Saudia seeks Pakistani help for Syria War

[khoji]

Re: Saudia seeks Pakistani help for Syria War

Last I checked, there is no war going on in Bahrain. Syrian war was very local initially until later on, there were other players coming in the field.

Khoji, you criticize saudia but how come are you not criticizing Iran for its meddling in Syria?

You are either ignorant of what is going on there, or are blindfolded with prejudice to see the reality. You tell me that last you checked there was no war going on in Bahrain. Well, there NEVER WAS any war started by oppressed shia population there anyway. It was Saudi foreigners who attacked Bahraini opposition protests only because they were Shias. Meanwhile, the Saudi Wahhabis continued to tell 'Islamic' lies about Iranian involvement in the unrest while totally ignoring the actual reason of unrest which was the total social murder of majority Bahrainis due to their sect.
Do you disagree with any of that above? Admit it if you are not a prejudiced freak.

About Syria, my personal view is that democracy should be unleashed everywhere in the Middle East including Syria, Saudi, Bahrain, Jordan, Egypt, UAE, whatever. This is why I supported the opposition demands in the beginning of Syrian conflict. That was me. As far as Iran or Hezbollah, they had a lot of interest in Assad because Assad provided a conduit for Iran to supplying arms to Hezbollah against Israel. But even then Iran did not send military support to Assad. All its support was political in nature.
But then Syrian conflict was given a sectarian color by Wahhabis and other prejudiced people who only saw sectarian angle in Iran's political support and Assad's heavy-handed tactics on opposition, while ignoring Assad's help to Iran in resistance against Israel.
Due to this takfiris from around the world started flocking in Syria. Unlike Syrian rebels, they wanted a Taliban-like khariji government in Syria. And as time passed, they became stronger and stronger and replaced Syrian rebels in effectiveness in fighting Assad.
So now it was not just about democracy anymore. There is no way a Muslim could support takfiris like that. This is why I am amazed how can some people demand Assad's removal knowing fully well that what will follow would be a takfiri state.

These takfiri kharijis acknowledged many times their desire to massacre Shia or Alawi minority if they get upper hand.
They swore to destroy rawza of Lady Zaynab, Prophet's grand daughter. She is one of the revered people in Islam. And showed they were serious about it by digging up the grave of a Companion of Prophet, Hujr ibn Addi.

It was at this point that both Iran and Hezbollah started getting involved in stopping those takfiri khariji terrorists.

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I still believe secular democracy should replace Assad's regime. But if replacing Assad means advent of takfiris then I would rather support Assad.
I also believe that it is still possible for Syrian rebels to replace Assad. However, they should first make sure that takfiris do not get support from Saudis and other Gulf states.

[sanjsingh]

Re: Saudia seeks Pakistani help for Syria War

What happened in Bahrain is totally unacceptable and the majority should get their rightful due. However, the same should apply in Syria, dont you think. I condemn both, can you explain why you are one sided in this. You seem to condemn what happened in Bahrain which in comparison to what the Butcher of Syria did to his own people is nothing. Let see you condemn the butcher of Syria known as animal Assad. I am with the people of Syria and people of Bahrain. are you? Just a simple yes or no as to your condemnation of this butcher.

I absolutely agree that Assad is a butcher and as such he ought to be condemned for the mad man he is, however from what I have learnt in recent years he is no worse than the other oppresive leaders of the ME. He has suppressed the people of his country just as the other Middle Eastern leaders have done. The only difference is the other butchers either managed to quell the uprisings or were defeated themselves. Assad is unique in the way he has managed to linger on for such a long time and all commentators suggest a stalemate. I may be wrong but does this not in itself suggest that there is much support for him at home?

I am beginning to have a particular dislike towards the Saudi leaders as according to many Muslims here and elsewhere they have been promoting their band of terror around the Islamic world, and fuelling fundamentalism in non-Muslim countries too. I really fail to see how they are concerned about anything but their own power even offering to pay the West to remove Assad.
I really wish peace and prosperity to all the people of the ME but there are many powerful people there who are exploiting the situation and their religion. The young jihadis who are flocking to Syria to overthrow this corrupt Alawite regime will only replace the leadership with another authoritarian regime and the people of Syria will continue to suffer.
I am willing to listen to reason but it does seem pretty clear.

[Doppleganger]

Re: Saudia seeks Pakistani help for Syria War

Sanji, if everyone is the same then you should not be complaining about which and whom of these protestors are right and just shut up then, right? :D

As for khoji, challo at least you didn't go berserk like you do when altaf hussain is mentioned. As for bahrain and syria comparison, it is very legitimate one to make as it was Assad's forces that fired on protestors (normal for them but this time it backfired). Al qaeda couldn't do a revolt in Syria back when it was at its peak in Iraq, so nice try trying to paint everyone as AQ. You pretty much sound like some of the american 'friends" here who "support" Assad at work etc.

[sanjsingh]

Re: Saudia seeks Pakistani help for Syria War

Sanji, if everyone is the same then you should not be complaining about which and whom of these protestors are right and just shut up then, right? :D

Can you highlight where I have been complaining about protesters? I think you've completely misunderstood my post.

[khoji]

Re: Saudia seeks Pakistani help for Syria War

Sanji, if everyone is the same then you should not be complaining about which and whom of these protestors are right and just shut up then, right? :D

As for khoji, challo at least you didn't go berserk like you do when altaf hussain is mentioned. As for bahrain and syria comparison, it is very legitimate one to make as it was Assad's forces that fired on protestors (normal for them but this time it backfired). Al qaeda couldn't do a revolt in Syria back when it was at its peak in Iraq, so nice try trying to paint everyone as AQ. You pretty much sound like some of the american 'friends" here who "support" Assad at work etc.

Well, I learned the kind of guy Altaf is very early. But I was kinda forced to stick to continue defending the party because I believe many people abuse Altaf and MQM due to ethnic prejudice. I know bad things related to MQM but it is unsettling to see people making Altaf or MQM equivalent to devils, calling them names, and abusing them on totally false senseless premises.

About Syria, Assad is a dictator just like any other M.E. dictator. What he did was nothing new. All of his neighbors did similar things to their population at some point of time. You can search this forum. You will see that I did not lend any support to Assad in the beginning of opposition protests for freedom. I was annoyed only when Saudis and other dictators jumped in to help against their fellow-dictator only because of his beliefs, and did not care that their financial support was going to the worst of the human-beings in the present world.

About Syria and Bahrain, Assad may be a brutal dictator in face of opposition agitating to throw him out of government, but in normal conditions he is a secular person for sure. There was no religious persecution in Syria against Sunnis or anyone else. This is unlike places like Bahrain or Saudis or Malaysia.

I do not call everyone in Syrian opposition as al Qaeda. As always, you are reading between the lines. But only an ignorant or a prejudiced bigot would say that khariji takfiris are not the most powerful and most effective group in opposition. I can quote several articles to prove this point. If Assad really is gone, it would be nothing but al Qaeda taking control of the country. It would be a nightmare for not just minorities in Syria but also for the Muslim world in general.

So my support to Assad is not for the love of him but out of fear of the devils in opposition.

[sanjsingh]

Re: Saudia seeks Pakistani help for Syria War

Who here thinks that the Saudis and Qataris are supplying weapons and finance to the Syrian rebels because they genuinely care about the Syrian people. Or is it simply because they are trying to overthrow a regime who they regard as non believers?

[picoico]

Re: Saudia seeks Pakistani help for Syria War

@sanjsingh

Who here thinks that the Saudis and Qataris are supplying weapons and finance to the Syrian rebels because they genuinely care about the Syrian people. Or is it simply because they are trying to overthrow a regime who they regard as non believers?

Probably nobody, and it is because it's quite clear Saudis have an irrational fear of Iran. Well, to be fair, Saudi was a target of the revolution in the early days...but that was then. Whatever. Who here supports the massacre of Sunni villagers for the sake of an ideological stance? That is the real question.

Genuine concern...bah. People bring up fictional accounts of what IF Iran gets involve here and there, and are unwilling to admit the nature of Assad's crime and Iranian complicity in it here....so it's a bit audacious to ask about people who "genuinely care" about anything except flimsy political clap trap.

The other question I ask is would Syria be another Bosnia - internment camps, mass graves and all, had it not been for such intervention on the part of Saudis and Qataris...

So, who gives a rats arese about "genuine" concern so long as that fate is avoided. Don't think Assad Jr is capable? See what his daddy did...look up Hama...1982. Now ask how many here would actually have approved of the slaughter of 10,000 men, women and children because they were "takfiri" or whatever jargon you want to project onto innocents to justify their slaughter.

[picoico]

Re: Saudia seeks Pakistani help for Syria War

What happened in Bahrain is totally unacceptable and the majority should get their rightful due. However, the same should apply in Syria, dont you think. I condemn both, can you explain why you are one sided in this. You seem to condemn what happened in Bahrain which in comparison to what the Butcher of Syria did to his own people is nothing. Let see you condemn the butcher of Syria known as animal Assad. I am with the people of Syria and people of Bahrain. are you? Just a simple yes or no as to your condemnation of this butcher.

Nicely put...

[sanjsingh]

Re: Saudia seeks Pakistani help for Syria War

What was the condition of the Sunnis in Syria prior to the war. Were they treated differently to say the Shia in Bahrain or Saudi?
It really does seem the problems in the middle east are mainly of a sectarian nature.

Picocio you're suggesting that had Saudi not intervened in this war then tens of thousands would have been killed by Assad. Maybe that would have happened maybe not. Others would suggest that had the Saudis not intervened then the war would not have accelerated and thousands would have been saved. Anyway may god grant us all wisdom and bring freedom to all the people of the middle east.

[picoico]

Re: Saudia seeks Pakistani help for Syria War

@sanjsingh

What was the condition of the Sunnis in Syria prior to the war. Were they treated differently to say the Shia in Bahrain or Saudi?

Irrelevant. The point is, people are displaced and tens, if not hundreds, of thousand are dead. This is true in Syria. This is NOT true in Bahrain. This doesn't make the regime in Bahrain right...it doesn't make them saints. What it does make them is a red herring...and exactly what I said...irrelevant to the situation in Syria.

[quote]

Picocio you're suggesting that had Saudi not intervened in this war then tens of thousands would have been killed by Assad.

[/quote]

My point was they did it before in 1982, completley at the initiative of the Assad regime. My point was that the current atrocities seemingly happened BEFORE a Saudi dime was spent on Syria. So let's get causality straight.

[quote]

Others would suggest that had the Saudis not intervened then the war would not have accelerated and thousands would have been saved.

[/quote]

It woud be instructive to plot out the events on a timeline.

[quote]

Anyway may god grant us all wisdom and bring freedom to all the people of the middle east.
[/quote]

Ameen.

[Doppleganger]

Re: Saudia seeks Pakistani help for Syria War

@sanjsingh

What was the condition of the Sunnis in Syria prior to the war. Were they treated differently to say the Shia in Bahrain or Saudi? It really does seem the problems in the middle east are mainly of a sectarian nature.

Picocio you're suggesting that had Saudi not intervened in this war then tens of thousands would have been killed by Assad. Maybe that would have happened maybe not. Others would suggest that had the Saudis not intervened then the war would not have accelerated and thousands would have been saved. Anyway may god grant us all wisdom and bring freedom to all the people of the middle east.

An alawi elite holds power in Syria and when the arab spring air hit the Syrians, Assad cracked don hard instead f accommodating them. The problem in bahrain also seems to be that the shiites don't like the suni monarchy to be sitting in power.

[khoji]

Re: Saudia seeks Pakistani help for Syria War

@Doppleganger

The problem in bahrain also seems to be that the shiites don't like the suni monarchy to be sitting in power.

Absolutely ignorant comment. Shias don't like the monarchs because they have made majority population of Bahrain into a third class citizen. Even foreigners like Pakistanis are better there.

Every other comment you post is so twisted and preposterous that I wonder whether you live on Planet Saudi or like to spout blatant lies.

[khoji]

Re: Saudia seeks Pakistani help for Syria War

Assad’s alternative in Syria is nothing but Qaeda. To prove the point see below:

Syria: Why Some Revolutionaries Are Picking Assad Over Islamist Rebels | TIME.com
Dec. 09, 2013

Hundreds of activists have watched in desperation as the revolution they launched to overthrow the repressive regime of Syrian President Bashar Assad threatens to deliver their country into the hands of equally oppressive Islamist radicals determined to turn Syria into an Islamic caliphate. “A lot of former activists are now saying to me, ‘When the choice is between Daish and Assad, I am going for Assad,’” says Randa Slim, a Syria expert at the Washington-based Middle East Institute, using the Syrian Arabic word for ISIS. To be sure, not all the rebel groups share the same ideology, but the most effective fighting groups, with their ranks filled by foreign jihadists, funded by private donors in the Gulf and backed by al-Qaeda, are gaining ground. As they grow, they are squeezing out the activists who dreamed of a Syria founded on democratic representation, freedom of religion and freedom of speech.
In March 2011, Nawfal joined the Syrian revolutionaries protesting the repressive regime of President Assad. When Raqqa fell to the rebels in April 2013, she was one of the first to cheer. But then she got a closer look at the rebels. Raqqa had been taken over by al-Qaeda sympathizers who immediately started implementing their harsh interpretation of Islamic law. Music, photography and cigarettes were forbidden. Women were instructed to cover their heads and dress “modestly” — even though Nawfal wears the tightly wrapped headscarf of a conservative Muslim, the rebels objected to her wearing trousers. Anyone who objected to their ideology was tried, and punished, as an apostate. Dissidents disappeared. Nawfal started wondering what, exactly, she had been liberated from. So she started protesting and made a series of anti-ISIS videos.

Like Nawfal, 29-year-old Abu Samer from Tartous on the Mediterranean coast was an early supporter of the push to overthrow Assad. Now he thinks it was a mistake.Arming the rebels, he says, using a nickname to protect his safety, **was akin to arming the next generation of **sectarian dictators.

May God save Syrians from prejudice-filled Pakistanis who wish that Syria be ruled by those khariji munafiqeen.

[Doppleganger]

Re: Saudia seeks Pakistani help for Syria War

@khoji

Absolutely ignorant comment. Shias don’t like the monarchs because they have made majority population of Bahrain into a third class citizen. Even foreigners like Pakistanis are better there.

Every other comment you post is so twisted and preposterous that I wonder whether you live on Planet Saudi or like to spout blatant lies.

And you have a dual citizenship of syria and bahrain, right?

[sanjsingh]

Re: Saudia seeks Pakistani help for Syria War

Do people here believe that the foreign fighters who are mainly funded by the Saudis and Qataris are fighting because they genuinely feel for the people of Syria and are not fighting against Assad because of the sect he belongs too?
If Assad was a Sunni would the Saudis had continued to fund these militants, soldiers, terrorists or whatever you would like to call them?

[Pathan_Bhai]

Re: Saudia seeks Pakistani help for Syria War

^It's not Assad's sect that bother Saudis. It is his political affiliations that disturbs them. By the way, I recommend everybody to read Irish journalist, Patrick Cockburn's recent articles on Middle East as he has written some fascinating items on the goings in the ME.

[sanjsingh]

Re: Saudia seeks Pakistani help for Syria War

@Pathan_Bhai

^It's not Assad's sect that bother Saudis. It is his political affiliations that disturbs them. By the way, I recommend everybody to read Irish journalist, Patrick Cockburn's recent articles on Middle East as he has written some fascinating items on the goings in the ME.

Would you care to expand your explanation? From my understanding Syria (along with Iran) is the only relatively significant threat to Israel posed by another middle eastern country and that is why the West want to remove him. What are the motives of the Saudis, the Qataris and Turks who all happen to be Sunni dominated nations.

Thanks for answering in advance.

[sanjsingh]

Re: Saudia seeks Pakistani help for Syria War

I was hoping somebody could answer my question above.

[picoico]

Re: Saudia seeks Pakistani help for Syria War

@sanjsingh

Do people here believe that the foreign fighters who are mainly funded by the Saudis and Qataris are fighting because they genuinely feel for the people of Syria and are not fighting against Assad because of the sect he belongs too? If Assad was a Sunni would the Saudis had continued to fund these militants, soldiers, terrorists or whatever you would like to call them?

This is the second time you asked the same question. The motivation of the fighters is irrelevant, so long as they can provide security to the beleaguered folks without committing atrocities of their own. Thus far, Assad has the upper hand on the latter front, on a scale not seen in the region for a while.

Let's ask this question when the rebels start indiscriminate slaughter of civilians on the scale of entire towns.

As for Assad's sect, had he been as close to Iran as he is now, regardless, the Saudi response would have been the same. The Saudis also supported the Egyptian military against the Muslim brotherhood, due to the latter's reach-out to Iran.

[sanjsingh]

Re: Saudia seeks Pakistani help for Syria War

This is the second time you asked the same question. The motivation of the fighters is irrelevant, so long as they can provide security to the beleaguered folks without committing atrocities of their own. Thus far, Assad has the upper hand on the latter front, on a scale not seen in the region for a while.

Let's ask this question when the rebels start indiscriminate slaughter of civilians on the scale of entire towns.

As for Assad's sect, had he been as close to Iran as he is now, regardless, the Saudi response would have been the same. The Saudis also supported the Egyptian military against the Muslim brotherhood, due to the latter's reach-out to Iran.

It is interesting that you refuse to answer the question picoico.if we can understand their motive then that can give an indication of what is to come.
However the last part of your post does answer it really. The Saudis are against Assad because he is close to Iran not because they care about the people of Syria.