separated from physically abusive husband for more than 6 months, contemplating divorce.
have a 6 year old daughter with him who lives with me now.
1.When I separated from him,my husband initially, pressurised me for reconciliation. I told him no, I had enough. I asked him repeatedly to settle the child visitation in those early weeks but every time I brought it up he ignored and instead demanded me to return him the jewellery and other gifts that had been given to me on my marriage and said he will only discuss seeing his daughter after I returned those things. I said I won’t since both by the islamic law and the law of the country those things belonged to me now.
later on about 2 months down the line he asked me let him see his daughter. I let him come ,he visited for 3 hours, brought her some toys, went back, called me made some very rude and nasty comments about my parenting and the way I was raising her. he also made some underhanded comments to my daughter about “the house her mother was forcing her to live in”. I didn’t respond to those because I didn’t want my daughter witnessing the exchange. (my family is financially less well off than his and our house is smaller and more simple)
I wanted my daughter to have her father in her life, since I don’t have father, brother, grandfather, not even any uncles, so there are practically zero father figures for her. my husband has been after me to let him see our daughter. several times I tried making plans with him to settle it once for all. but the problem is when I agree to make some arrangements like you can see her third sunday of every month and ask him to confirm etc, he doesn’t bother to reply back for days, when I call him he either wont take my calls, or when he does he barks at me that I disturbed him in the middle of something important.this then leads to crumbling of all the plans.
This cycle has gone on for the past 4 months… no contact, he begs to let him see his daughter, I reluctantly agree start to make plans, I propose date and time and ask him to confirm,either he wont reply or fly off the handle over one small detail that wasn’t to his liking,I tell him he has to learn to act civil with me if he wants to see her daughter,After a week or so of nothing from him he again starts bugging me accusing me of cutting him off from his daughter’s life.
I know he is using manipulative tactics and i am not handling it well.
allowed phone conversations, caught him recording the phone call with her! I fear he might use it later to take custody. there wasn’t anything in that conversation that could be used against me but I don’t trust him.he has secretly recorded phone conversations with me in the past too in hope of proving that I was an unfit mother, so I don’t trust him and told him he can’t talk to her on the phone any more.
worth mentioning, I have always tried my best to polite with him while talking to him to fix date for visits. for the sake of my daughter I wanted to have a civil relationship with him. I want him to be a part of my daughter’s life, even considered inviting him over for a school event but later changed my mind seeing his behaviour. I also fear Allah, he is still her father and I do not want to cut ties between him and her daughter. but he has gone that far off saying that he doesn’t want his name on her birth certificate under father’s name, he hasn’t given me a penny for her expenses and I struggle financially.even when we were living with him he acted very stingy in day to day living and save for her school fees he did not pay for anything.
what to do now? cut off all contact with him? because settling the child visit thing is proving to be such a struggle and leave me drained emotionally.
how bad it would me for my daughter not to grow up with any male figure? any real life examples/ experiences of such circumstances will be greatly appreciated.
Re: shall I allow my husband to be a part of my daughter's life? advice needed
Leave it all to divorce court. They will decide when and how will be get to visit his daughter.
From all what you are saying it seems he is behaving like a mad dog. His power hungry ego got hurt by you getting out of circle of violence. He is still thinking in his mind that he is hurting you by his stupid and jerk like behavior. He does whatever he is doing and feels satisfaction by thinking that his is still in control of your and your daughter's life. He thinks that this way he is punishing you still although you are out of his reach now.
As I said He is a mad dog ignore him. Whenever he calls for visitation reply him with a text message and let him know the time and date and place he can see his daughter also specify the time limit for this visit.
Keep record and have impartial witnesses of all your efforts to provide him chance to see his daughter. Make sure he has no chance of proving that you are a bad mother and he is an angel. But do not go out of your way to prove that you are not trying to cut him off of his daughter's life.
Re: shall I allow my husband to be a part of my daughter's life? advice needed
^That
I'd leave it to the divorce courts or a third party in the mean time to coordinate the visits..
He probably won't have the guts to mess them around.. I think you should keep personal communication to a minimum because he's obviously trying to mess with your head.. By not returning txts or calls or having a go at you he's trying to show he has control.. Don't give him the satisfaction and remove yourself from all this drama for your own peace and sanity..
Re: shall I allow my husband to be a part of my daughter's life? advice needed
go to divorce court. let them settle the visitation privileges. your financial situation and or the size of your house is not an issue or an obstacle. your parenting should not be questioned by someone who doesn't respect his wife or child.
i think you shouldn't settle the matter yourself. go to court, get them straighten out the visitation arrangements, keep yourself as far away as possible.
Re: shall I allow my husband to be a part of my daughter's life? advice needed
I'm thirding the divorce court deciding. Tell him if he wants to communicate he needs to talk to your lawyer. Do not talk to him, do not pick up his phone calls. He needs to fix a phone call time with your lawyer, and wait for the court to decide the visit timings.
A friend of mine was going through the exact same thing. Her husband was abusive and she took the divorce with a one year old.
Her husband would threaten her, tell her that he would take away his child, prove she was an unfit mother. She set up meetings via the court. The guy didn't show up to any, did not pay any child support and the judge himself got pissed off and canceled them all because the guy was proving himself to be a unfit parent.
Re: shall I allow my husband to be a part of my daughter's life? advice needed
I have no idea why you're trying to play lawyer/judge in this situation. Hasn't this circus gone on long enough? Within the next few days, contact a good divorce attorney and follow their advice. File for divorce and get a judge to sign off on custody/visitation agreements/times etc.
how bad it would me for my daughter not to grow up with any male figure? any real life examples/ experiences of such circumstances will be greatly appreciated.
I have several friends who grew up without a father for one reason or another. All of them turned out fine (ie. they all are highly educated, married...a few have kids of their own etc.). Its not the ideal situation but it's not going to necessarily hurt a child either. I imagine it sucks to grow up without a father figure....but here is what's worse in my experience.....growing up with a father who is abusive. I have met quite a few women over the years who ended up in abusive relationships....who have very low self-esteem and believe that its ok for a man to hit them, verbally/emotionally abuse them, and that's what a "normal" marriage should be. All b/c they grew up in a household where they watched their mother being treated like this by their father. It's a cycle of violence that doesn't stop b/c no one has the guts to walk-out of the abusive relationship and set a better example for the next generation.
You grew up without a male figure in your life....yet look at what you've managed to accomplish. Even living in Pakistan and with a young daughter, you are strong enough to walk away from a situation where you're being abused. That takes a lot of courage. Think about what you'd want your daughter to do if God forbid she ends up in a abusive marriage in the future. What example do YOU want to set for her?
Re: shall I allow my husband to be a part of my daughter's life? advice needed
I didn't get a chance to read your whole post but with divorce courts if you are in the US, you would have to have a really strong reason and evidence of why he shouldn't see his child. If he has been violent with your daughter, hit her as in not just spank her when she has been misbehaving, the judge would decide that he may not have the right to see her. But most likely if he is only abusive to you, physically and verbally and not your daughter, then the judge will favor the child see her father every other weekend. Be ready to see his face during school events. I think that's the hardest for divorced parents, they have to be the most mature when it comes to facing a person that hurt them for so many years and they would have to be civil. Hard as heck.
Re: shall I allow my husband to be a part of my daughter's life? advice needed
Its still good for little girl to see her father but leave it up for court to decide. You should minimize your communication with him. Get a lawyer and ask him to communicate to your lawyer if he need a visitation etc.
He is just pissed off because you are not under his control anymore. Bruised up ego you know.
Re: shall I allow my husband to be a part of my daughter's life? advice needed
thank you for all your advice @paheli i am not trying to play judge. it just that I haven't decided whether to go ahead with the divorce or not.
I was about to file but then stopped at the last minute... probably I will get bashed for saying this, but the social implications of divorce scared me. Two of my co workers went through divorce last year and both of them advised me not to rush it. life post divorce in pakistan in much more difficult than it is in the west and I have been more encouraged by people to stay separated and married then get divorced.
I haven't made up my mind yet, I am still weighing all the pros and cons,waiting for my life to get more stable financially and socially in the next few months before I take this big step.
Re: shall I allow my husband to be a part of my daughter's life? advice needed
This is your decision but think hard about the implications on your daughter. I think it's better to be on your own than be in an abusive marriage which your daughter is witnessing.
Also don't tell our daughter beforehand if a visit is arranged as if he lets her down n doesn't show up the will upset her.
U also need to record conversations so u can use this.
Re: shall I allow my husband to be a part of my daughter's life? advice needed
I understand that u r not ready, as sometimes decisions taken too quickly r not always right. But just remember that your daughter is your priority here, do what is right for both u n her.
Growing up in a household were here is always fighting n arguing can do a lot of damage n mess up kids.
Re: shall I allow my husband to be a part of my daughter's life? advice needed
It's perfectly fine to keep the separation until you're ready. The divorcee label is one that will be judged and some people even think that women should continue doing sabr even if they're beaten to a pulp. Ultimately you will realise these people are just vultures and your own self preservation is important. But there's no harm in letting yourself catch your breath.
Even if it's just a separation for now you should still consult with a lawyer. Many if you must because shopping around for lawyers is necessary. Some guys for a good pay day will want to push for a divorce rather than give you advice on what you can do during a separation so be cautious about who you choose.
Even if you continue to achieve some normalcy for your daughter with informal visits just remember that raising her expectations for a father who doesnt pull through is worse than having none. Just the mention of her father might make her anxious, sad or resentful (especially if she witnessed the aftermath of the abuse) so instead of yoyoing her emotions be 100% sure the dad is willing.
The guy is all talk and no bite because if he really wanted his daughter for anything more than powerplay he would had done far more to keep in touch. Ask any of the fathers here on this forum and they will agree. So just keep a record do the communication and record phone calls.
Lastly I want to say is friend who got divorced is now in so much peace. She has her job and her son and that's all that matters. No more mil and husband beating her, no more demands, no threatening phone calls. After the courts made some harsh comments about the absent father all her mental worries that the court would find her incompetent have disappeared. She does face snide comments and awkward new acquaintances making mistakes about her marital status but the peace she's gotten far out weighs the bad.
Re: shall I allow my husband to be a part of my daughter’s life? advice needed
By the judge/lawyer comment, I meant that it most likely is not up to you to decide whether or not your daughter will have any contact with her father….especially since you two are still married and thus, share equal custody. And not being a lawyer, you don’t even know the the law/un-spoken rules in the courts are regarding this.
If you were in the U.S., you would not be able to stop him from seeing his child. If you did, it would actually hurt your case in the court during a divorce proceeding. I have no idea what the laws in Pakistan are regarding this and I imagine neither do you. Even if you’re not 100% sure about divorce yet…..you still should go see some divorce lawyers to understand what you can and cannot do during this separation period….especially regarding your daughter. You don’t want to do something and later have it come hurt in the court IF you do choose to file for divorce.
Re: shall I allow my husband to be a part of my daughter's life? advice needed
I think you should procede for the divorce now or later, its upto you. To be divorced is not a bad thing in Islam, it is our culture and jahil people who blame women for being divorced and speak bad. Our prophet (PBUH) married to a divorced women in his life, I dont remember her name exactly but I think it was zainab bint jahash, I think a single parent is better than to be in a broken relationship for your daughter.
Re: shall I allow my husband to be a part of my daughter's life? advice needed
A female relative was in an abusive marriage in Pakistan, she had a young child.
She hid her ordeal from her family, until one day the husband almost beat her to death. Her brother happened to visit her at the time, it was Eid,and he intervened.
They went through the courts, after visitations, no shows etc, the court had enough and so did the father. He had zero interest in his son. His parental rights were terminated. She moved from one end of the country to the other. She has not looked back, it has been many years now. That young child has grown into a fine young man. This relative listened to all the talk about her, she never remarried. She moved forward for the sake of her life and her child.
Re: shall I allow my husband to be a part of my daughter's life? advice needed
Touche,
You're right that the life of a divorcee especially if she already has a child is not easy around desis even in the west. Remarriage is something that is most likely 10% of a chance if she is lucky but if you have even the tiniest thought that the marriage might work in the future then don't go for divorce. Divorce should only be taken if all possibilities of the marriage working are exhausted or if you are sure that there is no chance that you want to stay in the marriage after trying every way to make the marriage work from your side and even then a lot of thought should be put into this ginormous decision.
I think you should let your husband see his child. If he has never hurt her physically, then it would be cruel of you to not let your daughter have a father figure as much as he has hurt you. He will always be her father. You must be civil with him during the separation even if you have the tiniest hope that it would work out or even if you don't think it would, divorced parents also have to be civil with each other or else they have to answer to the guardian et litem(the child's lawyer) and the judge.
Re: shall I allow my husband to be a part of my daughter's life? advice needed
If she goes for separation instead of divorce, she'll still be "on her own." Daughter is not witnessing dad's abuse toward mom as currently they're living separate from dad....based on my understanding. The issue at hand is dad's brainwashing of the daughter against her mom.....which can even take place after divorce....but might come with restrictions for dad.
Touche......How does your daughter feel about the negative things he says about you? If they are only making her mad at her father, you should calmly let him know this. It sends him the message that his strategy is backfiring.
Also, what if you were to calmly tell your husband that the bad things he says about you to your daughter is making you contemplate divorce more seriously and when this reason is mentioned to the lawyer....it may result in judge deciding that daughter gets to spend even LESS time with her dad as such behavior is damaging to daughter's well-being and hurts her relationship with both parents. Talk to him....and let's see what he says. He might get scared.....since he's so against a divorce.....and tone it down. If he stops the brainwashing......then maybe separation could be enough. If he doesn't stop.....then u can think harder on the divorce. But perhaps this discussion will give you some direction since you're confused/undecided right now. During this process....do istikhara repeatedly until your heart and mind and the upcoming events all lead you to a final decision. Best wishes.
Re: shall I allow my husband to be a part of my daughter's life? advice needed
I think you should let your husband see his child. If he has never hurt her physically, then it would be cruel of you to not let your daughter have a father figure as much as he has hurt you.
I'm don't agree, emotional and mental abuse is sometimes worse than physical abuse. If he has been abusive towards the mother the child must have witnessed this and this can scar children for life. And who knows how he treated the child. What was his relationship like with your daughter? Did he spend much time with her? Look after her?
So think carefully before allowing him access to your child. I don't even think he is interested in his child, it's all just a play for Power! To show he can still control her.
Re: shall I allow my husband to be a part of my daughter's life? advice needed
thank you for all your replies
I have a good lawyer, discussed things with him right after my separation. he doesn't think i will have any problems getting custody of my daughter. not letting him see his daughter is not going to have a negative effect later at the time of custody. in Pakistan the custody rules are pretty simple. he hasn't been able to hold down to a stable job in the past 5 years, he doesn't have any female relative/family member to help him take care of his daughter.. courts in pakistan take this into consideration too while deciding custody of a female child.
I agree with strangeone and fefe, its more about the power play and the wish to keep interfering, control? in our lives than love for his daughter, had he wanted to there were several ways and occasions in the past 6 months he could have been there for her. For example, she had her birthday 3 months ago and he could have done something for her, sent a present, cake or even a card, but he did't even bother to call, all the time accusing me of cutting him off from her life. I don't know if its worth mentioning or not but when we left we had to leave most of her clothes and all her beloved toys and books behind.me and her too have repeatedly ask him to send those because she misses her things. I even agreed to reimburse the money spent on the shipment, but he chose not to. If he cared about her, I think he would have but he rather hold on to her toys.
my daughter was taking a very negative influence from the way he was treating me and even copied some of the things which he did, which was very disturbing, but alhumdollilah in the past 6 months she has forgotten all of that. @salam2k14, he was never previously hit her before but things were moving in that direction, once he charged at her but I pushed her behind me and he stopped himself too, another time he got angry at her, held her by the neckline of her shirt and ripped her shirt which he knew was her favourite, all the way down.he hasn't made regular visits post sep so I can't say for sure how it would effect her. last visit, she was indifferent, didn't look forward to his coming, didn't miss him after he left.
sister RV, he is a self righteous idiot ..LOL.... I tried telling him that he actions are only pushing his daughter away from him, but he put the blame on me ...saying I was turning her against him, and the physical abuse she had to witness was also my fault, if I wasn't such a b***h then he wouldn't had to beat me and our daughter wouldn't had to witness the abuse. so directly or indirectly, he always ends up blaming me, I gave up reasoning with him a long time ago.
so, I think what I am going to do right now is cut off contact with him for few months. he needs to know he doesn't control us any more. meanwhile I try to stabilise myself more and try reaching upon a decision .
salaam2k14, things are changing but even then life is difficult for divorced women. they are thought of as damaged goods, easy prey by men and blamed by women for taking the "easy way out" and not sticking in there. but I have reached a point where I don't care any more about what people say, people will always talk, no matter what. these people won't be there save me from getting beaten up if I reconcile, nor has any of them come to my help in the past 6 months of being on my own. so I don't care anymore. :)