Saudi Want Muslim Countries to clear up US mess in Iraq!

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
1

Saudi Arabia has proposed that a new international military force drawn exclusively from Muslim countries be sent to Iraq.

The plan was raised in talks between US Secretary of State Colin Powell and senior Saudi officials in the city of Jeddah.

A number of Islamic nations had been approached, a Saudi official said.

The Saudi Foreign Minister, Saud al-Faisal, confirmed that preliminary discussions had taken place about a Muslim force, but gave no details.

A US state department spokesman told reporters the talks dealt with facilitating “the deployment of troops from Muslim countries not bordering Iraq to help… Iraqis establish security.”

This is a goal “we support and we will keep talking about”, Richard Boucher said in comments reported by AFP news agency.

A senior Saudi official said the kingdom had been exploring the idea for the last two weeks - and had made initial approaches to a range of Islamic nations.
Saudis propose Miltary force for Iraq

Hmmmm any ideas what wrong with this news. Well first of all Saudi arabia could not plan even a 2 year old childs birthday party. SO we know this plan for muslim force is definetly a Amerikkan Plan straight out the Pentagon given a Saudi front.

**This is a goal “we support and we will keep talking about”, Richard Boucher said in comments reported by AFP news agency. ** this alone gives it away as a US pet project.

US messed up Iraq big time now they want Saudi and rest to clear up the mess.

2

^

[QUOTE]
Saudi Arabia has proposed that a new international military force drawn exclusively from Muslim countries be sent to Iraq.

The plan was raised in talks between US Secretary of State Colin Powell and senior Saudi officials in the city of Jeddah.
[/QUOTE]

If it’s a Saudi plan, why do they have to discuss it with the Americans in the first place? Why not discuss within Organization of Islamic Countries? At least it would have given this impotent good-for-nothing organization something to talk about justifying its very reason of existence.

I think it’s really an American plan under Saudi cover to get Muslim soldiers as the cannon fodder for the insurgents in Iraq. Recall Somalia?

[QUOTE]
A number of Islamic nations had been approached, a Saudi official said.
[/QUOTE]

Let me guess? Pakistan? Bangladesh? Morocco? Tunisia? Mali? Mauritania?

All the poor countries hungry for petrodollars; and willing governments to carry out any instructions coming their way from Washington. Saudi will surely not be contributing any of its own soldiers; they will have to pick up the bill though.

[QUOTE]
The Saudi Foreign Minister, Saud al-Faisal, confirmed that preliminary discussions had taken place about a Muslim force, but gave no details.
[/QUOTE]

How could he give the details when he doesn’t have them himself? Poor chap. He will release the details as soon they have been finalized in Washington.

[QUOTE]
US messed up Iraq big time now they want Saudi and rest to clear up the mess.
[/QUOTE]

Willing slaves.

3

well Saudia Arabia can send their own non-existant military.

4

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Ibn Sadique: *
^

If it’s a Saudi plan, why do they have to discuss it with the Americans in the first place? Why not discuss within Organization of Islamic Countries? At least it would have given this impotent good-for-nothing organization something to talk about justifying its very reason of existence.

I think it’s really an American plan under Saudi cover to get Muslim soldiers as the cannon fodder for the insurgents in Iraq. Recall Somalia?

Let me guess? Pakistan? Bangladesh? Morocco? Tunisia? Mali? Mauritania?

All the poor countries hungry for petrodollars; and willing governments to carry out any instructions coming their way from Washington. Saudi will surely not be contributing any of its own soldiers; they will have to pick up the bill though.

How could he give the details when he doesn’t have them himself? Poor chap. He will release the details as soon they have been finalized in Washington.

Willing slaves.
[/QUOTE]

Alhamduilah muslims can see right through this plans by the kuffar and its agents.

Only problem now we have to expose this things and do something about it.

Going to the UN, US, UK, EU, etc for soloutins is no point because they not created for benefit for muslims in first place and is like taking poison everytime!

5

SHAME on Saudi Arabia

americans are invading our brother Muslim country Iraq

and Saudia wants to send their army and other Muslim countries army to protect the american army there

this is the height of beghairti and disloyalty with our Iraqi brethren

i'd like to see the Saudi rulers who've taken this decision to go and fight in Iraq first rather than sitting in their castles

imho no Muslim country should send its troops to Iraq and all the Muslim countries should unite and tell America to get the hell out of Iraq

6

Perhaps it has nothing to do with politics. Perhaps it has something to do with over one hundred Muslims killed yesterday?

Perhaps the Iraqi people have suffered enough, and by getting the US out the Muslim world can start to work together and solve it's own problems.

Kind of funny to think that there would be Muslim troops standing around to protect free and fair elections however. Many would question why their home countries do not have free and fair elections.

Never mind...

7

Difficult to decide who is the bigger hypcrite.

8

Ohioguy, why doesnt the US mind its own business?

And why should we have free and fair elections or democracy? Is it any of the US's business whether we all have democracy or fight amonst each other and die? We're free to do what we want.

I'm a Pakistani and I don't WANT free and fair elections in Pakistan. Why should the US come and say they want democracy in Pakistan?

China is a communist country. Its doing fine too.

Why should the US decide whats good for others. You dont even understand the way our political system works and what works best for our society but you're there to impose on us. Why?

Live and LET LIVE. Everyone should mind their own business.

9

Irem,

First of all, I believe that freedom is as important to a successful society as air is to a human being. If you look at history, there have been virtually no wars between Democratic countries. There have been fewer Government induced famines, riots, and domestic violence against the people by the government, (a term coined Democide).

Read the following web site, by a researcher, an excellent statistician, and a Nobel Peace Prize nominee. The disclosures of deaths by government are absolutely shocking! Then read his treatice on “Democratic Peace”.

If you think Hitler was bad, read up on Stalin, Lenin, the Chines purges, and then come to a judgement with these facts. You are an educated person, put the facts in front of you, and then ask yourself should some form of Democracy be the goal of every country? Adapt to Islamic or Judeo-Christian beliefs if you wish, but Democracy in and of itself prevents deaths, while totalitarianism, in all of it’s forms, kills.

Here is an introduction on the chapter called Deka-Megamurders:

"Some regimes have murdered 10,000,000 or more people. This is more than the death toll of World War I. Three regimes have even murdered more than 20,000,000, itself more than the combat dead of World War II. No one can absorb these numbers; they are intellectually and morally indigestible. Beyond belief. By far, the media and literature on genocide and mass murder have devoted most attention to the Holocaust. But even those publicizing this particular evil seem unaware of the total murdered by Hitler and his henchmen-about 21,000,000. Moreover, aside from the Holocaust, there seems to be little general knowledge that there were even greater megamurderers. The purpose of this theme page, then, is to reference what is available on this site that deals with these truly evil regimes. I hope that thereby more attention will be devoted to them, that we learn from their bloodletting, and that their mountain of victims will be remembered and memorialized. "

10

Ohioguy, :slight_smile:

Democracy, as it is viewed in your society, cannot be enforced in our society right now.

There’s a feudal system we have. Its basically like this: A bunch of people own certain portions of land. Most of the country is owned by a small group of people. These are agricultural lands and the people working here are poor and answerable directly to the owner of the land. Whenever elections happen, these same people are therefore elected from that particular constituency, and then depending on which bigger party gives these people what they want, they end up coming to the parliament on that party’s ticket. So basically its the same faces and families again and again in the parliament. This is not democracy.

We need to improve our social infrastructure, in terms of literacy and economic equality, before we can implement democracy.

And what about the democracy in America? Didn’t Gore get more total votes than Bush and even then Bush came to power. That ain’t democracy. You guys have your own definition of things. We have ours. Why force political systems on us? We know whats best for us. If we don’t, we’ll suffer but we’ll learn but its best if both countries minded their own business.

BTW, who said there’s complete freedom in America? :wink: Yeah America has a lot of freedom, but our society has some liberties which you guys don’t have either :wink: In America you’re a slave to the laws. Here, there’s anarchy and madness, that’s a freedom in itself :wink: :hehe: :slight_smile:

11

^ Democracy is a form of government and not a kind of certificate that you get after completing a certain level of education. People in some other third world countries are as illiterate as in Pakistan then why democracy is thriving in those countries.

12

Irem,

Democracy is simply a fair system. It is not dictators, not war lords, and not feudal leaders everytime. Democracy is not a system of total freedoms. It is the will of the people.

Start with these ground tenets. Free and fair elections. Political freedom of speech, Elections free of coersion and violence, a fair judiciary system, freedom from corruption, and a system of checks and balances so that one man, or party or insitution cannot become too powerful.

The fact that Gore got more votes but fewer elctoral votes is actaully a long standing Democratic rule. It was specifically designed so that large populous states do not have complete control in elections, and so that "minority" states have a say in government. Gore took his challenge all the way up to the Supreme Court, and they uphled the election. That is an example of Democracy in action, as well as a smooth passage of power in government. that is very much a strength, not a weakness.

Most Muslim countries are no more backward and uneducated than the Americans who founded this coutry 300 years ago. To postpone the day of freedoms in Arab countries is simply a convenience for those currently in power. Every Democracy is a rocky start. Old ways die hard. It is far easier to cling to the security of a King, Queen, dictator or tyrant, than to allow the people to lead.

The Muslim force that is being proposed will fail precisely because of elections. Can you imagine the military of Egypt, going home having defended polling places in Iraq asking why there should not be similar elections in Egypt? It will never happen, as it is not in the interest of dictators to help democracy.

13

OG's post is quite ironic .. considering the present state of the Union.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Ohioguy: *
Start with these ground tenets. Free and fair elections.
[/quote]

we have no such thing anymore.. Florida is just the little sore on the larger sore.

[quote]
Political freedom of speech,
[/quote]

in 'free speech zones'..

[quote]
Elections free of coersion and violence
[/quote]

not much violence needed in having Electronic Voting machines without Audit trails.

[quote]
a fair judiciary system
[/quote]

which can give momentous rulings like electing Presidents and/or allowing indefinite detention of citizens.

[quote]
freedom from corruption
[/quote]

and freedom to collect millions as political donations from corporations and other vested interests.

[quote]
a system of checks and balances so that one man, or party or insitution cannot become too powerful.
[/quote]

biggest joke of them all.. with the President acquiring unpralleled powers to incarcerate citizens, authorize wars and pre-emptive strikes and clamp down on opposition by draconian acts with Orweillian names.

[quote]
Can you imagine the military of Egypt, going home having defended polling places in Iraq asking why there should not be similar elections in Egypt? It will never happen, as it is not in the interest of dictators to help democracy.
[/QUOTE]

wrong as it's not in the interest of powers to be who support the dictatorship.. if u have to criticize.. be fair and acknowledge it's as much a problem of your tax money being used to maintain these Dictatorships across the Muslim world as much as the inaction of the Muslims who await some divine intervention and refuse to uprise.

14

PA,

Open a new thread for your US bashing. If Gore had thought that the election system was unjust do you think it would be a HUGE issue for this election? Half of those appointed to the Supreme Court were Democratic Nominees. And NEVER has there been an ounce of scandal on the Supreme Court.

Free Speech? Ask Michael Moore! Money in politics? Sure, Howard Dean is using the internet, and Kerry has raised as much as Bush??! Hardly seems to be a huge problem, however McCain had some better ideas... While the Patriot Act is a bit overboard, the challenges before the Supreme Court will settle the more controversial issues. In prior periods we set up internment camps for foreign born nationals. We are a long way away from that...

Lastly, You are talking about the SAUDIs sponsoring a Muslim force. The Saudis let NO ONE vote. Not a voting machine around for thousands of miles. Saddam had 99.9% of the voters vote for him, and not a peep of problem on this! You are fiddling while Rome burns....

15

now u see how criticism hurts OG? ;)

the "Muslim" world probably feels the same way about your "Muslim bashing".. yes your observations and recommendations have a hint of truth in them.. but all is not bad.. do u not think Pakistanis laugh at the Pakistani 'referendums' that 'elect' army presidents..

There is helplessness in these lands.. but not slumber.. quite unlike the American general population who still think Michael' Moore who conveniently skips ANY mention of a neo-con lobby driving the wars is a poster child for free speech.. or Kerry is demonstrative of our Democracy.

16

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by irem: *
Ohioguy, why doesnt the US mind its own business?

And why should we have free and fair elections or democracy? Is it any of the US's business whether we all have democracy or fight amonst each other and die? We're free to do what we want.

I'm a Pakistani and I don't WANT free and fair elections in Pakistan. Why should the US come and say they want democracy in Pakistan?

China is a communist country. Its doing fine too.

Why should the US decide whats good for others. You dont even understand the way our political system works and what works best for our society but you're there to impose on us. Why?

Live and LET LIVE. Everyone should mind their own business.
[/QUOTE]

What I find so disjointed about this Irem is that you wouldn't be Pakistani and there wouldn't be a Pakistan if other countries did not meddle around with the world between 1920 and 1947. If people didn't vote in free and fair elections 60 years ago to be a part of Pakistan you wouldn't be able to oppose free and fair elections in Pakistan today. If you were alive at all, you'd probably be an Indian begging for free and fair elections in India.

So what you are really saying is that you oppose the very processes that enabled Pakistan to become an independent country in the first place.

17

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by irem: *
why doesnt the US mind its own business?

[/QUOTE]

Irem this is what the world is asking.

The world is in disaster because of amerikkan interference.

Look at any region of the world and you will see where Amerikkan foriegn policy has played a part, even in sudan which is in the media spotlight the amerikkans have been supplying military weapons more than 20 millions dollars worth to a terrorist organisation called the SPLA which is figthing the sudan government.

18

ak47 i agree. im not saying American intentions r alwayz bad. a lot of the times Americans prolly do want good. but the problem is their approach is not good. they dont understand the local problems and they bring their own solutions and impose them which spoils things.

myvoice the past is the past. lets talk abt the present and the future.

OG

hmmm…i do get what u r saying
this is a vicious cycle that Pakistan is sufferring from…if we have elections tomorrow, the feudals will again come to power…
im not really sure how we can end this tho…except with the help of the army?
maybe we need to nationalise all private lands above certain areas so all big land holders lose their monopoly on the country…

shawaiz

u shud have read my post before saying this :hoonh:
dont make me retype everything now :stuck_out_tongue: i was saying that the feudal system in pak makes it impossible for democracy to be applicable coz the same faces/families keep coming to power again n again