Saving is Sin?

Interesting…

***Saving is sin, and spending is virtue… ***
Interesting article written by an Indian Economist

Japanese save a lot. They do not spend much. Also Japan exports far more than it imports. Has an annual trade surplus of over 100 billions. Yet Japanese economy is considered weak, even collapsing.

Americans spend, save little. Also US imports more than it exports. Has an annual trade deficit of over $400 billion. Yet, the American economy is considered strong and trusted to get stronger.

But where from do Americans get money to spend?
They borrow from Japan, China and even India.
Virtually others save for the US to spend. Global savings are mostly invested in US, in dollars.
India itself keeps its foreign currency assets of over $50 billions in US securities. China has sunk over $160 billion in US securities. Japan’s stakes in US securities is in trillions.

Result:
The US has taken over $5 trillion from the world. So, as the world saves for the US, Americans spend freely. Today, to keep the US consumption going, that is for the US economy to work, other countries have to remit $180 billion every quarter, which is $2 billion a day, to the US!

A Chinese economist asked a neat question. Who has invested more, US in China, or China in US? The US has invested in China less than half of what China has invested in US.

The same is the case with India. We have invested in US over $50 billion. But the US has invested less than $20 billion in India.

Why the world is after US?
The secret lies in the American spending, that they hardly save. In fact they use their credit cards to spend their future income. That the US spends is what makes it attractive to export to the US. So US imports more than what it exports year after year.

The result:
The world is dependent on US consumption for its growth. By its deepening culture of consumption, the US has habituated the world to feed on US consumption. But as the US needs money to finance its consumption, the world provides the money.

It’s like a shopkeeper providing the money to a customer so that the customer keeps buying from the shop. If the customer will not buy, the shop won’t have business, unless the shopkeeper funds him. The US is like the lucky customer. And the world is like the helpless shopkeeper financier.

Who is America’s biggest shopkeeper financier? Japan of course. Yet it’s Japan which is regarded as weak. Modern economists complain that Japanese do not spend, so they do not grow. To force the Japanese to spend, the Japanese government exerted itself, reduced the savings rates, even charged the savers.

Even then the Japanese did not spend (habits don’t change, even with taxes, do they?). Their traditional postal savings alone is over $1.2 trillions, about three times the Indian GDP. Thus, savings, far from being the strength of
Japan, has become its pain. Hence, what is the lesson?
That is, a nation cannot grow unless the people spend, not save. Not just spend, but borrow and spend.

Dr. Jagdish Bhagwati, the famous Indian-born economist in the US, told Manmohan Singh that Indians wastefully save. Ask them to spend, on imported cars and, seriously, even on cosmetics! This will put India on a growth curve. This is one of the reason for MNC’s coming down to India, seeing the consumer spending.

‘Saving is sin, and spending is virtue.’
But before you follow this neo economics, get some fools to save so that you can borrow from them and spend!!!

Re: Saving is Sin?

the idea that americans dont save is a myth.

Re: Saving is Sin?

[quote="arjay, post:30, topic:169146"]

Interesting...........

**Saving is sin, and spending is virtue... **
Interesting article written by an Indian Economist

{quote]

May be this Indian Economist forgot one fact.


USA has forgiven more in other countries debts when those countries went broke in the 70's and 80's. India and Brazil comes to mind, and many others.


Plus the Marshall plan was all gratis for reconstruction of Europe and Japan after WW II.


I recall reading at one time USA was owed an amount equal to the total sum of India's currency, and USA simply forgave that and started with a clean slate.



Re: Saving is Sin?

You know this whole who saves who spends always fascinate me. In the end of the day its 'quality of life' you are comfortable enjoying.

Another interesting thing is that in Islam, zakat is on the saving, not earning. So a multi billion dollar man doesn't owe a single penny if all his money is invested.

Re: Saving is Sin?

^ Are you sure?

Re: Saving is Sin?

Interesting point of view, Ahmedjee.
Is it not one of those theorecital questions.....depending which sect you belong to and etc? I often find it very tricky when it comes to karz....but a planned karz contra also having savings. Im thinking about margen of income and taxrate etc.

Re: Saving is Sin?

I disagree with that, you may want to consult with an Alim.


A business is laible for Zakat on its net worth, only if you owe more than what the business is worth then one is exempt. better check on that.

Re: Saving is Sin?

One mouvli sahab here even said that you ought to pay zakat on house etc. even if you have it on loan..

Re: Saving is Sin?

By all means, consult an alim and its based on fiqh you follow.

The way I understand it the term 'invested' means in a risky business, which does not include gold, rocks, property (including house, animals etc.) or in modern term bonds or certificates. I personally think stocks are investments risky enough to be excluded from zakat but I am sure plenty disagree.

Someone wants to copy/paste some fatwa?

In either case, bundling up the money or hoarding it is not the spirit of Islam. But neither is borrowing and then frivolous spending it, especially on unearned luxury.

Re: Saving is Sin?

I dont mean to take things in such a direction regarding fatwa etc. Its a matter of imaan and doing proper research, as for a person as myself. Islam is simple in most aspects. I hate making things complicated just to justify for some personal benefits.

I think, even if you have loan in house/propety.....when sold with benefit then automaticly it calls for zakat. another thing is, having propety and also business.....its two different areas with each sort of risks. Im planning to donate a sudden % of every sale in future business. After having said that, when I will have profit...I intend to pay zakat. To donate is my own wish to give something back to the ancestral history.

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Shias only do once in a lifetime zakat right? I had a teacher and she had views like that..

Re: Saving is Sin?

i agree with Pathani. saving is essential for life as people age. Islam is never encouraging expensive and lavish living, so that must be an admonishment for simpler living which in turn mean, saving because you are not spending all that you may be able to and have earned.
we pay sales tax on our already taxed income.
how cruel is this?
we look for coupons to save 50 cents to more here and there.
& yet being a free market economic system, in america, a consumer cannot win for losing, when it comes to having a uniform rate of goods and services.
the only solution is - lighten up.
do not patronize your owing to anyone, namely credit borrowing.
buy less and only what you need.
spend wisely and not to make a show off.
stay within your means, but also not a miser.
over time effect of small and consistent savings will add up to a positive return.

for each and every working hour's labor that is paid, as professionals, working people can bank all their resources to make the most essential purchase of their life like buying a home earlier, best investment in education and fulfilling the need for medical care and unexpected expenses which can save lives.
financial literacy is a must for every materialism blinded society and its members.
personal and social service of stretching one's hard earned money can fail the agenda of capitalism.
valuing the usefulness, quality and price of any everyday bought or useable item from food to clothes & shoes to home furniture and so on, all have to be calculated by the purchaser.
that said, saving is not a sin.
if anything. it is a virtue which can prevent oneself from falling prey to the pit of borrowing and owing to someone else - individual or a corporate business, who are ready to make money off of you by any means, and any opportunity they might see. & as responsible and intelligent consumers, that must be checked.

Best,

Dushwari

Re: Saving is Sin?

doodo nahao phoolo phalo :)

Re: Saving is Sin?

It is sad that some people just like to complicate Islam (many of them call themselves Ulema too).

What I know simple rule of Zakat is that, Zakat gets due on everything that has value and is not in a person personal use. Rest, be that for business, hoarding or saving, Zakat gets due on all of them once they are with a person for more than a year.

[Even if a person gives loan to someone and expects to get it back (whether one gets the loan back or not is irrelevant), than that would count as saving and there would be Zakat on that every year. So, best way to give loan to someone is to give that as Qarz-e-Husna and that means, if the borrower pays back than Subhan-Allah and if not than forget that loan. There is no Zakat on Qarz-e-Husna given to someone].

There is no Zakat on earnings because earnings are not something that is with a person for over a year. If a person earns, do not spend and save that, than once that saved earning reaches one year, Zakat become due.