Re: Secularism Is Pakistan’s Way Out to End Sectarian Violence
The killer producing factories need to be stopped. Our ppl r fighting proxy war of Iran n saudi. Once it is stopped by controlling these mudrsah .. things will be better.
Re: Secularism Is Pakistan’s Way Out to End Sectarian Violence
but thats a big condition. I mean how are you going to achieve it? Wut will happen once those ppl who are fighting proxy wars come back? it’lll be far worse
Re: Secularism Is Pakistan’s Way Out to End Sectarian Violence
Pakistan needs to wash its hands of Kashmir, then there will be no more need to support the talibs or the Army to have its raison d’etre of India India India! Pakistan needs to stop begging other countries/institutions for money/loans and start building its own unique economy. Just saying!
Re: Secularism Is Pakistan’s Way Out to End Sectarian Violence
I agree with most of the part. Kashmir should however still be a political venture. Remember political not military.
Re: Secularism Is Pakistan’s Way Out to End Sectarian Violence
lol, you do know that the majority of Kashmiris (at last in my experience) class themselves as Azad Kashmiris rather then Pakis? So why the F are the Phathans/Punjabis/Seraikis/Sindhis etc busting a gut for them and going through hardships? Makes no sense to me. Kashmir is just a tool for the military to maintain influence within Pakistan, without the Kashmir issue, what is the militarys MO? Don’t get me wrong, the Sharifs, Bhuttos and MQM are just as bad.
Re: Secularism Is Pakistan’s Way Out to End Sectarian Violence
much truth and very plain and simple truth. but look at the jumbled gobbledegook you get in reply from those punch drunk on religiosity all their lives. secularism as a word puts them on the defensive automatically.
It’s no longer the sharia law or Taliban or ISIS. It’s the general mindset of people that needs to be changed. No amount of secularism can change the brainwashed religious intolerance that shows up every second month in a city of interior Punjab where a mob decides to kill an Ahmedi or a Christian family.
I remember back in late 70’s when mullahs passed fatwas against Nazia/Zoheb for singing romantic songs in spite of being siblings. Imran Khan had a fatwa against him for rubbing his cricket ball on his groin area in cricket matches, because it was a lewd act. Even Usman and Samina Peerzada had a fatwa as Usman divorced Samina in a play, and mullahs said that it is applicable on them and now they are living a haraam life as they are no longer married.
No one took the fatwas seriously. People laughed. Life moved on. Imran or Zoheb or Usman did not have to flee the country to save their lives. It was because people had a cooler mindset. Sahriah laws were there, Pakistan was a Islamic republic, mullahs were still stupid, education level was still low. Everything was same. It’s the holier than thou mindset that was not there.
Re: Secularism Is Pakistan’s Way Out to End Sectarian Violence
Are you all retarded ?
Our CM is responsible of killing 18 people with bullets, and tons with criminal negligence.
Why are they not behind the bars ??
Would kicking mullahs in the head fix that ? How many Christians are killed since govt started moving on punishment and courts etc..???
As nasty as some religious people could be, they did not break the system.
Just because you all craving a discussion and reading don’t mean you have to ignore all the facts and dance around every article.
Its like criticizing red-indian youth for committing suicides.
Pakistan is been a play ground for dirty games there are dozens of books out there, go f-in read one.
Re: Secularism Is Pakistan’s Way Out to End Sectarian Violence
There are many right answers and isms and key to success to any ideology is the implementation of rule of law and equal justice. I think this pretty much sums up the root cause of the failure of our current system.
Re: Secularism Is Pakistan’s Way Out to End Sectarian Violence
Thats exactly the purpose my friend. To keep it as “Azad” Kashmir not Indian state of kashmir. And thats why i mentioned “political”. There are UN resolutions in place and all what Pakistan needs to do is to push it and use diplomatically. Remember that was the only hurdle in it becoming a permanent member of UN security council.
This :k: Enuff said
Geez you are that old??!! :halo:
And one day (hopefully very soon), you will be too 
Re: Secularism Is Pakistan’s Way Out to End Sectarian Violence
You forgot MQM, mukti bahini and ANP as well. They are baaaad. Absolves everyone else.
Lagay raho bail out fundo idiots and then wonder, why did Pakistan go to hell?
PS Looking at this thread, perhaps a nuclear war aka “clean slate” might only fix Pakistan…
Re: Secularism Is Pakistan’s Way Out to End Sectarian Violence
The problem with a secular state is that it betrays its own commitment to neutrality by failing to limit its scope.
As long as a state limits its scope to protection of natural rights (life, liberty and property) it can legitimately claim to be neutral because natural rights are shared by all irrespective of religion or non-religion.
However, once a secular state chooses to extend its domain to regulation of consensual acts it betrays its claim of neutrality.There is no value-neutral way of regulating consensual acts. This includes everything from family matters to education to economic activity.
Since the secular state has consciously decided to exclude religion from its affairs it ends up filling the vacuum with a secular ideology that is used for regulation of consensual acts.
As the scope of the state expands this secular ideology becomes the dominant cultural ideology and the role of religion in culture is marginalized.
A look at the history of all western secular states will show this trend. Relatively newer secular states like India & Turkey are headed that way.The fears of religious folks are not unfounded when they claim that a secular state will secularize culture.
It will indeed do so as long as it plays an overbearing role in the life of people.
That is why they propose the alternative of a liberal religious state.
Such a state would be neutral in protecting natural rights of all but when regulating consensual affairs it would appeal to a dominant religious ideology.
Of course, such a state would be privileging the majority religious ideology in the sphere of consensual acts.
But, then, a secular liberal state similarly privileges a secular ideology in the sphere of consensual acts.The only true solution to this dilemma is to limit the scope of the state to protection of natural rights. All regulation of consensual behavior should be left to private individuals and communities.
No family laws, no public education, no economic management. Nothing except protection of life, liberty and property.Such a state would be completely neutral. All citizens will be completely equal and will enjoy maximum freedom of religion and non-religion.This is the ideal we should aspire to even though it may appear out of reach in current circumstances.
Re: Secularism Is Pakistan’s Way Out to End Sectarian Violence
No personal attacks whatsoever.
A sensitive thread but everyone pls keep your emotions in control so that we can have a meaningful discussion. many thx
Re: Secularism Is Pakistan’s Way Out to End Sectarian Violence
ahhh…i remmeber i used to be champion of all these “secularism in pakistan is the way out” type threads promoting secularism as a true face of islam and as a savior of our society …used to do so many debates but looks like i have run out of steam. i guess i am getting old..pathetically pessimistic as well. Nothing has changed. One massacre after another massacre and same robotic statements from army and govt. no one can touch religious mafia anymore…it has grown way too much and has influenced majority of masses in last 40 years.
Re: Secularism Is Pakistan’s Way Out to End Sectarian Violence
if secularism (where state finally becomes neutral of any religion and refrain from becoming champion of islam patronizing religious organizations and develop secular syllabus for next generation) will not change the people flawed religious mindselt, then what will change it? please enlighten us.
Re: Secularism Is Pakistan’s Way Out to End Sectarian Violence
great attempt to change the topic…that is what anti-secular folks do. fix this, fix that, then fix this and then fix that and then we will look into religious bigotry
Re: Secularism Is Pakistan’s Way Out to End Sectarian Violence
indirectly but you just supported secularism captain jee…
true secularism is close to islam… islam never bothered with anyone’s personal business. umar refused to pray in a church fearing people will convert all churches into mosques.
the only issue is that islam wants to implement sharia laws in a society and want minorities to pay extra jazya for their protection. secular society will have same law for everyone and same oppts and same protection for everyone with no extra cost
Re: Secularism Is Pakistan’s Way Out to End Sectarian Violence
I want to put religious emotion ,influences under control as much as you do.
But that does not change the fact. Our problems did not came from sectarianism.
Such articles such discussion flow and grow in half brain dead environment.
I seriously think we are extremely naive if not completely mentally challenged.
Re: Secularism Is Pakistan’s Way Out to End Sectarian Violence
India is a secular state, so are France, UK and USA. Then why Gujrat riots happened in India? Why 9/11, Boston Bombing, 7/7 and Charlie Hebdo happened? Was it because of the form of govt, or because of the poor mindset of people? Why is that secular govt of those countries failed to change the mindset of its residents? Please enlighten us.