[quote]
Originally posted by Aatif:
sad to hear that lady .. I guess u deserve it! time for loan I guess ..
[/quote]
I can't take out a loan, I have no credit history.... all I have is my university scholarship. I just turned 18... I have no credit history, only money. Without CH, I can't even rent an apartment. And they are well aware of this.
legally, it is my parents fund. I would take out loans, but since I have no credit history, I cannot.
We're getting into personal opinions here Chaltahai, we better leave this thread alone.
Feeding, clothing, and educating a child is one thing but a parents responsiblity ends at the age of 18 legally.
At 18, their responsiblity ends when she doesn't live by their value system. Many college kids take out loans to obtain their education which they are perfectly capable of repaying it once they obtain it? why should this case be any different, lots of people do it, I'm sure Serana will be fine by taking out a loan.
If you can't live with their rules, why ask for the perks that come with it?
[quote]
Originally posted by Muzna:
**You state in your post that you do not want to be estranged from your family. It appears to me that no matter what you do, since you have chosen a path other than Islam, you will be estranged.
The next decision you have to make is whether or not the money is important enough for you. If you feel that you have a right to the education fund, then yes, consult a lawyer and go after it.
Keep in mind that no matter what religion you chose, you will have to live with your conscience in the end.
Will you be happy knowing that you "used" your parent's beliefs (i.e. by insisting that it is Un-Islamic to withhold educational funding) to get what you wanted? Will you be happy knowing that people that did not support your beliefs were "forced" either legally or morally to provide you with money so that you could do what you wanted in life? If yes, then fine. It's your call.
If you ask me, I will support myself and live with pride.
**
[/quote]
I would love to support myself; however, because I just turned 18, I have no credit history, cannot take out loans. I've been working and saving money for the last two years, but its enough to make a meager dent in the cost of my college education. I can't even sign a cell phone contract, let alone an apartment lease without a credit history.
Sweetie pie-
You don't need a credit history to get a loan from the federal government. Go to your financial aid office and find out what u need to do to apply for loans and grants via educational funds available to university students.
If you are a legal citizen of the US then credit history does not affect gov't loan programs, specially at 18 yrs of age. Unless your parents gave you a Gold card when you were 10.
You should be able to get gov't loans. If you feel strongly enough, accept that your parents are weenies and do it on your own. In a few years, flip'em a bird as you are graduating. With your morals and religious tenets intact.
If you seriously want to stand on your own two feet, there are tons of us here at Gupshup who can give you some advice since we have gone thru College and know all about the costs, renting apartments, getting a cell, and other misc. I'm willing to tell u all the things I know to help u.
But if you want to find a religious loopholes or some ways to hold your parents to supporting u, I want no part.
[quote]
Originally posted by lost:
***However, because I am still legally dependant on my parents (I am no longer a minor, however) due to my status as a student.*
So I guess this means you're above 18. You stating that you're dependant on them b/c you're a student is ridiculous. I know A LOT of people who pay for their own college tuition through work/scholarships/loans etc. Of course, it might mean you probably can't go to your "dream college" and might have to pick a cheaper one but still, you CAN go through college and support yourself.
im not going to my dream college, far from it. I have been working, and I have scholarships, but according to the government when I file a FAFSA for Finaid I am dependant on my parents and require their Tax info, which they have withheld from me. I have no credit history, because my parents will not extend their line of credit for anything -- a student loan, credit car, hell, they won't even sign a measly contract for a cell phone. If you think I have not tried this route, you are mistaken. I have no collateral to offer, no credit history, and only 2,000 dollars in savings, which I have earned through working and scholarships. Its still not enough.
However, is it Islamically appropriate for my parents to cut me off financially, and take back anything that was given to me in childhood, and throw me onto the street?
They're not throwing you onto the street. Are you handicapped in any way? Do you have any physical/mental disabilities that prevents you from getting a job? For 18 years your parents supported you financially...have you ever sat down and just tried to guess how much money they have spent on you all those years? I went to the site for this college plan you mentioned offered by Florida. The fact remains that it is still their money.
I don't question that my parents spent money on me. All I ever hear about is that I'm nothing but a waste of money.
And as we well know, in the US if you have no credit history, you might as well be disabled.
I am in a very precarious situation here, because my parents are taking away the money that was designated for my college education, upon which I am depending.
I'm 20 now....a Junior in college in the US. For you to say that you depend 100% on your parents money for college again is ridiculous and sounds childish. There are thousands of scholarships out there for college students....not to mention grants/loans etc. I live with my parents and they have no problem supporting me. BUT I STILL applied for tons of scholarships and have had 1 renewable scholarship ever since I started college which covers about half my tuition.
You live with your parents, which cuts your expenses in half. The university to which I have scholarship is seven hours away from home, adding the expense of living. Now I'm getting full tuition plus 2,600 a year, but that 2,600 covers fees, books, and maybe two-three months rent.
A religiously educated friend of mine suggested that no, it is not Islamically sound for my parents to act in such a fashion, because regardless of my personal religious beliefs, they are still bound to the laws of Islam, which require that they care for me until marriage.
This has nothing to do with anything else b/c as someone already mentioned, US doesn't follow any religious laws. What you should care about is what US laws are there to help you.
I am trying to deal with a situation that is very very tense and difficult for all parties involved, but I would like it to end positively. I love my family very much and I do not want to be estranged from them;
From what you wrote here, if your parents are willing to take away their financial support for you when it comes to college, it looks like that you're already estranged from them.
however at the same time, I do not feel it is sound, Islamically or otherwise, for me to have to restrict me behaviors and beliefs in such a fashion that is oppressive to me.
Who asked you to restrict your behaviors and beliefs? This is how it looks like...you have left the faith followed by your parents...and as a result, your parents want you to get out there in the real world and take care of yourself. Leaving your religion(the one followed by your family) is a MAJOR decision in a person's life. If you're mature enough to take this huge step, then surely you're mature enough to take care of yourself.
I briefly looked through the official website for the college fund program. It's the parents who pay the money(they're the purchasers). The website even mentions how it can be transferred to another sibling etc. Here's what you need to do(if you haven't already), contact the people at the program and simply ask them whether or not there is anything you can do if your parents decide to withdraw the money. But from what I read on their site, it's the parents who pay the money and thus, have control over the fund since it IS their money. As already mentioned, it doesn't sound like your parents are too interested in following Islam when it comes to this. And in the US, Islamic law won't do you much good anyway.
You have 2 choices:
1) Go talk to a lawyer about this and find out whether or not you have any legal options here. IF you do, then take your parents to court. I guess you can also always sue them in civil court. But keep in mind, if you do take legal steps to FORCE your parents to pay, you will be doing severe damage to what little relationship you have left with them.
2) Or you can act like a mature adult, get a job, apply for every single scholarship you can find...get loans/grants etc., find a college with low tuition, and put yourself through college like thousands of other students do every day.
Good luck.**
[/quote]
Thanks for your input. ^_^
Senara-
If your parents will not support you financially, they cannot claim u as a dependent on their taxes which means that you don't need their tax forms to apply for Federal Aid (FAFSA)
[quote]
Originally posted by Muni:
LadySerana-
Lets leave Islaam out of this, since you have left it. Why should Islaam have anything to do with it, when it comes to you, those guidlines do not apply to you, why should they apply to your parents?
[/quote]
Because my parents are Muslim -- is it not hypocritical of them to preach tolerance and peace and not practice it? We cannot leave Islam out of this because Islam is the deciding factor. I love my parents very much, regardless of their religious beliefs. And didn't the Prophet of Islam love his uncle and foster father regardless of his religious beliefs?
Listen, I don't know u nor your parents. I have no idea how they act and if they disregard the tenets of Islaam of tolerance and peace but abide by others.
It just seems to me that you are trying to use Islaam to weild power over your parents to support you financially when legally their responsiblity.
The most important question here is: Do u want to manipulate Islaam to use it to your advantage (I'm not even sure if Islaam insists what you are asking of your parents) or do u seriously want to show your parents that you differ in your beliefs yet you are responsible and resourceful enought to take care of yourself?
Do you want to show to your parents that they cannot control you throught their money?
If you seriously want to take care of yourself, there are ways to do it, you are not the only 18 year old out there who has had a falling out with her parents. There have been tons before and will come after you, they have and they will continue to take charge of their lives. You are not as helpless as you may feel at the moment. Go to any university, u will find college students supporting themselves 100%.
If you want sincere advice on how to help yourself, guppies including myself will give you sound advice.
[quote]
Originally posted by ladysenara:
** I would love to support myself; however, because I just turned 18, I have no credit history, cannot take out loans. I've been working and saving money for the last two years, but its enough to make a meager dent in the cost of my college education. I can't even sign a cell phone contract, let alone an apartment lease without a credit history.**
[/quote]
Why is it necessary to go to school right now? Why can't you go when you can afford to go?
Get out, get a job and save like crazy. It may take some time, maybe a year or two depending on what kind of job you get and how you spend what you earn, but if you truly are determined to go to college, you will.
You don't need to sign a lease for an apartment....become someone's room-mate.
You don't need a cell-phone immediately....save up for one and then buy those cards that are pay as you go so that you don't have to have credit.
This whole business of what parents should and should not do under the tenets of Islam is an exercise in futility and wreaks of hypocrisy on both sides.
[This message has been edited by Muzna (edited May 22, 2002).]
[quote]
Originally posted by Muni:
**Sweetie pie-
You don't need a credit history to get a loan from the federal government. Go to your financial aid office and find out what u need to do to apply for loans and grants via educational funds available to university students. **
[/quote]
No, but to get loans from the federal government you need to file a FAFSA with your parents tax information if you are under the age of 22. If your parents tax information doesn't show financial need, that is, and EFC that is less than the estimated university expenses, then the government does not offer you their finaid loans. Trust me, I've TRIED. I've been trying. I'm still trying. But without a credit history, the most I can get is a credit card with a $250 limit to start establishing a credit history.... it could be more than a year before I'm eligible for private loans.
[quote]
Originally posted by ladysenara: Because my parents are Muslim -- is it not hypocritical of them to preach tolerance and peace and not practice it?
[/quote]
Ibrahim says: salaams to all
Dear ladysenara
Initially when I read your post I wanted to inform you that you should refer this issue to some Muslim Q&A web site, where a qualified person with some credentials would be able to respond to you .
I guess , it was not necessary since some have already advised you as such, and others have given you their opinions.
What I would like you to consider is this.
Assuming a person was exiled from one nation to another would that person be able to collect/demand his pensions and social benefits from the nation he/she was exiled from?
Meaning the person got exiled because he/she did not conform to the laws of that nation than how in the world can those laws be used by that person to demand for help.
In scriptural understanding , le me quote.
For Jews and Christians
Matthew 10: Jesus said:
For Muslims
58:22 ** Thou wilt not find any people who believe in Allah and the Last Day loving those who resist Allah and His Apostle even though they were their fathers or their sons or their brothers or their kindred. For such He has written Faith in their hearts and strengthened them with a spirit from Himself. ** And He will admit them to Gardens beneath which Rivers flow to dwell therein (for ever). Allah will be well pleased with them and they with Him. ** They are the Party of Allah. Truly it is the Party of Allah that will achieve Felicity **
Ibrahim says: Hence the whole idea for revelation is to separate the good from the evil, in which case the law as prescribed by God are to cut off those relations which had strayed or in error.
Thus, you have no claims whatsoever when it comes to proper application of the laws as prescribed by our Creator. The issue is not about tolerance but more about truth verses untruth. Mind you this is the same prescription as found in the Hindu scriptures too.
I hope you will forgive me , if my opinion or the info I presented was not to your liking .
Regards
Ibrahim
** criticism is just another persons opinion**
May I ask what about Islam has turned you away from it ?
[quote]
Originally posted by Muzna:
**You state in your post that you do not want to be estranged from your family. It appears to me that no matter what you do, since you have chosen a path other than Islam, you will be estranged.
The next decision you have to make is whether or not the money is important enough for you. If you feel that you have a right to the education fund, then yes, consult a lawyer and go after it.
Keep in mind that no matter what religion you chose, you will have to live with your conscience in the end.
Will you be happy knowing that you "used" your parent's beliefs (i.e. by insisting that it is Un-Islamic to withhold educational funding) to get what you wanted? Will you be happy knowing that people that did not support your beliefs were "forced" either legally or morally to provide you with money so that you could do what you wanted in life? If yes, then fine. It's your call.
If you ask me, I will support myself and live with pride.
**
[/quote]
I can not agree more what have said in the quote above.
From me:
You have left the faith and now you are looking the salvage in the faith you have left?
You left the faith and now you are looking shelter in the same faith?
You left the faith for Freedom and now you are looking asylum in the same faith?
Your asking what is right or wrong in the faith does not have any weight, which is a lame excuse for monies. Parents save monies for their kids to see them make parents happy. If you cannot make your parents happy then why keep your greedy eyes on their monies.
For legal rights, consult some lawyers?
As it is said above, if I had pride, and I wanted freedom, I would be on my own and would not seek asylum in the same faith in which I do not believe....
Take care
**Note from Admin: When you figure out what this thread is about, you may post again.
If you continue to derail subjects your posting privileges will be restricted.**
[This message has been edited by Admin (edited May 23, 2002).]
Note from Admin: The best way to deal with people that show no respect for the thread is to ignore them. Please conduct yourself accordingly.
[This message has been edited by Admin (edited May 23, 2002).]
[quote]
Originally posted by ladysenara:
** No, but to get loans from the federal government you need to file a FAFSA with your parents tax information if you are under the age of 22.**
[/quote]
Senara-
Save yourself some grief by not jumping to conclusions as to how helpless your situation is. Go talk to a financial aid couselor at your university. You can still file your FASFA now, Priority deadline for it is March 1st.
One of my roommates was disowned by her parents in our senior year and I lived thru the entire process she had to go thru to become financially independent. I know what I'm talking about, trust me. Your case is not so hopeless.
You only need your parents forms if you are your parents dependent. If your parents are disowning/ throwing you out then they cannot claim u on their tax forms which means that you support yourself and you claim yourself. Therefore your parents financial status is not taken in account since you are the one who is supporting yourself.
Beleive me, Jess's parents very well off, but once disowned she had her meager savings, no credit cards (had daddy's card until then)or anything. She moved in our guest bedroom so she wasn't on the lease, she got a cell phone (it aint that hard, trust me), got a job off campus and went to Pharmacy school and worked and socialized and had a pretty normal and happy life.
If a senior in Pharmacy with a demanding schedule could do it, I'm sure a freshman can handle it too. You sound like an intelligent young woman.
I know many people who converted to islam and got kickied out of families and home.
and they dealt with it pretty well. They relied on government and were highly supported by their new muslim families and friends.
Your situation is different , you have not converted to any faith, otherwise you would have support from church or whatever religion you would had adopted.
My sincere advice to you is to keep your emotions calm and live with your parents peacefully, till you are independent. you didnt had to tell them your religious beliefs.
its a sirprize that you are 18, living in usa and still absolutely dependent on parents. Get a boyfriend, a rich one and than you wont have to worry about money. Otherwise government have welfare programs , you can benifit from them. get financial aid if you can't get scholarships. Financial aid is for everybody who is in need of it. you don't need credit history etc for that. Others have informed you enough about it.
Good Luck
"Philosopher, Orator, Apostle, Legislator, Conqueror of Ideas, Restorer of Rational beliefs.... The founder of twenty terrestrial empires and of one spiritual empire that is Muhammad. As regards all standards by which human greatness may be measured, we may well ask, is there any man greater than he?"