx

QUESTIONS:
1)So, it is OK for men to bare their upper torso (chest) and bare their legs below the kness?

2) Are sharia'h laws compulsory or optional?

3) The Hejab - is it a head covering or a complete veil?

58

As I read all your responses to this, one thing that comes to mind is the viewing of Islam abroad. When I was in school, someone turned to me and said, isn't Saudia Arabia barbaric, for stealing you guys cut the hands off. When in actuality, I was told that the Quran states to make a cut on the thief's hand, to serve him/her as a reminder of thier crimes.
I find it very interesting that the Quran is misinterpreted very casually might I add by the maullanah for their own purposes. Needless to say, men are mostly the ones interpreting here, so why am I not surprised that the "woman" will just end up suffering. We can't live in the 7th century, nor did Allah intend us to . Yet as a nation, we prefer not answering crucial questions and end up piling them all in the "blind faith" section of our religion. I think God didn't mean that when he/she said having blind faith in the religion. I feel very sorry for that girl. I wish someone could help her.

59

Sure Faceup:

Let me give you another interpretation of the same ayat:

*[24:31]
And say to the Believing women that they cast down their eyes, guard their private parts, and not show their adornment, except what thereof is apparent, and let them draw their scarves over their bosoms; and let them not show their adornment, except to their husbands, or their fathers, or their husbands' fathers, or their sons, or their husbands' sons, or their brothers, or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or that their right hands own, or attendants out of men not having sexual need, or children who do not appreciate women's nudities; and let them not stamp their feet so that their hidden adornment becomes known; and turn to God all of you, O Believers, that you may prosper.(31)
*

We all should know that when you translate Quran to english, it may lose it's original meaning.

Different scholars interpret it in different ways. They are all agreed that the woman should be covered from head to foot, the only exception being the hands up the wrists, and the face.

Some scholars say that a womans beauty - her adornment lies in her face as well, so they suggest covering the face except the eyes.

I personally believe that it is up to the individual woman what methodology she chooses. Far be it from me - a man - to dictate to a woman my interpretation of that ayat.

60

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[This message has been edited by Astronut (edited September 21, 2000).]