Saudis rethinking on Tribal traditions of child marriage

Society Religion & Philosophy
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as-slamau 'alaykum

I apologize in advance for harsh comments


insha'Allah, this is up to the khalifa to decide when Allah Ta'ala will give us victory over kuffaar. Unlike you people, we don't hesitate to say what Islam says or try to sugar coat it to make it look "good" to kufaar.


your failure to recognize my arguments and putting words in my mouth is absurd to say the least. And let me tell you that this is not the first time when you produced intellectually challenged responses to my arguments. Your miserable effort to attack me with straw man is worthy of note. When and where did I say that you've to get married before this age? When did I say that such marriages should be done? I CHALLENGE you to prove this! In fact, I've stated the opposite: such marriage shouldn't be done unless the benefit comprehensively outweigh the risk. I'm ONLY arguing the permissibility of such marriages.

You are the one who said that such marriages cannot be done because it is not norm of our society. And before you these modernists were arguing that, till you decided to join them. Why? because the ta'ssub you have for us.


so what? why are you making sweeping generalizations? Why were women ready at age of 12 a century ago and before that for millenia? The fact is that your corrupt methodology doesn't let you perceive and understand the reasoning for such drastic change within a century.


I asked you 2 times already: do you have a sharee' evidence that this particular act of Prophet (sal-allahu 'alayhi wa salam) is not for his ummah to follow? Because for marriages more than 4, we have the sharee' evidence, the Book of Allah. What are you going to say about the understanding of scholars from all 4 madaahb?


according to who? Parents can draw this marriage contract and when he/she is physically and psychologically mature enough, he/she can decide whether to go ahead with it or withdraw from it.

Do you think 14 years old understand the marriage contract and marriage responsibilities? In the past, the societies deemed them fit for such a role and implication of it. It is not anymore because the time has changed.

Maturity comes by undergoing experience of taking responsibility. Because the society has morally decayed and bankrupted within last century, the responsibility age moved from 10,12,13,14,15,18,20. Hence, it played a role in building immature character of teenagers and pre-teen. In addition, it also laid basis for your argument as you regard this unfeasible.

@desertbird

save your breath

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Re: Saudis rethinking on Tribal traditions of child marriage

You are just stuck with your nonsense. Late marriages in present has nothing to do with morals or values but the extended childhood.

You wrote:

*I asked you 2 times already: do you have a sharee' evidence that this particular act of Prophet (sal-allahu 'alayhi wa salam) is not for his ummah to follow? Because for marriages more than 4, we have the sharee' evidence, the Book of Allah. What are you going to say about the understanding of scholars from all 4 madaahb? *

My answer:

Exactly. We have proof in Quran for four marriages but do we have proof for marriage with a child who hasn't reached the age of puberty?
Prophet(SAW) said that marriage without woman's consent is not valid and this is the proof of my arguments against child marriages.

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Re: Saudis rethinking on Tribal traditions of child marriage

I said before that people used to graduate at age 12-13 and were able to earn a living, do you really think this change is because of low morals? Get your facts straight, please.

We are living in a period where morals are loosing the importance and it is even necessary to pass these laws for children’s protection.

Just look at this one examples out of many where people are abusing children in the name of marriage, why do you want little girls to go through all this suffering?

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Re: Saudis rethinking on Tribal traditions of child marriage

^wow hareem are you trying to say child marriaegs are NOT perrmissible? because appears to me the guy is saying they are permissible not recommended. its upto ulema to rule them out or keep em in.

Full Time Masti - May 2013
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You must be talking about the decay in the tribal societies such as the Islamic Emirates of Afghanistan and Islamic Emirate of Somalia.

Yes they have decayed to an extent that now their cities their schools and their office buildings are all bombed out shacks, all thanks to Islamic Jihad.

No wonder islamists in swat were kidnapping and lashing little girls to make sure they marry a Taliban.

No wonder Islamists blew up all the girls schools. This was to prove that girls must marry at age 9 and to a Maulana.

Very good.

Then every major intersection will be called Khooni chowk, every stadium will be the scene of burqa clad women being shot in the head, people will walk around naked but surely they will have an AK-47 on their shoulder. That will definitely be a "victory" over kuffar. Masha Allah.

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Re: Saudis rethinking on Tribal traditions of child marriage

^u stay on the topic wonderfully.

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The permissibility depends on definition of "child marriages". If "child marriage" means marriage of a girl who has reached the age of puberty which is generally 12-13 and in rare cases 9, and that with her consent, and then its also up to her if she wants to live with her husband or not, in other words the consummation of marriage, if she doesn't then there's no duty upon her husband to take care of her.

Others try to justify marriage of children and infants and toddlers as a contract between two parties, that might be parents or guardians and allow the child to take divorce when he/she reaches the age of puberty. Now it is proven from the ahadith that Prophet(SAW) himself said that a marriage is not valid without the woman's consent and I take Prophet(SAW)'s words rather than Aisha(ra) or any other Sahabi(ra)'s words on a same issue.

Aisha(ra) just narrated an incident from her memory(that might not be entirely correct, probably she forgot the correct age etc) but other ahadith that clearly say that marriage without women's consent is not valid and where a woman took divorce from her husband, though she didn't have a problem with her husband but only because the marriage was forced upon her by her father she finished the marriage.

Also, we don't know the details of Aisha(ra)'s marriage contract, we don't know if it was a nikah like signing paper and stuff or just a verbal contract between Abu Bakr(ra) and Prophet(SAW), if anyone knows then please do inform me.

As for Ulema, the four schools of fiqh have already decided that for marriage a woman has to be adult and sane and marriage without her consent is not valid.
Only in n Hanafi fiqh, if parents find a suitable match for the woman then marriage is valid but what is that suitable match, not a 50 years old for a 14-15 years old girl because it is not easy to marry a much older man because not everyone is a Prophet or Wali.

There's nothing to my knowledge in four fiqh that allows the marriage of children who haven't reached the age of puberty.

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Re: Saudis rethinking on Tribal traditions of child marriage

In addition to this, the age of puberty is not enough to consider a child an adult in some cultures and countries, for example, in my village in Pakistan, they don't marry their girls at 12 or even 15, most girls i know got married after the age of 20 and more, in Spain they marry off their girls at 12 but in UK even 20 is considered quite early, i'm not saying if they're right or wrong but its the culture and norm that also counts.

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Re: Saudis rethinking on Tribal traditions of child marriage

@ AllahKaBanda

:salam: brother

The reason why I said earlier that it was a pointless motion to get young girls married is because according to your explanation the girl is subject to choice when she gets old enough. So the whole nikkah is really a pretence until that time.

I think the Aisha (RA) hadith has been taken far too one-sidedly out of context. I have heard other riwayats that she was explicitly asked permission to get married I’ll try to get references.

In the meantime I would like to see references of how the pre-pubescent females can be married off without their say so, and that it becomes binding when they come of age unless they default.

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kind of makes sense. but i keep thinking you both are saying somewhat similar thing. marriage isnt valid without women's consent but supposing a girl's wali did her nikkah as per hanafi fiqh before she reached puberty, upon her puberty she doesnot want to continue with that nikkah. i would think that she would need divorce before she gets married to someone else rather than entering into another nikkah just like that.