Re: Seminar: Enlightened Moderation and Islam
I thought the issue was "moderate enlightenment" and not metaphors that are not up your alley...
Re: Seminar: Enlightened Moderation and Islam
yep, someone was dodging the issue itself and being felt so offended on just one example.
my sympathy for those .. Truth does hurt 
You see, that man Ismail who talked to Maulana (yep the title :)) declared himself a devout muslim who drinks liquor and eat pork and truely called Maulvies the misguided ones who restrict the lives of true believers, much of the likes of Ismail himself.
Re: Seminar: Enlightened Moderation and Islam
There are people who openly call themselves Muslims while eveything they do is unIslamic…
indeed, like calling others non muslims and not having an ounce of respect for haqooq al ibaad. the types that incite crowds to throw stones at cars of innoent passerbys and burn down businesses.
Muslims have a certain self-respect just like any nation whether they be Brits or Americans or Germans…When a Muslim sees another Muslim drinking a beer and having relations with his girlfriend and then claiming to be Muslims, it pisses Muslims off that they are doing something unIslamic and claiming to be Muslims…
And while it may piss you off, muslims should control their anger and approach that person in a proper manner, in their actions and in their words.
**Didn;t you declare you Fatwa upon all extremists as being non-Muslims because you considered what they did as wrong? **
Do I have the right or ability to declare a fatwa? I also declared a fatwa that anyne who issues another fatwa should be slapped with a big trout. The difference is that I dont have a self imposed title of Maulana or Khuda in front of my name and dont claim to be a scholar or have any followers.
Didn’t you curse and damn Osama Bin Laden and those like him to hell because he did what you thought was wrong? Many Muslims consider Osama as a true Muslim and you consider those Muslims as non-Muslims too…I remember you saying that in world affairs, despite knowing that only Allah :swt: knows who is guided and not…
well in that case your hero Osama declared muslims who dont follow his agenda as non mulsims and basically expendable. ..anyways lets move on forward since u will answer your own question..
waisay yadaasht kaffi achee hai aap ki, badaam kafi khatay hain aap.
dude you seem to be fixated on me. really I hardly remember most of our inane chater once I am done with a thread, but usually because its the same old same old
But the guy in the Maulana sahib’s example is openly defying Allah :swt:…There shouldn’t be no doubt, even in your mind that the person who openly defies Allah :swt:'s commands is a non-Muslim…
Allahs commands are not limited to drinking and all, his commands are also around killing of innocent ppl. and by that token my previous statement that you refer to considering osama as a non muslim stand.
A simple analogy would be, would a person plants wheat be called a doctor? Obviously not, for he knows nothing of medicine…Sure, he might know a couple of things, but that doesn’t make him a doctor…
err…okay.
If you can make a Muslim a non-Muslim (a woeful thing in the eyes of God and man) then I believe the Maulana sahib has every right to use a good analogy…And it shouldn’t rile you up because you declared a Fatwa of exclusion from Islam upon a Muslim which is unacceptable Islamically…You took it upon yourself to play God…And that too upon something which is debatable…
Mullah can use any anologies he wants to, as long as it is done in tameez aur tehzeeb a daira.
This thread is not about me chanda, so your typical tactics of dragging tangents is quite obvious. regardless…if I can not consider osama and ppl of his ilk non mulsim for defying a badic law of not killing innocent ppl… even in times of war declared by the state (and not some cave dwelling madman)
And it’s funny that you should mention Ahadith being fabricated…If they were fabricated, then how do you know how to pray? Or make Hajj? Or make Wudu?
It is funny that you dont know how many ahadeeth were taken out from books because they were fqabricated, and how scholars to this day urge caution when looking at ahadeeth because there are many weak ahadeeth in the books still.
In your view its all black or white..where did I say “all” ahadeeth are fabricated. i said there are fabricated hadeeth s u dont know if this one is right or false.
Anyway, lets return to the basic topic at hand that this mullah could have used a better anology to make his point rather than stoop to bay ghairati and bay sharmi.
and no he is not a maulana, he is a mullah.
Re: Seminar: Enlightened Moderation and Islam
true cheguvera, i digressed. It was a simple observation and we could have continued to discuss the topic at hand however people chose to defend the uncouth language of this mullah again and again, which makes no sense.
You do make a good point and maybe we should return to the topic at hand, and just let me observation be what it simply was, an observation 
Re: Seminar: Enlightened Moderation and Islam
That is not the topic of this thread. You can open up your own thread and post the link to his speech and discuss.. his speech lasted for not more than 20 minutes .. The whole seminar was three hours long. Thanks.
Re: Seminar: Enlightened Moderation and Islam
^ agreed, as a matter of fact, i suggested the same half an hour before your last post in my post to CheGuvera. Lets move on from the lame bay haya analogy by mullah jee and return to the initial topic which you had intended to discuss.
Thanks
Re: Seminar: Enlightened Moderation and Islam
^ and it was a seminar in which people had way different point of views...
you should see how Dr. Javed Iqbal and Dr. Israr Ahmed addressed each other even when disagreeing. There is the lesson to learn than boiling the blood on something which some "mullah" (as per you) said in the heat of emotion... and I say heat of emotion because you have to listen in what context he exactly said that and what was his expressions.. Let's move on :)
Re: Seminar: Enlightened Moderation and Islam
Fazool behes ka kia faida? Just make your point and move on. Everybody here knows what the likes and dislikes of every gupshup members are. Never forget, "Hidayat Allah kee taraf sei hee aatee hei, banda bas haath paon hee maar sakta hei!"
Re: Seminar: Enlightened Moderation and Islam
Anwaar lets move on, please realize that I dont use the term mullah as a dis for this person. I am not confortable using the term Maulana for anyone, so substitute that with Mullah, or shaikh or imam etc.
Re: Seminar: Enlightened Moderation and Islam
Yes, perfectly makes sense..
I myself prefer shaikh than Maulana...
thanks :-)
Re: Seminar: Enlightened Moderation and Islam
Is that the type of analogy you would use while having a civilized discussion in a mixed audience, or in front of your elders, or in any decent gathering? I would not.
(Quran, 7:176.) If it had been Our will, We should have elevated him with Our signs; but he inclined to the earth, and followed his own vain desires. His similitude is that of a dog: if you attack him, he lolls out his tongue, or if you leave him alone, he (still) lolls out his tongue. That is the similitude of those who reject Our signs; So relate the story; perchance they may reflect.
(Qur'an, 1:26) ALLAH is not ashamed to make an example of a mosquito or of an even smaller thing. As for those who believe, they know it is the truth from their Lord. But as for those who disbelieve, they say, "What does ALLAH mean by this example?" He misguides many by it and guides many by it. But He only misguides the deviators.
Re: Seminar: Enlightened Moderation and Islam
^ qibla, raat gayee baat gayee. saamp nikal gaya ab lakeer peetay say kya faidah.
reminds me of an old movie "too late the hero"
P.S. If you dont see the difference between the statements you posted and what the mullah said then i cant help you
P.S.2. Qureshi sahab, to quote al pacino. I try to get out but they keep pulling me back in :(
Re: Seminar: Enlightened Moderation and Islam
sour grapes.......
You said it is uncivilized to give an example of dog. I just pasted verses in which Allah gives expamples of dog & mosquito. Thats about it. I don't care what any Mullah is saying.
Re: Seminar: Enlightened Moderation and Islam
sorry my man, I had told a number of ppl in this thread that I am done with this particular subject in order to return to the initial topic at hand. You either did not notice it, or just wanted to have yer last word in anyways. Regardless, you want to discuss this open a new thread and I will take care of you over there 
P.S. I did not say it is uncivilized to give example of a dog. pehlay soccho, samjho, phir moon kholo.
Once again, lets discuss this in a seperate thread if you would like, several people have requested that we end this subject and not doing so is just impolite. Shukran.
Re: Seminar: Enlightened Moderation and Islam
So can we still use the word Mullah in this forum? I thought it wasn't allowed.
Btw, is there a MP3 version of this seminar?
Re: Seminar: Enlightened Moderation and Islam
Yes, he started with this ayah and it was in this context however, this subject is done with and we know no one had the bad intention in this thread while asking… please, enjoy the rest of the seminar 
There was a real player version of each speech on www.tanzeem.org few months back when I had downloaded and listened to it originally, however, they have redesigned the website and either I am unable to find in the Audio section or they have removed it… Wallaho Alam
Re: Seminar: Enlightened Moderation and Islam
^ Interesting site. Thanks.
Re: Seminar: Enlightened Moderation and Islam
On the contrary, I think somebody did have the intention of using conjecture to attack one of the Aalims, pejorative - Mullah, for an aspect of his speech which had nothing to do with the overall message being conveyed…quite frankly the only viable option remaining when devoid of concrete arguments…So I can empathize…
Re: Seminar: Enlightened Moderation and Islam
The person who vainly follows what his heart desires despite being told the truth, surely his constitution is that of a dog…You recite the Quran to both of them and it would have the same effect on them…They’ll still consider wrongful stuff as aceptable like homosexuality, interest, gambling, drinking e.t.c…
Brother Abdul Rauf used a simily straight out of the Quran…Some found it offensive presupposing that Abdul Rauf used an inappropriate simily…
If people wish to ignore the message behind the simily by acting indignant and then claiming the moral high ground on its being a crass and unsophisticated, then they should stop reading the Quran or any other religious books for that matter…For they would find crasness written all over them…
However, for those who can grasp the meaning behind the analogies and similitudes, then surely, the books of wisdom contain great knowledge…For with knowledge comes humility and with humility moral indignation and superficical outrage goes out the door…
Re: Seminar: Enlightened Moderation and Islam
OK, so moderation is haraam, right ?
now go back to caves, and stop using new technology and etc...