[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by CM: *
You still use the actions of the minority to attack and demonize the majority. That is a not a muslim problem.
That is a problem with every non-muslim society.
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And every Muslim society. Are they any different. The reality is that perception is reality. If perception results in the burning of Mosques, then the reality is that there is/will be a backlash against Muslims.
Ah here we have target number one? I riddle you this batman:
Which society is this? Non-muslim society.
Who has the perception problem? (This is where you answer)
Here we are with a rare introspective thread and all you can do (as always) is ask others do the introspection. The subject of this thread is the implications of Muslim terrorists threatening, kidnapping, and murdering innocents. When the reaction of non-Muslims to those activities result in the torching of mosques, the ball is in your court.
How is the ball in my court when you use the minority to demonize the majority and kill and hurt innocent people?
Btw the above riddle to hard for you? You didnt answer it.
As always, you are giving yourself way too much credit for being clever. Pose your questions in another thread. This one was opened to highlight the consequences of the world's perception to the brutal killings that are being done by those who use Islam as justification. You are trying to make it everyone else's problem, but when your mosque burns down the answers to those questions really don't matter, do they?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by CM: *
How is the ball in my court when you use the minority to demonize the majority and kill and hurt innocent people?
Btw the above riddle to hard for you? You didnt answer it.
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how you can change the view of common man hearing ngeative
news not in one country in many regions of the world
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*Originally posted by Ohioguy: *
In Iraq there is the most representative governement in 40 years, and more representative than anywhere else in the Arab world. Is this not worth an effort before guns? How many "Camp David" type peace initiatives have been tried?
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I won't dispute what you said regarding Afghanistan, because the alternative to today's situation is to me equally unpleasant.
But the iraqi government is far from representative. It is entire appointed; not a single high-level official has been shown to be actually elected.
Lebanon, despite Syrian influence, has a far more representative government because its parliament has at least been elected into power. And that without overbearing Western influence.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Seminole: *
As always, you are giving yourself way too much credit for being clever. Pose your questions in another thread. This one was opened to highlight the consequences of the world's perception to the brutal killings that are being done by those who use Islam as justification. You are trying to make it everyone else's problem, but when your mosque burns down the answers to those questions really don't matter, do they?
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And i give you too much credit by having a conversation with you. I am actually discussing that. I am saying exactly what you just did. It is the perception of the world. Not of the Islamic communities. Rather the world is seeing the issue and using the minority to abuse and oppress the majority.
When our mosque burns down it answers my questions easily. Who hurt the innocents? Non muslims. Who did the burning? Non muslims. Who has the problem with differentiating between terrorists and normal innocent people? Non muslims.
Do i have to draw it in crayon for you?
Changing views? Well you cant change anybody's views. You can try to educate the racist elements out of them. But you can never change anybodies views.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by CM: *
And i give you too much credit by having a conversation with you. I am actually discussing that. I am saying exactly what you just did. It is the perception of the world. Not of the Islamic communities. Rather the world is seeing the issue and using the minority to abuse and oppress the majority.
When our mosque burns down it answers my questions easily. Who hurt the innocents? Non muslims. Who did the burning? Non muslims. Who has the problem with differentiating between terrorists and normal innocent people? Non muslims.
Do i have to draw it in crayon for you?
Changing views? Well you cant change anybody's views. You can try to educate the racist elements out of them. But you can never change anybodies views.
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cm some of them hide as civilialns and abuse their guest status so who know who will be potential threat?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by CM: *
Changing views? Well you cant change anybody's views. You can try to educate the racist elements out of them. But you can never change anybodies views.
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The point of this ONE thread is that instead of trying to educate the racist elements out of the non-Muslim society (God know there's plenty of that in Muslim societies as well), understand that there are and always will be those elements and by allowing the loudest, most visible voices of Muslims today to be the ones kidnapping and killing innocents, expect people to correlate them to Muslims in general. Of course I don't believe it's justified to retaliate against innocent Muslims, but you can't pretend it's not going to happen. What do you have more control or a say over - the activities of mobs burning mosques or the terrorists disguised as jihadis using Islam as a basis for their terror? When you have a majority of Pakistanis that look up to OBL as hero, don't be surprised when people hold you accountable for it.
could not agree with you more :k:
Some ignorant ppl here try to pound muslims because of the action of the very few. To top it off then they justify voilence aganist the majority of the muslims just because of the actions of this minority.
If this is the case, then everytime a black becomes a victim of a hate crime, someone should lynch a white guy. WHat a BS logic.
This is the attitude which is making Muslim look evil all over the world. We do all our best to justify action of those morons. Yes,It is action of minority of muslims.But if you go to streets of Pakistan,Indian musllim localities, Arab street you will see that though it is action of few minority most of us seems to agree with them. We dont condemned them they way we should and it gives the world impression that we condone it. Believe me the rate by which these Idiots are killing other people very soon muslims will not be safe anywhere in the world other than some Islamic countried. We are making too many enemies. There is extreme right wing group in every country where there is considerable population of India and they take advantage of these incidents to fill extent to make Muslim look like nuisance.We are just playing into their hands.
very good topic Pheonix. :k:
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by fair_&_balance: *
This is the attitude which is making Muslim look evil all over the world. We do all our best to justify action of those morons. Yes,It is action of minority of muslims.But if you go to streets of Pakistan,Indian musllim localities, Arab street you will see that though it is action of few minority most of us seems to agree with them.
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yeah go and ask them would Islam authorize the slaying of 12 innocent people? i dont know where u are from..but atleast where i am from this would be condemmed in the strongest of words
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We dont condemned them they way we should and it gives the world impression that we condone it.
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Go and read what Arab and Islamic scholars are saying abt these killings...
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Believe me the rate by which these Idiots are killing other people very soon muslims will not be safe anywhere in the world other than some Islamic countried. We are making too many enemies. There is extreme right wing group in every country where there is considerable population of India and they take advantage of these incidents to fill extent to make Muslim look like nuisance.We are just playing into their hands.
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ofocurse i agree with u...but thats what im trying to convey here...that some of the ppl here r trying to advocate..the minority's action do not justify any voilence aganist innocent muslims living in non-islamic countries..i mean then whats the diff between them and the terrorists in iraq..both are targetting innocents..
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by lussi: *
yeah go and ask them would Islam authorize the slaying of 12 innocent people? i dont know where u are from..but atleast where i am from this would be condemmed in the strongest of words
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Where do you live definitly not in any Muslim country? do you? I doubt.
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Go and read what Arab and Islamic scholars are saying abt these killings...
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Streets dont reflect it. People in stree rub their hand with glee when it happens. It is another thing if you dont wana accept it. You have to imagine a vast majority of them are not Internet-browsing-College-educated-living -in-pluralistic-society type. So view of people like me and you is minority.
it is not about one community what happened in gujarat makes indians
look bad it is about perception.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by fair_&_balance: *
Where do you live definitly not in any Muslim country? do you? I doubt.
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I'm from Lahore,Pakistan. Again, I don't what lunatic muslims you've been in touch with but no sane muslim would justoify killing of 12 innocents.
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Streets dont reflect it. People in stree rub their hand with glee when it happens. It is another thing if you dont wana accept it. You have to imagine a vast majority of them are not Internet-browsing-College-educated-living -in-pluralistic-society type. So view of people like me and you is minority.
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Look at what I said above. Contrary to what you want to believe, a big majority of muslims are not blood thristy hounds.
"yeah go and ask them would Islam authorize the slaying of 12 innocent people? i dont know where u are from..but atleast where i am from this would be condemmed in the strongest of words"
And then, after all of those "strongest of words" there would be a littany of excuses, conspiracy theories, and rationalizations that the "strongest of words" ends up more like a half-hearted obligitory regret. And, to the rest of the world it sounds like:
"But if you go to streets of Pakistan,Indian musllim localities, Arab street you will see that though it is action of few minority most of us seems to agree with them. We dont condemned them they way we should and it gives the world impression that we condone it. "
Let's face it, until some Jihadi gourp is hunted down by Muslims and punished and publically denounced " in the strongest words", then nothing will change, and indeed this cancer will grow. The worst is yet to come.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Ohioguy: *
"yeah go and ask them would Islam authorize the slaying of 12 innocent people? i dont know where u are from..but atleast where i am from this would be condemmed in the strongest of words"
And then, after all of those "strongest of words" there would be a littany of excuses, conspiracy theories, and rationalizations that the "strongest of words" ends up more like a half-hearted obligitory regret. And, to the rest of the world it sounds like:
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well OG, how many times have the likes of Jerry Fallwell been "condemmed in the strongest of words"? let alone the consipiracy theories ur so fond of.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by lussi: *
I'm from Lahore,Pakistan. Again, I don't what lunatic muslims you've been in touch with but no sane muslim would justoify killing of 12 innocents.
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not justifying is not equal to condeming. One can be indifferent too.
You need to go out and mix with average Joes on street. Not the internet-bowsing-college-educated types.
fb, believe what u want to. As I said, no sane muslim would justify killing of 12 innocents. And I have mixed with enough average Alis to know that.