When I go to Pakistan, I usually cook, shop, clean for servants. I think I am better than them. People think I am crazy. Who cares...lol
This time I will spend a week as a full time job to pick plastic bags from the streets. Anyone wants to join me? :)
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*Originally posted by Poodenay_Ki_Chutney: *
fraudiay
secondly Nadia generalised, over the insignificant experiences she had in Pakistan ...
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This has been a running theme through out the thread over *Nadia's generalization *. But if one really examines the issues that have been brought up in this thread, * they are misunderstandings*. If you disagree, go and read Nadia's initial post, there isn't any generalization in there. She talks about her experience adjusting to the concept of servants.
There is no need for anyone to get offended, no generalizations (negative or positive) have been made about the Pakistani people.
In my observations, which ofcourse provide a limited viewpoint, "servants" in South Asian countries are often ill treated. There are some people who treat their household help with more dignity than others.
Muni, God Bless you. Dil sai dua nikalta hai.
Muni, let's say you and i disagreed regarding an issue; the manner in which you present your perspectives will make a substantial difference, personally, to me. If you start using personal insults and utilizing statements like "go fool someone else", then not only does that completely turn me off from the very outset - before i even give you a decent chance of listening to your arguments - but it makes me instinctively doubt everything else you would state whether or not it's accurate.
If, on the other hand, you use a mode of persuasion that Hazrat Muhammad (peace and Blessings be upon him) used, a gentle and respectful tone, then that makes a world of difference in how i will treat your differing opinion. Afterall, isn't he our best example of how to live as a human being. If even HE, of all human beings, could treat his worst foes with such kindness, then who are we to do otherwise! If you state why you disagree with me respectfully, and we happen to disagree, i would still respect you and wait until the end for you to finish your points of view. If you look at the WA Forum, there are some American Guppies with whom i have very differing opinions (especially when it comes to Iraq and the US), but we have never once since September of last year exchanged verbal insults. Do i respect them all the more for that? Yes. Am i willing to hear them out? Definitely. ONLY because of the manner in which they have presented their points of view.
Anyways, thank you Muni a million times. i really appreciate it.
Nadia-
I absolutely agree, the manner in which one conducts him/herself is more important than the opinions. Mash'Allah, most guppies understand this and follow common rules of courtesy.
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*Originally posted by Fraudz: *
*Originally posted by hskhan: *
** The dumbest thing ive heard from paks gov. Dont they realize that the these servants get paid! Thats better than them sitting on the side of the road scamming people. **
I dont think the issue is thatthe servents get paid. they are making a point that there need to be regulations regarding domestic servants to prevent the type of abuse that does take place.
as far as a kid getting abused, abuse is abuse, whether he is being abused by some beggers ring to make money for them, is a bonded labourer in some sweatshop, or being slapped around or worked to death in some upstarts house.
*The money the servants get is for them to spend. They can spend it on education, food, or clothes. Its their choice. *
The other studies indicate thatsometime these servants are working 15-16 hours each day. education is a little bit of an issue there.
*If mushy and his little elves really wanted to help why not divert all the money from his "military" into "education" *
Becauseground realties are different and defence is something thatis needed as well. However even if they divert all the money to education. How would a servant kid who works 16 hours a day take advantage of the education? this is as much of a social issue as it is an economic issue.
**
which country in the world says people are being deprived of education, but then gos and buys 100 new tanks. Only in pakistan my fellow guppies. Only in pakistan. **
actually there are a number of other countries that are in the same situation. All you need to do is go and read about the condition of these people. And right now we are only talking about domestic servants, and not sweatshops and bonded labour, when we start talking about it the level of potential and actual abuse increases and the list of countries which have these issues greatly increases as well.
*The people who hire these servants are doing them a favor. These people learn tasks and get some money. *
learn tasks? okay..
*Many people who have servants give their children education (my fam does). Paks gov isnt givin them money for education...but we (the employers of the servant) are. *
so many families do, and many families do not. This does not change the fact that the potential for abuse exists because there are no regulations governing the issue of domestic servants.
It would be much better if there were regulations ranging from minimum wages, to hours of work, types of duties that are part of the servants work and those that are not.
Since all ppl with servants are so benevolent, I am sure they wont mind.
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Nice points. Hehe..sorry about that gramatical error. ;)
i HATE THE IDEA OF SLAVERY.
DO YOUR OWN WORK. I HATE IT HOW AN OLD SERVANT IS 50 YRS OLDER BUT A LITTLE 16YR WILL ORDER HIM/HER TO SERVE HIM/HER WITH WATER. LAZY BUMBS....
I HATE IT. I USE TO MAKE MY OWN TEA, PUT MY OWN PLATE ON DINNER TABLE, BRING MY OWN ROTI FROM KITCHEN WHILE IT IS FRESH MADE IN KITCHEN. IRON MY OWN CLOTH. IMAGINE HAVING TO DO IRON OF CLOTHES FOR WHOLE FAMILY EVERYDAY.
I CAN NOT UNDERSTAND WHY PEOPLE JUST CAN NOT DO THEIR OWN WORK. SLAVES ARE HUMAN! MUST BE TREATED ACCORDINGLY.
domestic servents are NOT slaves. there is a potential that they can be abused. Fact of the matter is that from my personal expereince majority of servents are treated very well.
What is the difference bwteeen hiring someone to help me with my shop? or how about work in my farms? vs work in my house? Its employment pure and simple.
When I stay at a hotel and the maids clean my room and make the bed, I dont get upset. Do you? its their job?
I am not against domestic servents at all. In a country like Pakistan it provides livelihood for many people. What I am in favor of is that this employment be regulated with minimum wages, work conditions and number of hours etc factored in otherwise people will gain the opportunity to abuse needy people by underpaying and overworking them.
I have talked about kids who work as servents before, and how they can be victime of abuse. It is possible and it happens, however their life is much better than kids who have to work in factories, and mechanic shops. What is needed is that we have regulations to protect the kids.
There are many people who have put their servent's kids or the servents themselves thru school or vocational training. I know a Pakistani Judge whose servent a widow has been at their house for over 20 years. The guy out this lady's son through school, college and the kid finallly decided that instead of going to university he wanted to do some computer classes.
The people who do that are making a big difference in teh country by pulling one family up at a time to a better economic status.
:k: true
I hear you Nadia. If God has given us ability and good health, why not iron our own clothes etc instead of asking the elderly naukar to do it. When I go to Pak to visit, I see that in my nani's house and it makes me feel awkward sometimes to see naukars stoop down to even their employer's young relatives etc. Sad but real attitude in Paki homes in Pakistan.