Components of a Hadeeth:
[thumb=H]hadith-components24709_2371129.JPG[/thumb]
Classifications of Hadeeth:
[thumb=H]hadith-classifications24709_2371129.JPG[/thumb]
The four Identities of the Hadeeth:
[thumb=H]hadith-class124709_2371129.JPG[/thumb]
Hope that will help.. there is more to it but I guess first let us understand this much. So, laters :insha:
for sharing this! May Allah reward you amply .
Re: Science of Hadeeth
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*Originally posted by shoq-e-aawargi: *
...there is more to it but I guess first **let us understand **this much. ...
[/QUOTE]
1400 years have gone by and they still haven't understood. I am sure these Mullahs, will continue arguing with AyaTullhas for the next 1400 years.
In the meanwhile peace loving people will hunt the MAToo terrorists and punish them for killing Shias, looting Ahmadis, and bombing Christians.
In order to base my religious beliefs on it.. i'd rather a saying be either:
True
OR
False
can't seem to find any use for half truths and non truths disguised with fancy arabic...
oh and i' appreciate if the word "science" is not abused like that in this context.
Re: Science of Hadeeth
Interesting. Can some one put some descriptions of the methods used by scribes to select ahadeeth and verifying them for authenticity. Both from Sahih compilations, and also from shia texts.
the most basic thing is to see the chain of narrators....
and to see the text/words of the hadith....
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by armughal: *
the most basic thing is to see the chain of narrators....
and to see the text/words of the hadith....
[/QUOTE]
They miss out an important aspect: the physical distance between the final editor / compiler from Macca or Madina. It may not be a big deal in the time of internet, GS forum, and IM. However back then, having someone ride the camel out of Madina all the way to Baghdad or Bukhara was indeed a big deal.
If I am not mistaken, most of the editors were not from Arabian Peninsula and they also did their work far far from the origination point of Islam. The criteria of physical distance seems to be missing from the maps (Nothing against Ahadees).
^
most of them travelled to mecca and madina to collect the ahadith....
did u miss that part????
yes almost all of them were of Persian descent.. was Arabic even their first language...
anyway the practice of judging statements based on the assumptions that the person who makes those statements is "truthful" is highly subjective and has nothing to do with Science.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by PakistaniAbroad: *
anyway the practice of judging statements based on the assumptions that the person who makes those statements is "truthful" is highly subjective and has nothing to do with Science.
[/QUOTE]
PA: here is the ESL definition of the word Science taken from dictionary.com
** - Methodological activity, discipline, or study*: *I've got packing a suitcase down to a science. *
*
-An activity that appears to require study and method: the science of purchasing.**
It is impossible to collect correctly or name certain ahadeez correct, after more than thousand years in between. While all of us very clearly without any doubt know that jews and christian had ruled us too. We also know they are not our friends or atleast the care taker of our religious books. For sure they must have replaced the real one with the concocted ones.
When saddam Hussain a real muslim can print a huge numbers of certain book and destroy the old ones; for mere changing the name from sadum to saddam and fixing the forcast in his favour for shia to believe in, that for his time (saddam husain) there is a forcast written by Ali in one of his book, that in his period of government, islam would prevail all over the world.
So non muslim can totally remove the old books and rewrite and publish them.
What I believe now after so much discussions with different sect of muslims that the last KHUDBA was that I am leaving two thing between you , namely Quran for which he took responsibility to preserve and the second thing was People from family of rasoul (ahlul baat e Rasoul), if you would catch their DAMAN you would never go astray.
SADDAT E MOHAMMED were not supposed to take up jobs at all.
They were meant for explaining the quran and ahadeez sena ba seena, and they were the one responsible to do interpretation of certain ahadeez when ever required that is ejtehad. They were the one Quran says to us to give KHUMS.
Last KHUDBA does not say about the adadeez books collected by different people with different level of understanding.
So this is what I feel is correct regarding last khudba. Because all those
who were rulers in those days had written every thing in their favour in length. It is not the fault of today's people. They see the names and as they believe in them ,can not think or even try to feel for a blink of an eye that perhaps what others say might be correct.Bye
if the jews and christians have eaten up the real adith books and created fabrications then what about quran? how is that still in its present form?
yes it is allah who saved it but allah makes some things / people as a waseela for carying out his commands (not to be confused with the act of asking others for help other than allah, which is shirk), and the scholars of this ummah have been made the waseelah for preserving the quran and the sunnah by allah swt. they have preserved the entire islam intact, and could have made some mistakes in interpretation of it, but since the entire islam is intact, later scholars can always go back and recheck the work of earlier imams. that is why we have different fiqhas, some of the students of imam abu hanifa said that the interpretation of abu hanifa was not correct or could be improved upon. they were only able to do it because the islam was preserved in it exact form and evidence could be reanalyzed at any given time rather than to work only with the earlier interpretations.
The islam of muslims has so many sects, and the preserved islam what you are claiming is according to believe of every individual sect. So improvement of any kind would be according to that sects preserved believe only. This is the problem in all sects of islam and this is the way all sects of islam has different ahadeez. For example all Emamies fiqha consider an ahadeez authentic if only and only it has a chain of their imams as narrators.None of them believe in any hadeez if it has in chain ABU HURAERA as he was considered as enemy of Family of Rasoul in those days. And many more hadeez narrators are unacceptable by Emmamies.
Sunnis only believe in ahadeez as strong if narrated by companions of rasouls and also if are narrated by hazrat aeysha alone. Almost 400 or more very strong ahadeez in sunnis are only narrated by one lady hazrat aeyesha.
shia say that Quran does not approves any witness by a single lady. So all these ahadeez are weak. Because no one can deny hazrat aeysha being a lady only.
Therefore as there was forecast by prophet mohammed that after me you would divide into say 72 firqa, it was very much possible to have different ahadeez written by different sects.
So I think the last khudba if taken as that "I am leaving in you quran and sunnah does not apply to all muslim firqas,in the same way as does quran, but it would have done well cohesion among different sects of muslims if we would have taken the khudba as I am leaving in you two things Quran and AHLUL BAAEIT E RASOUL.
Since they were then, and they are present now also. And Quran has an aayat (If culprits, who harm islam by writing and distributing new changed quran have not yet taken it out or have not been successful in doing so), to give KHUMS to saydaats. Certain percent of your hard earned money, Zakat is haram on saydaats every one knows it.
If we would have used saydats and Quran the islamic world would have been different, and better of and more united. , But alas we had non saadats rulers, they did not follow the importance of ahlul baeit e rasoul, and that what is comming till date in majority of muslims.Walla hou allam bis souwab. Maa salama. sokoon
we beileve in all hadiths that contain a proven chain of narration to rasul :saw: we do not have selective islam, we do not reject evidence just because we hate some person…what if in your rejection of abu hurarah razi you reject an authentic hadith that conainted part of islam? do you not commit sin of rejecting truth when presented? think about it and sincerely answer me..do you think that abu hurairah or ayesha razi allah u tala anhu LIED about the prophet :saw:? can you seriously believe that?
and besides, ok if you think ahle bait can guide me..then i am asking those ahle bait to guide me too…but they are not here so how can they guide me? while on the other hand, the prophet saw said that quran and sunnah will guide us, and indeed sunnah is HERE and does contain truth…so i will stick to that inshallah
Dear Tandamazaq,
Thank you so much. You are right in asking me the above question. I am really a lot confused.
I think if we had and have possibility to get ahadeez from the family of rasoul, most intimate people to him.;Why did not all of the muslims took it from them. What and why it was the necessity for those people to not give importance to people of the family of rasoul?
So much so that when Quran was in the process of collection, no one went to ask fatima Zahra, asking, if her father, the prophet had trained her well and whether he had done necessary home work for her and her kids to be good muslims.?
Whether he had provided her with the quran or not? Whether he could train her only daughter regarding Quran and other acts of life? or whether they thought that he was a failure to do his job for her only daughter then how can anyone approves of him as perfect person in all respect?
Why was it important to ignore prophet's family regarding collection of quran? Such things reflect something:
!) There was some one who never wanted to give importance to his daughter or her family, reason best known to them.
2) Later ahadeez were not being asked from his family, why?
Is not this reflect that people of those days had doubt in prophet to be able to do his homework well for her daughter. They thought he might have not trained and equiped her daughter well with Quran and other acts(sunnah) as he did to his companions? or there was some rift between ahlul baait e rasoul and his companions.
May be due to the fact that hazrat Abu Bakar was khalifatul Waqt and sayada AYesha was the step mother of fatima zahra. This behavour is normal in ARabs till today.
There is no any possible good reason, to do so much hard work and not receveing all written and prepared items from the home of Prophet. So I am really confused--regarding collection of Ahadeez and ----even Quran, since in fatima's home along with quran even shane nazoul of every aayat was present. Since I believe that our prophet was at least had equiped her daughter and her family to the best, as they being prophet's responsibility of reflecting in him the best fatherhood quality.
Regarding companions with him all the time and learning every thing from him and being those who saw him. I have one thing to say:
It was our prophet's quality , his SERAT that all the people used to be around him, not the FAZELAT of companions.
He did not reject anyone of them, since he was not given any permission from GOD to select some and reject some people.
HE was asked by GOD to try to convert and bring every one to the path of islam with all his manners and love and affection. And so, that what he did. Here I would like to mention that there were many companions of prophet not only khulafaei Raseeda. So do not confuse yourself that I am talking about only four companions.
So in the light of above I am too confuse that who is right , those who have ahadeez from Home of prophet and a chain of people who had and have narrated ahadeez are people from prophet's family, for example shah abdul qadir jelani or other waliullahs.
I have a strong believe that there were/are jannati and jahanumi people in all times even at the time of prophet mohammed. At least he might have trained his family well for speaking the truth, so I think if he was not having any short coming in him as father and grand father and brother etc that family is the one who for sure had spoken the truth and BUS truth, nothing else. Where as among all other people of that time we are not sure about their destiny. THE DAY OF jdgement is fixed. On that day perhaps every one , all muslims would enter jannat , but can we claim now.? No! because if we say This, that, would go to jannat is declared, it is absurd and is against the rule of GOD, keeping judgement day fixed and all muslims must believe that there would be a day of judgement when AAMAL TOULAY JA EIN GA < MEZAN KHRE HOU GEY.
If any one denies this day, to be decisive day for all mankind and others, what shall we can say? about them. No one should dare to announce jannat and jahannum prior to the day of judgement. This is what I am feeling to believe. Bye sokoon
Bye sokoon
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by sokoon: *
So much so that when Quran was in the process of collection, no one went to ask fatima Zahra, asking, if her father, the prophet had trained her well and whether he had done necessary home work for her and her kids to be good muslims.?
[/QUOTE]
Does the rule you mentioned about a single lady witness apply here as well?
There were many people in that home.
The things were written.
It was not only Fatima Zahra , she had many sisters from Khadiejas previous husbands and were her sisters from her motherside and prophet has taken them as his own daughters.
After zaid the revealation came to call him with his original father's name; before this adopted or wives children used to take the new fathers name, as their father.So there were many persons in Prophets' family, prior to all other wives, even after the death of Khateja tul kubra.
^ Now if you'll care to answer my question - i'll rephrase it if i may: Would and do Shias accept Fatima's (r) witness if she is the only person as a witness for a hadith or event or whatever?
First thing there should be required shahadats to believe her, she knew that she only can not be taken as witness; not because she would speak lie but in case, if some words might have changed or she her self might have doubt that her father used this word or that.
For surity there should be shahadats as it is the rule of GOD in Quran for witness.
It was not the matter of her speaking from her mouth, every thing was written in her home infront of prophet and there were more than five people in that home to witness every thing.
Kabhe kabhar Thanday Dil say souch lay nei may kouei haraj nahei hei. Ka shayad, the others may be right. Every one is personally would answer the GOD for his Eman , Not a single Khalefa or prophet's wives have ever witnessed their assistance to take us in jannat. So why shall not we think keeping us far-outside our believe, to reach to the truth.
In an attempt to justify some people, are not we going far from reality, that our deeds , our believe, our being truthful, would lead us to a correct path only, no one has promised us to help us except prophet Mohammed (pbuh), in case we------