Shameful deed of Pakistani Naval Officer

Society Military and Strategic Issues
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didn’t know what to make out of all this, I just hope these are only limited number of bad-apples, and this kind of attitude in not prevalent.

KARACHI: PN officials thrash on-duty policeman
By Our Staff Reporter

KARACHI, Jan 23: Two traffic police officials were injured on Friday by Pakistan Navy officials after they were stopped for violating a traffic signal on Sharea Faisal.

According to the traffic police officials and witnesses, a Toyota Hi-Ace of PNS Iqbal (48321), violated a traffic signal near the Finance and Trade Centre building.

A traffic police constable, Ghulam Haider, tried to stop the vehicle for violation. The PN officials got out of the vehicle and started harshly beating the traffic constable. They beating was so severe that Haider started bleeding from his nose and his face had swollen.

The Navy officials attempted to speed away but a traffic police crane operator, who witnessed the whole episode, intercepted the Navy vehicle with his crane-fitted small truck.However, the Navy officials allegedly hit the truck, which overturned. As a result, the crane operator, Rana Khalid, had his hand fractured at two different points, besides suffering minor head injury.

The people, who were witnessing the scene, gathered around the Navy officials and started condemning their action. Many traffic police officials also gathered there and the atmosphere got charged.

Meanwhile, a traffic police section officer intervened into the matter when the Navy officials were about to be beaten up by the people. He diluted the situation and allowed the Navy officials to go. No action has reportedly been taken by the Pakistan Navy against the officials responsible for the violence, while no PN official was available for comments

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Very sad indeed. Military personel in Pakistan think they are some kind of gods ever since they came to power. As for the poor police-walla, he learnt his lesson, I dont think he will stop anyone on such violations again.

3

how dare that policemen try to stop the just and superior rulers of pkistan ? they can do what ever they want !!

4

wat assholes and wat a bigger asshole that stopped the original assholes getting beaten up :mad:

5

the navy must interrogate and look into this as such incidents damage the image of the Navy a great deal. those sailors must be punished for their irresponsible actions.

By the way, Outlaw, the title of your thread is somewhat wrong as it says 'Shameful deed of Pakistani Naval OFFICER'
while the news report doesnt say those involved were 'officers'. the reprt only says 'officials' and that means they were probably noncommissioned.

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A sad by product of involvement in civilian affairs.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Zakk: *
A sad by product of involvement in civilian affairs.
[/QUOTE]

Its not exactly "involvement in civilian affairs", its more of a "show of power" by Navy against Police, which is repeated every now and then by Army, Air Force officials too.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Haris Zuberi: *

By the way, Outlaw, the title of your thread is somewhat wrong as it says 'Shameful deed of Pakistani Naval OFFICER'
while the news report doesnt say those involved were 'officers'. the reprt only says 'officials' and that means they were probably noncommissioned.
[/QUOTE]

Mr. lakeer kay fakeer, does it matter whether these clowns were commissioned or not?

Stories of army officials walking around as if the whole Pakistan is their jageer is nothing new. The policemen, journalist and ordinary civilians all get trampled on when they cross paths with army. Regardless of whose fault it is.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ghalib: *

Mr. lakeer kay fakeer, does it matter whether these clowns were commissioned or not?

Stories of army officials walking around as if the whole Pakistan is their jageer is nothing new. The policemen, journalist and ordinary civilians all get trampled on when they cross paths with army. Regardless of whose fault it is.
[/QUOTE]

oh mirzay(ghalib)...
keep your crappy lingo to yourself; that said let's move to the issue at hand.
the diff between an NCO and an officer is not that of a 'lakkeer ke fakeer' type. Officers are educated, well groomed, trained for more than 2 years in most armed forces of the world, while NCOs are enlisted after training periods that last for months. now whenever any memebr fo the armed forces is invloved in such civil lawlessness the procedure of punishment and investigation is diff for both genres of men; with an officer being the culprit the issue is far more complex and grave as an officer in whose grooming so much attention has been paid is liable for more as he is NOT expected to act irresponsible this way and his actions are taken much more seriously than that of a not so educated not so groomed enlisted man.
and by the way, let's not talk about whose 'jageer' Pakistan has been since creation; the real termites have been the civilians you know.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Haris Zuberi: *

oh mirzay(ghalib)...
keep your crappy lingo to yourself; that said let's move to the issue at hand.
the diff between an NCO and an officer is not that of a 'lakkeer ke fakeer' type. Officers are educated, well groomed, trained for more than 2 years in most armed forces of the world, while NCOs are enlisted after training periods that last for months. now whenever any memebr fo the armed forces is invloved in such civil lawlessness the procedure of punishment and investigation is diff for both genres of men; with an officer being the culprit the issue is far more complex and grave as an officer in whose grooming so much attention has been paid is liable for more as he is NOT expected to act irresponsible this way and his actions are taken much more seriously than that of a not so educated not so groomed enlisted man.
and by the way, let's not talk about whose 'jageer' Pakistan has been since creation; the real termites have been the civilians you know.
[/QUOTE]

That is not really true... From personal experience, most officers, usually captains in the army (despite being way down in terms of rank) have the ****tiest attitudes. I remember how one captain last year took his jawans and beat up 2 policemen posted at Peshawar Road. All they did was ask the captain to stop his motorbike and mend the silencer so that its not that darn loud.

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[QUOTE]
That is not really true... From personal experience, most officers, usually captains in the army (despite being way down in terms of rank) have the ****tiest attitudes. I remember how one captain last year took his jawans and beat up 2 policemen posted at Peshawar Road. All they did was ask the captain to stop his motorbike and mend the silencer so that its not that darn loud.
[/QUOTE]

I am wondering where were the superiors of this captain? His CO or the Station Commander? Don't they have to worry about the image of the army. One of my Uncles was telling me how as a young Captain he got into an argument with a shopkeeper shortly after 1965 war and how he was given a proper dressing down by his CO and the Station Commander. They were of the view that it is up to you to win people's respect not a job for the uniform. Infact you are supposed to respect the uniform by behaving properly when wearing it.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by mufakkar: *

I am wondering where were the superiors of this captain? His CO or the Station Commander? Don't they have to worry about the image of the army. One of my Uncles was telling me how as a young Captain he got into an argument with a shopkeeper shortly after 1965 war and how he was given a proper dressing down by his CO and the Station Commander. They were of the view that it is up to you to win people's respect not a job for the uniform. Infact you are supposed to respect the uniform by behaving properly when wearing it.
[/QUOTE]

I followed that incident closely, as that captain was a friend of mine. The problem was, his superiors fully supported him, not because he was right or wrong, but because usually the army is very united especially if it has something to do with police.

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spock and mufakkar, i agree with you guys to the point that there are often cases of such incidents every now and then, but the thing is, the Army or any of its personnel can not be caught or charged or even detained for a few hours by the police according to the law. if any military man is responsible for any crime etc he has to be caught by the military police not the state police and can not be charged by the civil law but by military law. If state police detains a militray employee without permission of any senior military officer or that particular person's CO etc, the military can takle legal action against the police. this law is not unique to Pakistan, it's the law in every nation with a military.

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You guys are right that military personnel can only be arrested by the military police.

A few years ago, when I was in Lahore, there was one very high profile instance of altercation between army and the police. The news reports were conflicting, initially, but what we were all able to figure out was that during chaand raat, an Army captain, who was not in uniform, was doing the rounds in Liberty market. As part of their action to round up stags and luchay lafangay, police was keeping a vigilant eye on the crowd. Turns out they rounded up this army captain, put him in the police pick-up and took him to the police station. The Army dude told them repeatedly that he is an Army captain and they will "pachtao gay", but the police Inspector paid no heed. Once they got to the police station, the police finally let the Army captain go after verifying his identification.

The Army guy went back to his battalion in Lahore Cantt, rounded up army jawaan and came back to the police station 3 hours later. All the army jawaans literally 'attacked' the police station. Stories were abound in the local papers that they fired so many rounds inside the station, and so terrorized the police, that the policemen who were inside the station, tore off their uniforms and came crying out of the station in their baniyaan and shorts, loudly claiming that they are not policemen and pls spare them. The army guy rounded up the police petrol who had arrested him, bound them with a rope, and attached the rope behind his military jeep. He dragged them all the way to Cantt where they beat them up even further and then dropped them back several hours later.

Make your own conclusions.

Those who were in Lahore at that time, must have heard about it, as this news story was in the papers for quite some time. Later on, both the army folks and the police folks compromised and killed the whole issue.

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salaam everyone....

.....the issue is there......n the sad part is: it has been extrapolated at national level......right from the start....1947 (Army chief defies orders of Governor General)........1999 (Govt-Army chief row....)....so thats all about it.......

...be it the "repo" of the armed forces (they didn`t come from Mars anyway) or the plight of Civil Armed Forces (including Police....), its been a sorry state of affairz throughout.......from propagating to handling......and, from investigating to bringing justice.......

...finally, we are a non procedural people.........n hence the people (and not procedures) are important........so why wonder if a general`s driver thrashes a constable....or a troops'-loaded truck rams into a civil police station in Mardan or Gulberg.....or an broad-arrow number plated vehicle is looted at Murree.....or two air force jets play havoc on M2 motor way......or an SSG major is abducted to tribal areas.......

(these are all "consequences"...lol......)

.....yeah, what all we can do (other than making not so fruitful discussions at our bars n shops n portals) is to appreciate the heart of problem n mend it at "our" ends........i`d try my bit, u do urs.......thats how we carry out effective problem solving.......

......let me sound clearer....armed forces are subject to two (R) two Rules of the Land.....

  1. Pakistan Constitution and all the subsequent laws n rules...(like PPC n MPO, etc)
  2. Respective Services' Acts......(PML in case of army, PAF Act in case of Air Force, and PN Regulations in case of Navy..)

Allah Bless us......

[n as regards the interrogation of the officials of the armed forces - like the captain detained at that very thaana - its again a procedure that the individual cannot be "detained" by civil police.....but may be held as such in civil police custody
(in case of a violation of Rule 1...the constitution or any derivative) till the time, respective military team comes n takes him over and detains/whatever does to him......but that is practised in extreme cases of clear violations of Pakistan Penal Code......like murder, etc.........see the bottom line: BOTH rules apply.....]

**

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Mehrtaab! :k:
welcome back! where have you been? nice to have you here again.

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thanx Haris.....

...i log on to GS n enjoy the place almost everytime i get time to surf...:)

how r u doing......hope well n in spirits....
take care..

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It seems an isolated incident.........why make such fuss then????

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It is not an isolated incident. It is part of the culture of army. They are just trying to emulate how their generals treat politicians

20

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Imdad Ali: *
It is not an isolated incident. It is part of the culture of army. They are just trying to emulate how their generals treat politicians
[/QUOTE]

any comments on how the politicians treat the common man...!?