one’s faith or lack of faith shouldn’t offend anyone else’s as long as you don’t impose your ways on him or her. i don’t see why you would be offended if someone who isn’t from your faith expresses disbelief in your ways. surely you believe christians are mislead, hindus believe in gods that are fake etc. should they be chronically offended or just accept this? your faith is no more important than anyone else’s to be offended or to offend others with.
secularism is against religion being the primary influence in public life. it tolerates those that are heartless slaves to logic as much as it tolerates mindless slaves to scripture. neither gets superior treatment if they break a traffic law or steal from their neighbour.
one's faith or lack of faith shouldn't offend anyone else's as long as you don't impose your ways on him or her. i don't see why you would be offended if someone who isn't from your faith expresses disbelief in your ways. surely you believe christians are mislead, hindus believe in gods that are fake etc. should they be chronically offended or just accept this? your faith is no more important than anyone else's to be offended or to offend others with.
I know that faiths of others is irrelevant for others.
What I'm saying is why it is necessary that someone is told about the flawed logic in his faith to prove superiority of the ideology I follow. Why secular are unable to appreciate / highlighting positive values of religions? Isn't highlighting only negative aspect of an ideology / religion a sign in itself that other party is either afraid of that ideology / religion or don't want to accommodate such ideology / religion?
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secularism is against religion being the primary influence in public life. it tolerates those that are heartless slaves to logic as much as it tolerates mindless slaves to scripture. neither gets superior treatment if they break a traffic law or steal from their neighbour.
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good use of words, but following scriptures is not a mindless experience. Trust me, its rather a mind blowing experience, when one someone applies logic with heart :)
What I'm saying is why it is necessary that someone is told about the flawed logic in his faith to prove superiority of the ideology I follow. Why secular are unable to appreciate / highlighting positive values of religions? Isn't highlighting only negative aspect of an ideology / religion a sign in itself that other party is either afraid of that ideology / religion or don't want to accommodate such ideology / religion?
there is nothing uniquely religious about the positive values in religions. they are shared by religious as well as non-religious people.
if you feel there are religious values that are great for society but are consistently ignored by secularists, please do mention a few. i can't think of any myself.
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good use of words, but following scriptures is not a mindless experience. Trust me, its rather a mind blowing experience, when one someone applies logic with heart :)
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well that is your point of view and i disagree. but my disagreement doesnt mean you should feel i am putting down your faith.
there is nothing uniquely religious about the positive values in religions. they are shared by religious as well as non-religious people.
if you feel there are religious values that are great for society but are consistently ignored by secularists, please do mention a few. i can't think of any myself.
well that is your point of view and i disagree. but my disagreement doesnt mean you should feel i am putting down your faith.
See the intolerance with you. Comparing yourself with a religious person, a Muslim for example would not say that there is nothing positive in Hinduism.
there is nothing uniquely religious about the positive values in religions. they are shared by religious as well as non-religious people.
if you feel there are religious values that are great for society but are consistently ignored by secularists, please do mention a few. i can't think of any myself.
Then whats the point of contention and resentment about religion if it shares same positive values with non-religious ideologies?
ok, if you go through some other forums and blogs of atheists , you would see them making points like life is pointless, why the hell one should bother to live, core belief is son of -----, and so on…
indeed, they feel insecure, they cannot find peace even with all the logic of science …
Then whats the point of contention and resentment about religion if it shares same positive values with non-religious ideologies?
the other things that come along with religions. things like whether you can or cannot eat beef even if you dont believe in the faith that prohibits it, whether you can or cannot grow a beard, or should or shouldnt cover your head, etc. basically things that need to be made voluntary rather than compulsory.
ok, if you go through some other forums and blogs of atheists , you would see them making points like life is pointless, why the hell one should bother to live, core belief is son of -----, and so on....
indeed, they feel insecure, they cannot find peace even with all the logic of science ....
just because someone is an atheist doesnt mean he/she is suddenly enlightened or immune from being an a-hole on internet forums. if you can accept the existance of muslim a-holes, hindu a-holes, jewish a-holes, whats the big deal with a few atheist ones too?
just because someone is an atheist doesnt mean he/she is suddenly enlightened or immune from being an a-hole on internet forums. if you can accept the existance of muslim a-holes, hindu a-holes, jewish a-holes, whats the big deal with a few atheist ones too?
Not few, dont be naive, that is general problem with logician atheists....
one atheist open a thread and all the other tends to approve that...
oh so if atheists being people with no meaning or respect for life is so common, why aren;t the ones out just exploding randomly amidst crowds killing life with zero respect not atheists? please do explain this.
oh so if atheists being people with no meaning or respect for life is so common, why aren;t the ones out just exploding randomly amidst crowds killing life with zero respect not atheists? please do explain this.
they feel insecure and meaningless themselves and trying to make others feel the same. more dangerous for the world....
the other things that come along with religions. things like whether you can or cannot eat beef even if you dont believe in the faith that prohibits it, whether you can or cannot grow a beard, or should or shouldnt cover your head, etc. basically things that need to be made voluntary rather than compulsory.
so all the problem secular got with religion are eating meat, growing beard, covering head?
lols. exactly thats what I want to know what exactly is the bone of contention. Its a follower choice what he eat, wear, grow as per the commandment of the God he/she believes in. That should not be made a big issue.
This argument with queer is going nowhere ... You know why? Because it is baseless ...
recollect your thoughts ... And think about what it is you are really trying to say ... queer challenged us earlier ... Is there anything uniquely religious about the good values in religion that atheism does not offer?
I would say that there is ... The basis of being dutiful to our parents comes from religion, atheism does not hold such a value nor can it be demonstrated that being dutiful to our parents is a normal conclusion a human will arrive at.
Also, the value of pleasing God ... This means we seek to be good in private when no one is looking at us just the same as we would be in public. This idea of being cautious of ones actions due to an All-Seeing God is alien to atheism.
There are more values if we only think carefully ...
This argument with queer is going nowhere ... You know why? Because it is baseless ...
recollect your thoughts ... And think about what it is you are really trying to say ... queer challenged us earlier ... Is there anything uniquely religious about the good values in religion that atheism does not offer?
I would say that there is ... The basis of being dutiful to our parents comes from religion, atheism does not hold such a value nor can it be demonstrated that being dutiful to our parents is a normal conclusion a human will arrive at.
Also, the value of pleasing God ... This means we seek to be good in private when no one is looking at us just the same as we would be in public. This idea of being cautious of ones actions due to an All-Seeing God is alien to atheism.
There are more values if we only think carefully ...
Where do I start. Atheism takes out any motivation for doing good that does not result in some immediate reward. In fact, there is no obligation or motivation to do any good at all since there is no ultimate reward. In fact, the whole notion of "good" comes into question as who decides what is "good"? The same goes for justice. There is no ultimate justice as an atheist since there is no God to carry such justice out. Therefore, if you are able to do something and get away with you, there is nothing holding you back from doing it. For example, feeding the needy? How would it be any different if you fed the needy or stole their food if you were an atheist? If you are sure you are not going to get caught, go ahead and do it and that'll be the end of that. An atheist believes everything to be spontaneous, just like the big bang that just happened randomly the universe continues in a random way. I don't know, everywhere I look I see design and purpose not randomness. In short, the whole concept of "good" "bad" "evil" is alien in terms of atheism since we are all just a collection of random atoms who just happened to come together in such a way as to form our species-this is our existence, nothing more nothing less. There is no room for good or bad or justice in this view.
Where do I start. Atheism takes out any motivation for doing good that does not result in some immediate reward. In fact, there is no obligation or motivation to do any good at all since there is no ultimate reward. In fact, the whole notion of "good" comes into question as who decides what is "good"? The same goes for justice. There is no ultimate justice as an atheist since there is no God to carry such justice out. Therefore, if you are able to do something and get away with you, there is nothing holding you back from doing it. For example, feeding the needy? How would it be any different if you fed the needy or stole their food if you were an atheist? If you are sure you are not going to get caught, go ahead and do it and that'll be the end of that. An atheist believes everything to be spontaneous, just like the big bang that just happened randomly the universe continues in a random way. I don't know, everywhere I look I see design and purpose not randomness. In short, the whole concept of "good" "bad" "evil" is alien in terms of atheism since we are all just a collection of random atoms who just happened to come together in such a way as to form our species-this is our existence, nothing more nothing less. There is no room for good or bad or justice in this view.
Okay but some atheists say that since we have become sentient and we have the ability to feel sympathy and we can relate to others then we can through our natural emotional/maternal instincts arrive at values which are considered by religions to be good.
For example the ethic of do as unto others if you want as done unto you ... this has replaced the term "good" for "do" ... So is it not a rational conclusion to state that people are like us we want to be happy so it follows they want to be happy so if we do things to make them happy they will do for us too. Or if they make us happy then we ought to do the same for them too.
why so insecure?