Re: Secularism and Atheism
Med brother while I understand your concern and where you are coming from, I can tell you from experience that this is not going anywhere once armchair philosophy comes into play. I have done this so many times, and once you start addressing and responding to Plato type arguments, it is a non-stop tit for taat and Allah says in the Quran
Baqarah 2:18] Deaf, dumb and blind; and they are not to return.[Baqarah 2:171] And the example of the disbelievers is similar to one who calls upon one that hears nothing except screaming and yelling; deaf, dumb, blind - so they do not have sense.
As for those whose fate is disbelief, whether you warn them or do not warn them - it is all one for them; they will not believe. Allah has sealed their hearts and their ears, and on their eyes is a covering; and for them is a terrible punishment.
Besides Ibn Tamiyah has already refuted Aristotole’s logic to the point of no return. Let me just quote wiki for this sorry I am being lazy.
"Fakhr al Din al Razi Amoli (b. 1149) criticised Aristotle’s “first figure” and developed a form of inductive logic, foreshadowing the system of inductive logic developed by John Stuart Mill (1806–1873). Systematic refutations of Greek logic were written by the Illuminationist school, founded by Shahab al-Din Suhrawardi (1155–1191), who developed the idea of “decisive necessity”, an important innovation in the history of logical philosophical speculation.[SUP][12]](Islamic philosophy - Wikipedia)[/SUP] Another systematic refutation of Greek logic was written by Ibn Taymiyyah (1263–1328), the Ar-Radd 'ala al-Mantiqiyyin (Refutation of Greek Logicians), where he argued against the usefulness, though not the validity, of the syllogism[SUP][20]](Islamic philosophy - Wikipedia)[/SUP] and in favour of inductive reasoning.[SUP][12]](Islamic philosophy - Wikipedia)"
[/SUP] the 11th century al-Ghazali, who is famous for his *Incoherence of the Philosophers critique of philosophers, was himself an expert in philosophy and logic. His criticism was that they arrived at theologically erroneous conclusions. In his view the three most serious of these were believing in the co-eternity of the universe with God, denying the bodily resurrection, and asserting that God only has knowledge of abstract universals, not of particular things, though it should be noted that not all philosophers subscribed to these same views
***IBn tamiyah pretty much destroys Greek Philosophy. Oh and almost forgot to mention Illama Iqbal. There are volumes of refutations .**However, if the arguments of IbnN Tamiyah and Ibn Qayyim and Ilaama Iqbal’s philosophy does not convince these guys, you think what I have to say will? It won’t and it’s due to the above quoted verses from Quran. I have done so before and found it to be fruitless and concluded that discussing philosophy, especially useless Greek Philosophy is a complete waste of time, and it is by its very nature endless and non-conclusive. If i ask you to draw a circle and take your finger and keep tracing the path of the circle with your finger as long as you possibly can..you will burn calories…put in effort..you may even feel like you did something, but you in fact did nothing, and the circle is still the circle and your finger is still the finger..and you are exhausted. As for absolutes, it’s very very simple…something is “moral” because God made it so…nothing is anything by “nature” as nature is not an independent entity. Allah has saved us from all this talk by making it clear that “nature” itself is a creation of Allah and therefore nothing is ever anything by “nature” as there is no cause and effect independent of Allah. There are two things in this Universe..the creator…and the created…you know who the creator is..so it’s not hard to know that everything else is the creation..things are not moral by nature..as nature itself is a creation.. fianlly I will like to remind you brothers of this hadith
t is narrated on the authority of Abu Huraira that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: Men will continue to question one another till this is propounded: Allah created all things but who created Allah? He who found himself confronted with such a situation should say: I affirm my faith in Allah.