Selling alcohol

Society Religion & Philosophy
21

Mulla

Just to keep you amused, here is the confirmation of Alcohol being Haraam:

002.219 They ask thee concerning wine and gambling. Say: "In them is great sin, and some profit, for men; but the sin is greater than the profit."

005.093 O ye who believe! Intoxicants and gambling, (dedication of) stones, and (divination by) arrows, are an abomination,- of Satan’s handwork: eschew such (abomination), that ye may prosper.

005.094 Satan’s plan is (but) to excite enmity and hatred between you, with intoxicants and gambling, and hinder you from the remembrance of Allah, and from prayer: will ye not then abstain?

007.157 "Those who follow the apostle, the unlettered Prophet, whom they find mentioned in their own (scriptures),- in the law and the Gospel;- for he commands them what is just and forbids them what is evil; he allows them as lawful what is good (and pure) and prohibits them from what is bad (and impure).

The above are ayats from the Qur'aan, as I know you do not accept any form of A'Hadeeth.

I am surprised that you ask such a question considering you are and ardent follower of only the Qur'aan!!

22

Ibrahim says; Just to add to what Brother Sholay had already conveyed above.

The Prohibition of consuming intoxicants took three stages, since people had become used to drinking in those days and would have been a problem If they were told to give it up at once without revealing the requirements for Islamic behaviour.

First we are told it was a great sin!

Read!

2: 219 They ask thee concerning wine and gambling. ** Say: "In them is great sin and some profit for men; but the sin is greater than the profit."** They ask thee how much they are to spend; say: "What is beyond your needs." Thus doth Allah make clear to you His Signs: in order that ye may consider.

Than they were told not come to prayer after drinking as it was NOT forbidden outright at this stage.

Read!

4: 43 ** O ye who believe! approach not prayers with a mind befogged until ye can understand all that ye say ** nor in a state of ceremonial impurity (except when travelling on the road) until after washing your whole body if ye are ill or on a journey or one of you cometh from offices of nature or ye have been in contact with women and ye find no water then take for yourselves clean sand or earth and rub therewith your faces and hands. For Allah doth blot out sins and forgive again and again

Finally when all had comprehended Islamic requirements, the need to totally avoid it was conveyed by this verse.

Read!

5: 90 O ye who believe! intoxicants and gambling (dedication of) stones and (divination by) arrows are an abomination of Satan's handiwork: ** eschew such (abomination) that ye may prosper. **

23

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

24

[quote]
Originally posted by Ibrahim:
**Ibrahim says; Just to add to what Brother Sholay had already conveyed above.

The Prohibition of consuming intoxicants took three stages, since people had become used to drinking in those days and would have been a problem If they were told to give it up at once without revealing the requirements for Islamic behaviour.

First we are told it was a great sin!

Read!

2: 219 They ask thee concerning wine and gambling. ** Say: "In them is great sin and some profit for men; but the sin is greater than the profit."** They ask thee how much they are to spend; say: "What is beyond your needs." Thus doth Allah make clear to you His Signs: in order that ye may consider.

Than they were told not come to prayer after drinking as it was NOT forbidden outright at this stage.

Read!

4: 43 ** O ye who believe! approach not prayers with a mind befogged until ye can understand all that ye say ** nor in a state of ceremonial impurity (except when travelling on the road) until after washing your whole body if ye are ill or on a journey or one of you cometh from offices of nature or ye have been in contact with women and ye find no water then take for yourselves clean sand or earth and rub therewith your faces and hands. For Allah doth blot out sins and forgive again and again

Finally when all had comprehended Islamic requirements, the need to totally avoid it was conveyed by this verse.

Read!

5: 90 O ye who believe! intoxicants and gambling (dedication of) stones and (divination by) arrows are an abomination of Satan's handiwork: ** eschew such (abomination) that ye may prosper. ** **
[/quote]

This is all very nice. Just don't try to add any explanation from yourself or any other human sources because that's where the trouble begins. A simple and accurate translation of Quran is easy to read and follow.

25

Mulla

If you had BOTHERED to study the Qur'aan and the Synopsis of Contents concerning the ayats, you would realise that Ibrahim is correct in his analogy and not making it up in his own words as you have foolishly stated.

My suspicion is that you have neither read or studied the Qur'aan and are therefore asking questions which have been answered millions of times for Non Believers.

For the second time, I will now elaborate further on your original enquiry concerning alcohol.

In ayat 219-221, four enquiries of the Beievers are answered. They were concerning wine and gambling, donations for the cause of Allah, the right way of dealing with the orphans and the forbiddance of marrying a mushrick man or woman.

At this state a mere disapproval of the use of wine and playing of the games of chance is pronounced as a preliminary to their final prohibition.

The next instruction regarding wine was given in 4.43, when the Believers were prohibited from offering prayers when they were drunk.

Finally in 5:90-91, drinking, gambling and the like were all declared absolutely unlawful.

Surah 4 was revealed during the early Hijrah period. This was a critical period for the development of the newly formed Muslim Ummah which had just established its city state at Madinah, and was yet to develop into a strong viable state of the Arabian peninsula. Towards this objective, the Muslim Ummah needed its own moral, cultural, social, political and economic modes and norms distinct from those of Pagan and mushrik Arabs. Accordingly, we find in the Surah detailed instructions regarding the solidarity of the Ummah.

Surah 5. This Surah was was also revealed in Hijrah and at a time when ISLAM had become an invulnerable power in the Arabian peninsula. By now the Islamic state had extended to Najd in the east, to the Red Sea in the west, to Syria in the north and Mecca in the south. The Surah was revealed to enable believers to cope with new requirements of their favourable changed circumstances. Now Islam was not merely a creed which ruled over the minds and hearts of its followers, but it had developed into a state with it's own distinct ideology.

Now that you have a rough idea of the revelations, please feel free to do your own research and justify the banning of Alcohol if you actually do believe it is Unlawful that is!

26

[quote]
Originally posted by sholay:
**
Mulla

If you had BOTHERED to study the Qur'aan and the Synopsis of Contents concerning the ayats, you would realise that Ibrahim is correct in his analogy and not making it up in his own words as you have foolishly stated.

My suspicion is that you have neither read or studied the Qur'aan and are therefore asking questions which have been answered millions of times for Non Believers.

For the second time, I will now elaborate further on your original enquiry concerning alcohol.

In ayat 219-221, four enquiries of the Beievers are answered. They were concerning wine and gambling, donations for the cause of Allah, the right way of dealing with the orphans and the forbiddance of marrying a mushrick man or woman.

At this state a mere disapproval of the use of wine and playing of the games of chance is pronounced as a preliminary to their final prohibition.

The next instruction regarding wine was given in 4.43, when the Believers were prohibited from offering prayers when they were drunk.

Finally in 5:90-91, drinking, gambling and the like were all declared absolutely unlawful.

Surah 4 was revealed during the early Hijrah period. This was a critical period for the development of the newly formed Muslim Ummah which had just established its city state at Madinah, and was yet to develop into a strong viable state of the Arabian peninsula. Towards this objective, the Muslim Ummah needed its own moral, cultural, social, political and economic modes and norms distinct from those of Pagan and mushrik Arabs. Accordingly, we find in the Surah detailed instructions regarding the solidarity of the Ummah.

Surah 5. This Surah was was also revealed in Hijrah and at a time when ISLAM had become an invulnerable power in the Arabian peninsula. By now the Islamic state had extended to Najd in the east, to the Red Sea in the west, to Syria in the north and Mecca in the south. The Surah was revealed to enable believers to cope with new requirements of their favourable changed circumstances. Now Islam was not merely a creed which ruled over the minds and hearts of its followers, but it had developed into a state with it's own distinct ideology.

Now that you have a rough idea of the revelations, please feel free to do your own research and justify the banning of Alcohol if you actually do believe it is Unlawful that is!

**
[/quote]

Meaning of an ayat is fine but don't add your salt and pepper to it. That's my objection and I'm not here to discuss the contents of another website nor do I need to follow what you think or can't think. How many time do I have to tell you that as a human no one is authorized to add anything to Quran and that was true for the Prophet also.

27

Mulla

I think that there must be a language barrier or simple Arabic and English is misunderstood by you.

Noone is adding or subtracting anything from a Qur'aanic ayat. All that is happening is that you are being educated on the context of the ayats, which you are finding difficult to understand and accept.

The question you need to answer is at the time of the revelations what was happening within Arabia and why were the revelations revealed?

Finally, in your opinion, do you accept that alcohol is unlawful, if so why, how did it become unlawful and why?

Please be brave enough to at least answer WITHOUT giving an explanation on any of the Qur'aanic ayats as you yourself have stated that you will not accept this method of explanations!!!

Not accepting A'Hadeeth and now not accepting explanations regarding Qur'aanic ayats. I await with anticipation on the technique you are going to use to give an explanation, because you have just eliminated the two most authentic.

28

yup, if u want your restaurant to be more than a cheap eat, u have to sell alcohol for an "upscale" reputation. Or just to attract Western customers.

If it meant the survival of my store/restuarant, I'm not sure if I'd sell it. Just thinking about it makes me uncomfortable. I guess, if I had to sell, I would give away to charity the $ made from alcohol sales.

29

[quote]
Originally posted by sholay:
**
Mulla

I think that there must be a language barrier or simple Arabic and English is misunderstood by you.

Noone is adding or subtracting anything from a Qur'aanic ayat. All that is happening is that you are being educated on the context of the ayats, which you are finding difficult to understand and accept.

The question you need to answer is at the time of the revelations what was happening within Arabia and why were the revelations revealed?

Finally, in your opinion, do you accept that alcohol is unlawful, if so why, how did it become unlawful and why?

Please be brave enough to at least answer WITHOUT giving an explanation on any of the Qur'aanic ayats as you yourself have stated that you will not accept this method of explanations!!!

Not accepting A'Hadeeth and now not accepting explanations regarding Qur'aanic ayats. I await with anticipation on the technique you are going to use to give an explanation, because you have just eliminated the two most authentic.

**
[/quote]

'Context of the ayat'? by who? What's really bothering you is that its my belief in the word of God vs your belief in the word of Bokhari and to justify that you are even willing to twist the meaning of ayats. Unlawful? Who told you that? Don't get intoxicated because that's what really the bottom line is.

30

yes, it's particularly beautiful to find "desis" and arabs, most likely muslim, in inner city neighborhoods here selling alcohol, porno, cigs and god knows what else to under aged youth............

but how is this any different than home???!

besides, lets get real, these people arent here because they're "muslim" and to spread islam ..... people are here to make money ..

like anybody gives 2 shyts if it's "halal"

btw, is it "halal" to be living on the stolen land of natives occupied by americans and then bytching about palestine/israel?

i dunno........................

31

[quote]
Originally posted by i-n-i:
**yes, it's particularly beautiful to find "desis" and arabs, most likely muslim, in inner city neighborhoods here selling alcohol, porno, cigs and god knows what else to under aged youth............

but how is this any different than home???!

besides, lets get real, these people arent here because they're "muslim" and to spread islam ..... people are here to make money ..

like anybody gives 2 shyts if it's "halal"

btw, is it "halal" to be living on the stolen land of natives occupied by americans and then bytching about palestine/israel?

i dunno........................**
[/quote]

why don't you enlighten by 'your views'? don't just ask question, must have some opinion so just tell abt ur opinion.

my take is: System/governance is not oppressing them, they are not demanding anymore, some parts were 'bought'. in first place, who assigned the land to 'native americans'? it is because they 'first arrived' here?

This land was grabbed in those days when there were no defining laws as to whom belongs a land, 'might is right' ruled. in this century 'humankind' defined these laws (even though they follow this law only when it favors them).

We oughta be Changez like, don't we?

32

Mulla

Please answer my question concerning alcohol and it's permissibility.

I await.

33

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Mullah_DoPiazza:
Unlawful?

Ibrahim says; Earlier when Brother Sholay proved beyond doubt that you were in error…you had nothing to say, NOW you go back to your folly…are you having delusions?

Mullah_DoPiazza:Who told you that?

Ibrahim says: So all that you have read so far on this thread was an illusion? Maybe you are hindu believing in Maya , right?

34

[quote]
Originally posted by Ibrahim:
**

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Mullah_DoPiazza:
Unlawful?

Ibrahim says; Earlier when Brother Sholay proved beyond doubt that you were in error…you had nothing to say, NOW you go back to your folly…are you having delusions?

Mullah_DoPiazza:Who told you that?

Ibrahim says: So all that you have read so far on this thread was an illusion? Maybe you are hindu believing in Maya , right?
**
[/quote]

Ibrahim and sholay:

So far I haven't seen any evidence to say 'alcohol is haram period' that's what I'm looking for. Don't tell me what God meant and what the conditions were. Don't add any explanations.

35

"why don't you enlighten by 'your views'? don't just ask question, must have some opinion so just tell abt ur opinion."

my views:

yes, the European AshkeNAZI Zionists have no ancestoral birthright to the lands they now occupy, but all is fair in love and war, right?

and what goes around, comes around, when you have a people like the arabs, who invaded lands from north africa to india ....... why shouldnt it happen to them?

when these arabs in places like juba, sudan, to this day are trying to impose their culture, their language, their values, etc. on non-arabic people and taking away their land........

when these arabs run off to foreign lands (ie: united states, canada, caribbean, south america, australia) which today are occupied by the ancestors of european invaders THEN bytch and moan about what's going on in palestine, i find it awfully ironic.

could care less if it's "halal" or not.

as for these comments:

"This land was grabbed in those days when there were no defining laws as to whom belongs a land, 'might is right' ruled."

it still does. might is right. that's why the zionists occupy palestine, and the americans have their armed forces, media EVERYWHERE in your "holy lands".

"in this century 'humankind' defined these laws (even though they follow this law only when it favors them)."

sure, sure buddy.

simply stated, the arabs get no sympathy or support from me. they are getting what they deserve.

36

i-n-i: it seems you have some kind of grunch against the arabic people .. wake up girl good and bad people are all around and each and every corner of this WORLD !!

guess what these arabic people have no sympathy for you .. you say that the arabic run of to foreigner countries ...
WHAT ABOUT YOU ..you are living in canada why did you run off over there...

GOD .. look at yourself before condeming other people or nationalties..you dont know what you are speaking about .

37

SADI,

first off im not a girl.

secondly, i did not "run" anywhere AND THEN bytch and moan about western imperialism and/or support the cause of arabs in palestine or wherever, WHILE enjoying the benefits of this land and not doing anything here to help support people in need, except selling them booze and alcohol, and opening up strip clubs.

thirdly, i dont hold a grudge against arabs, anymore than i do against europeans or americans. however, i will not support their causes, and i will not jump to defend them. why should i?

they made their own bed, and now they must lay in it.

[This message has been edited by i-n-i (edited August 28, 2001).]

38

I sell alcohol to underage kids at the store I work at. I don't drink the stuff, and it's good money. Even though it's illegal like me and the Hispanics who work there, but hey, Im just a poor nigger trying to make it in a white man's world.

39

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/rolleyes.gif

no wonder you r a poor nigga after reading your posting before i know why. And you know which one i mean.

“kaisay na karta usko main pyar, uski haseen main sukh thay hazaar, bichar gayay hum dukh ki hay baat”

40

Mulla

You are now saying that Satans handiwork is Halaal!! Even though the Qur'aan says differently:

005.093 O ye who believe! Intoxicants and gambling, (dedication of) stones, and (divination by) arrows, are an abomination,- of Satan’s handwork: eschew such (abomination), that ye may prosper.

Damn! We Muslims have been misled for over 1400 years by assuming Alcohol was unlawful and to protect ourselves from Iblis.

A couple more posts by you and all of Satans handiwork will be permissable by you!

Have you considered changing your name from Mulla to MUFTI!!