Sir Fraudia, those are just innovations. People create them and they THINK they are doing something good and something that will please the Imam Ali(who is dead) and something that will please Allah. Its ignorent of people that they have created those ways of worship.
No where in hadith, or Quran does Allah say you need a peice of clay to pray.
*V~V~V*He came, He saw, He conquered*V~V~V*
[quote]
Originally posted by Fraudz:
**I had one more question.
My shia friends pray using a small clay bar for sajda. the reasoning was that you have to do sajdah on the ground and the jai namaz and rugs etc we use are not ground.
Is this the correct reason, and is it the complete reason.
Someone also told me that the clay must come from the grounds at karbala. Others said that is not true otherwise there as so many shia brethren in the world that there would be a grand canyon at karbala if they dug out clay for everyone.
Additionally, the significance of "alamm" during moharram?
Correct me if I am wrong but that is not a part of shia belief but is just a way to show devotion right?
My family has not done much of the koonday and halwa at eid milad an nabi or shab e baraat, and was told that doing so is okay as long as its done with the intention of celebrating rather than considering it as a part of religion..**
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The sajdagah can be anything that is not used to eat or put on body. The whole idea is doing sajda on a pak (purified) place. Its just a fiqahee masala. The whole idea behind doing sajda is ** submission to Allah** no matter who does sajda or how he/she does sajda, the whole point is feeling the essence of doing sajda and crushing one's desires, because when one submits himself to Allah, he/she will not bow down to anybody or anything else.
Yes Aalam is just a symbol recognizing or symbolizing the incident of karbala. ** one should always focus on the rooh of amal (soul and reason behind an action), therefore it is not aalam or cloth of wood that we focuss on, we focus and remeber the person who used to carry that aalam(hazrat abbas), and then we should try to follow the awesome traits of hazrat abbas's personality that included sacrifice , shujaat, and tolerance.
thanks for your comments brother.
yours,
Shair.
Excuse me… I think you lost me here, Shair. What are you trying to say? Can you please elaborate and explain this part “when told about the events of Karbala”?
Thanks!
Re: sajda. I have some shia people where I work, and they use a piece of wood at the place of sajda. The reasoning they give is that the place of sajda should be something natural (i.e. by God), like wood, clay etc. My question to them was that, I had heard that while in the posture of sajda, both your forehead and the tip of the nose should be touching the ground. If this is correct, and if you use a small square of wood to place your forehead, then the tip of the nose is not touching anything, so is it ok? They didn’t had any answer to that. Maybe shair or some other shia can put somemore light on this issue.
Re: koonday and halwa. Well, they are quite tasty (usually), right? I am sorry, but I believe that is all to koonday. I never realized there is any religious significance to it, is there?
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Adios!
PS: I agree, that this is probably the most civilized exchange between shias and sunni on this forum, for quite some time. We will all do well, to maintain this moderate tone.
thanks for your feedback bro pristine. your comments are always welcome. well, reagrding the masaib part, yes prophet mohammed (s.a.w.w) used to cry when he was informed about martyrdom of imam hussein (a.s). Prophet mohammed (s.a.w.w) had knowledge about certain things in future, just the same way he taught us about the signs of qiyamat, he had knowledge about the events in karbala.
You have a right to dispute again, no force.
your brother,
shair
brother pristine,
We guys are sooooooooo lucky to eat koonday kee puriyan and halim. Wanna join us? jk.
I think Mr. Fraudia mentioned this point earlier about hitting yourself and wailing loudly when someone dies, you're right, Islam doesnt allow it.
shair:
No, its absolutely correct that the Prophet (PBUH) had knowledge about certain events of the future. Unfortunately, these days, due to strong wahabi propaganda, which tries to belittle the status of our Prophet (PBUH), not many people believe such things. That was why, I was a bit confused about your comments, as I didn’t knew what you were getting at.
Re: koonday. Don’t underestimate my capabilities. When it comes to koonday, yummmm… I am there, man!
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Also, its just our luck that three of our neighbours are shias
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so even if we don’t attend the majlis, the goodies are always sent to us in platters
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You never enlightened us about the sajda part further. Can you pls find out and let me know about the point I mentioned earlier.
Take care.
[This message has been edited by Pristine (edited October 12, 2000).]
salam all,
First of all wiladat of sher-e-Khuda Hazrat Ali (as) mubarak to all momineen....
The basic diff between shias and sunnis is the matter of immamate......
Now before to discuss this matter in light of hadiths we should try and see what QURAN has to say about immamat
As we know Hazrat Ali (as) and Bani hashims were of Hazrat Ibrahims nasal......now lets see what quran says here
"And when Allah tried Ibrahim (as) by word which he fulfilled, He said verily I am to make you Imam (leader) over men; Ibrahim (as) implored if also he will be from his progeny? Allah replied (yes,but) His convenant embraces and reaches no wrong doer's." 2:124
The ayat clearly states that Allah promised Hazrat Ibrahim (as) that the honor of imamat will be in his progney i.e. Aulaad-e-Ali (as)
There are many other ayats as well as hadiths....i.e. Bukhari and Muslims (books called 100% authentic by sunni brothers) have hadiths, in whcih Hazoor (pbuh) stating there will be 12 sardars after him.....
So my sunni brothers tell me what you make of dua-e-Ibrahim from quran.....
First of all, (if you are really new here), then ‘Welcome to Gupshup’ !
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Second, based on your comment above, I hope you can also contribute your bit in the other thread ‘Celebrating Birthdays’ also in this ‘Religion’ forum.
Is it? Hazrat Ali (RA) was a righteous caliph, as accepted by all muslims (well, its a historic fact, right?) so yes he was an Imam/leader of muslims.
This is true. So now what? Surely we can’t go back 1500 years and change the history. Hazrat Abu Bakr (RA) became the first caliph after Prophet (PBUH). No one can deny it, nor can we now change the history. So why continually fight over it.
We don’t know what happened in those days, except what has been transferred to us in written or verbal form, passed on to future generations of sahaba and islamic scholars. Anyone can make mistakes, even the Prophets made mistakes, so obviously any sahabi or islamic scholar can also make a mistake. This issue is discussed in depth in many threads here including a recent one ‘Sunni brothers how do you answer this’. Go check them out.
The basic question is:** Why is it presumed that shias and sunnis have to fight non-stop? Whats the point and the purpose and the end of it all?** All are muslims so should live the lives according to Islamic teachings. Leave interpretation of history to itself, and stop fighting wars which are already over.
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Cheers!
hey Prstine, u dont know what u r talking abt. Ozman is talking abt imammat, what he meant by that is 12 imams that shia follow, starting from Hazrat Imam Ali to Imam Mahdi (as). Immamat has nothing to do with caliphate.
So dont give him hard time.
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[This message has been edited by Pathan Bhai (edited October 12, 2000).]
Pathan bhai:
I still don’t understand whats the point.
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All those 12 (or is it 11?) Imams were pious momineen who gave guidance to muslims. They were ahl-e-bayat and we resepect them. So, what is the point of contention?
I was talking about the historical events where Hazrat Abu Bakr (RA) became the first caliph and Hazrat Ali (RA) became the fourth caliph. And my question is… why are some muslims still keeping this issue alive and contentious and keep fighting over it? Isn’t it over? When will it be over? We can’t change the history books now? So why keep on fighting wars which are already over?
Anyone, please enlighten me?
brother pristine I understand what you are saying and i couldnt agree more.
No one wants to fight over what happened after Prohpet Muhammed (P) died. Its a well known fact and ever1 knows it. But the main thing is r we followng the true thing. R we on true path. R we doing what rasool came to taught us. Because my dearest brother remmember once we will be there on the day of judgement then the question will be asked, Were u just following what you were told or did you try finding the truth? U know what i mean
I appreciate the peaceful thoughts u have for muslim ummah, and what will be a bigger success if we all get united and kick enimies ass. But unfortunately things like WAHABIYAT has began to take over musalmans..extremly bad n sad dont u think!
Pathan bhai:
I am glad you got my point.
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Re: Wahabiat… you can open another thread if you want. However, it will only bring more contentious issues up, which will again harm the cause of muslim unity. For the moment, we should concentrate on the basics, Quran and Shariah, and live our lives according to those Islamic teachings, which we believe are correct and true. Everyone will go to their own graves. Spread knowledge, if someone doesn’t accept, then too bad (for them). Move on. And be Happy!