Re: Shaikh Rashid
not sure which specific one you are talking about cap..there was one time when it first started was when the ISI guys helped round up there MNAs the first time..one trapped MNA ran over to the PPP side screaming bachao bachao!
Nawaz learnt from the best..
Re: Shaikh Rashid
heck if all that corruption, extortion, ghunda gardee, dada geeri, and in general haram zadgi was not her exercising total power, then I underestimated her evil-ness 
Re: Shaikh Rashid
^ either that or you still don't know what was really going on :)
Re: Shaikh Rashid
even though I am not impressed with his personality, but he represents a common man from Pakistan.
no one has kick started his political culture, he started himself. he was active student leader, he planned to be politician. even as kid when he helped old people for grocery or help paying bills at banks, it was in his mind that one day he will get return as votes from these people.
Thats one of the reason he hasnt lost a single election since 20 years or so. everytime he was jailed in Ayub era, Bhutto Era and i think BB and Zia era as well, everytime he went to jail he completed a degree or a book. his LLB and MA were passed while he was in Jail. last time I think during BB he wrote a book.
He may not show a humble personality or educated one, his language may speak street language or speak too much. he didnt get his parialment seat cause he was son of feudal or something . So I think either we like it or not. he is a career politician and better than many feudal elites(so called). looking at our Pakistan population, how many people you see are from atchison, oxford or harvard?? except some political elite group whose parents sucked Pakistan blood to back that.
about his move to railway, I think cause of his outspoken views about sensitive matters as information minister which were sometime contradicting with Pakistan foreign office or PM or President.
Re: Shaikh Rashid
Shaks, he dosent represent the establishment elite, you are right on this, but with all his goodwill and khidmat he didnt win a single election...it was a loan that he got in Zia era for 8 crore rupees for a bee farm, which was later written off by Zia, gave him the seed money to win his first elections.
Now how many common men do you know who first of all can get a loan for 1 crore and then get it written off?
Re: Shaikh Rashid
Really, you've conveniently left out the biggest tyrant in the history of South Asia, ZAB, nobody can match the lengths he went to in order to stay in power, i.e. dismembering the country, assasinating political opponents, bombing/straffing his own citizenary, harrassing and subjugating the masses through his secret police, FSF, bankrupting the country, driving the industrialist away by seizing their assets and nationalizing their corporations, thereby forever damaging the country's industrial base...and etc. etc. etc...
Re: Shaikh Rashid
Che its must be a typo, my bad.
Re: Shaikh Rashid
Where did Sheikh Rashid get his education from? Benazir is from some good institute I hear but what good did we get from Benazir? Both of them may be from some reputable institutes but I'm sure their teachers now would be ashamed that their students are such jaahil insaans despite being educated.
Re: Shaikh Rashid
No prob...as long as you don't hold that insidious pathetic drunkard on some sort of a high pedastal as most PPP jialays do...
Re: Shaikh Rashid
As for as I know he was from Garden or Gorden College R.Pindi and else private exams from Jail. I was exactly making the same point you said, we dont need such harvard of oxford grads, we need politicians who are from common people background. and we dont need to be ashamed of what our laymen are like.
MInime, I dont know about such load, if he had, no exception comparing to all of our beloved politicians. how ever i dont agree with he didnt win elections. actually has done it when PP was in full swing, Q league or NS or being independant, and credit should be given even we like him or not. he elected by people of the area.
Re: Shaikh Rashid
^ Gordon College Pindi... It was a pretty good college back then, and he was always into politics, even in his student life... Trust me, its easy for him to win the seat from Rawalpindi, even if he does not rig the elections...
zak etc, i dont like sheedah talli but you guys cant use him to justify your hatred for the mush govt., I mean sheedah is an elected rep. of the country afterall.
Re: Shaikh Rashid
[quote]
MiniMe wrote:
Because people like Musharaf would do any thing to stay in power just like Zia, BB, NZ or the MMA. Its a system based on exploitation of masses in the name of religion, economy, and wars.
[/quote]
[quote]
Zakk wrote:
^ the difference is democratically elected leaders can't assume absolute power only Military ones can ...and we all know how absolute power corrupts don't we?
[/quote]
I do not think that absolute power necessarily corrupts a person but I believe that absolute power helps in making a person corrupt. There are many people who have little power but are absolute corrupts while history is full of people that had a lot of power and were still incorruptible (that is true even now).
Apart of Quaid-e-Azam (and probably Liaquat Ali Khan) I don’t think that any politician in Pakistan had absolute power except Z A Bhutto. Amongst them Z A Bhutto was the only corrupt and selfish (though Bhutto also did a lot of good for the country).
Then we had four military rulers that have/had absolute power, namely Ayub, Yahya, Zia and Musharaf. Amongst them Ayub Khan was dedicated to the country but had lot of people around him that were corrupts. Financially, I consider Ayub as moderately corrupt (that shows in wealth of his son, Gauhar Ayub). Yahya Khan was morally corrupt and incompetent ruler but financially not corrupt at all. Zia was a humble person, his financial corruption was moderately to low but his sectarian beliefs destroyed Pakistan.
From what I know and analyse, Musharaf is probably the best ruler Pakistan ever had. He is tolerant, dedicated to Pakistan, intelligent, have vision and certainly financially incorruptible (that is until now, I do not know about future). When he came to power in October 1999 many western newspaper wrote on him appraising him as intelligent and thinking general. I have never seen western media (TVs, radios and newspapers) covering speeches of anyone (even western politicians) other then him even when his suppose to be audience were Pakistanis. He is the only leader in the world that had the guts to call spade a spade from western platform, telling west (USA) making speech in USA, that clapping needs both hand and that if west want reduction in terrorism, they have to give just rights to Palestinians and others, that need to be seen too. He is the only leader from anywhere that accused west of facilitating corrupts keeping their wealth and that west should return the wealth accumulated by corrupts in their country (Note: even now west are reluctant to do that. In west, it is illegal to have money from drugs but not corruption).
** As for gathering corrupt politicians around him, it is necessity for Pakistani development then his personally need. This farce democracy in the country has given him political faces to show the world that helps in appeasing western world so that Pakistan benefits from external relations that helps in trades, access to funds, technology and developments. Now it is unfortunate of the country that most that can take part in elections and can get to parliament are corrupts. These are the politicians that people elect and send to parliament, so one cannot blame anyone other then electorates.**
As for his need, we have to remember that Pakistan army brought him into power (against the wishes of west, especially USA) and as long as he has control over the army, no one can budge him. Well, if majority of the people would get against him and come on the road then probably they can make the army go against him and he would be asked to resign (by the army). It seems that this is unlikely.
As time is passing, Musharaf is becoming more popular and stronger. To bring people on the road now is more difficult then few years ago, especially after 9/11. But then, when MMA and all parties combine could not do anything to him just after 9/11 when emotion of many were high, there is no chance that political parties could ever be able to gather enough strength to take him out of power (if he do not want to leave voluntarily). As for NS and his party, they could not do anything when NS got kicked out of office, put into jail, got convicted of hijacking and under terrorism law (brought by NS himself) was given life imprisonment. As for BB, her party is waning force in Pakistan and regardless, they were never strong enough to do much, even against NS when NS was keeping AAZ in prison. It seems that all these three parties are impotent.
As for having absolute corrupts in Pakistan, we had three greats (NS, BB and AAZ), none ever had absolute power (though one, NS started thinking that he has and thus wanted to start ‘Shareef Khalafat’ similar to Umayyad, Abbasid and Ottoman Khalafat (rivaling the Khalafat in Afghanistan of commander of the faithful, One eyed Mullah-Umar). It took hard kick on his butt from army boot that got him out of dream world into reality.
Amongst these three corrupts, I believe that AAZ leads all in corruption (anyone in the world) with NS and BB not so far behind. Believe me, even individual stories of their corruption in western world is more then combined stories of corrupts from anywhere in the world. I believe these three combined covers over 75 percent of corruption stories in western media, related to world leaders.
Re: Shaikh Rashid
Hey man My maamo(passed away) was also in the same class, and he described Sh. rasheed as the "Lafanga" of the batch.