no one is allowed to visit famous graveyard janat ul baqi,sirf log dooor say wapis aajatay hain,baqi places ko b aisay he shirk say bachaya ja sakta hai,but yeh thora difficult hai,hamaray paaas sirf aik he rasta hai,the easy one kay sub khataam kar do na rahy bans na bajay bansari,sub khalas
Who said no one is allowed to visit janat-ul-Baqi? I was just there a month ago and walked all the way to back of janat-ul-baqi.
very true,wat can we do?nothing just debate aur kuch b nahi but b opimistic,one thing i would like to share u all, kay jab saudi arab meh kissi place ko sealed kar diya jata hai,to sub samj jatay hain kay iss place ki kohi significance hai,for example,recently gazwa e ahud kay paas aik cave ko sealed kiya giya,sub ko pata chal giya kay yeh woh place hai jahan hazrat MOHAMMAD SALLAHA O ALAI WASALAM ko sahaba nay zakhmi haalat meh laya tha
Yes, I was really upset at that!!! That cave was where the Prophet pbuh rested for a while, on a rock, and the rock had taken the shape of the back of his head. People were allowed to go and see that rock, but recently, they demolished the whole cave down!
I mean c'mon!!! Thats not always the right solution! You want to feel the connection with your past, not go there to have it all working in your Head!
Proud Pakistani: She is talking about the areas in jannatul baqi where there are important graves of the Sahaba Karam r.a. and the family of the Prophet pbuh, M.A.B.P.W.T. The access to those graves are closed, and you have to stand behind a barrier, they're near the entrance, im sure you saw them.
Re: saudi kings r destroy islamic history
^True. Historical places should be preserved. They're a part of the glorious history of Islam.
Re: saudi kings r destroy islamic history
Peace to bros Crescent_ and Teggy
As I said earlier there are many places still preserved and there is a major component of Hajj and Umrah trips which constitute Ziyarah. (Site Visits). These are promoted and there are places still around for this. Also, many artifacts are still preserved but under lock and key.
Note: A masjid will not be torn down but the bricks and mortar may be made new. Homes and houses do not have any Islamic significance. In those days the geometry of the towns were different to what they need to be today especially for safety reasons.
I understand that for nostalgia and history museum type sites are 'good' for people's feelings. But we should be able to believe in Islam for it's teachings rather than the places.
I favour tearing down old unsafe buildings to facilitate hajjis than spending money and inconvenience to preserve those sites. Saudis have to handle millions of people day in and day out, please I do not admire many things done by the government, but they do have a lot to contend with. Comparing the high rise hotels and business establishments with the tearing down of old sites is not a fair comparison.
I also think this is not a Shia-Sunni issue that people ould like us to believe. If it is then the Shia really need to provide evidence that keeping the homes and relics of yore IS a part of Islamic requirement.
Re: saudi kings r destroy islamic history
Who made the saudis the police of the islamic world!!!! Indeed the wahabi fitna is destroying Islams cultural richness!
If he or she goes and prays at someones grave that is their business. It is Allahs deen and will take care of it!
Comparing the high rise hotels and business establishments with the tearing down of old sites is not a fair comparison.
You're right.
A more apt comparison would be the fact that while the Saudis seem to have no problem tearing down Islamic historical sites (which 1400 years of previous rulers deemed fit to preserve), they have ensured that Diraiyah, the village of their bedouin ancestors, has been preserved and painstakingly restored to its original state.
By some studies, 95% of the 1000+ year old buildings in Mecca have been demolished over the past 20 years. Public toilets have been constructed over the former home of Seyyida Khadija. Parts of Safa and Marwah were torn down in the 80's to make way for the expansion of King Khalid's palace. But God forbid that anything happen to the ancestral mud huts of the al-Saud family!
Re: saudi kings r destroy islamic history
^thats really terrible [if its true] ...it seems like saudis are the reincarnation of the kuffar of Makkah, somehow erasing the memory of the Prophet from Makkah/Medina.
Re: saudi kings r destroy islamic history
Not to mention, The mountain which houses the palace, was the first mountain to be placed on earth, and was the same mountain Ibrahim a.s. stood upon, the same mountain the Prophet pbuh stood on and gave the call to Islam for the VERY first time (the story about "if i told you there was an army behind this mountain would you believe me?" that one).
That mountain was demolished, to be able to fit the mansion of Al-Saud...
That really sucks.
Re: saudi kings r destroy islamic history
What purpose do historical artifacts serve given Islam is against any form of idolatory?
I mean, people are so double minded. If it s an artifact connected with a good man, they say let us preserve it in memory of the good man.. If it is a artifact of a bad man, they say let us preserve it as a warning for future generations.
Future generations happily mix the two up and end up trusting the bad and hating the good sometimes.
Not to mention, The mountain which houses the palace, was the first mountain to be placed on earth, and was the same mountain Ibrahim a.s. stood upon, the same mountain the Prophet pbuh stood on and gave the call to Islam for the VERY first time (the story about "if i told you there was an army behind this mountain would you believe me?" that one).
That mountain was demolished, to be able to fit the mansion of Al-Saud...
That really sucks.
Peace bro
This I must agree with whole heartedly and have said so from childhood.
Re: saudi kings r destroy islamic history
saudi men in leadership are like crumb cake. they have no integrity what so ever. all they know is sit pretty and make all these idiotic hurting decisions that destroy the trust of their nation in them, while they destroy national heritage and historic infrastructure.
Peace janab-e-ali
While what you say is an alarming shame I detect a tone of sarcasm in your post and must retort that your comparison is still not adequate. Tearing down “Islamic historical sites” you need to substantiate that claim. They were houses and homes of the salaf. They have new ones in Jannah they will not miss them here on Earth!
Please look at this graph:
You will see that population in the world has remained below 1 billion up until the latter few centuries of the previous millenium. Logic will tell us that due to technology constraints and lower population the amount of people visiting Makkah historically has been considerably less than in the past 50 years. Logically something needed to be done the facilitate things for hajjis, again I disagree with some aspects such as the high rise hotels with western influenced business establishments, but you need to concede that for some things there is no other choice. This could be the reason why for such a long time the “historical sites” have been kept for so long until recently, it may have nothing whatsoever to do with your allegation against the religious disposition of the Saudi government.
Re: saudi kings r destroy islamic history
^ I see ur point bro psyah but if they had been only demolishing the sites and living austere lives like the companions / successors then u can make the argument that historical sites are irrelevent.....but saudis are replacing these sites with modern symbols of capitalism which are the present day idols ....
furthermore these sites are a heritage of all muslims , saudis who were propped up by the brits for rebelling against the caliphate cannot decide for all ummah they are not guardians of the faith but the jailers
^ I see ur point bro psyah but if they had been only demolishing the sites and living austere lives like the companions / successors then u can make the argument that historical sites are irrelevent.....but saudis are replacing these sites with modern symbols of capitalism which are the present day idols .... furthermore these sites are a heritage of all muslims , saudis who were propped up by the brits for rebelling against the caliphate cannot decide for all ummah they are not guardians of the faith but the jailers
Peace Das Reich
Please re-read what I have written. We are in agreement. We are not talking about them living austere lives or not, we are talking about the motives of them removing 'historical sites'. I said we cannot pass judgement on them simply because we disagree with their Islamic understanding. We do not KNOW the motives to be able to pass judgement on them. As for the lifestyle they tote we can only blame the officials in that for most people are still humble and live quite simply in Saudi. It is just the controlling elite who live as that described by you above.
Regarding your annoyance with the Saudi Royals please be sure to make that distinction from the other Saudis; most Muslims will not differ from your sentiments, but some things they have done have been better for Islam, other things many many other things perhaps not. The fact that they are there and we are here speaks volumes about what we have allowed to take place some time ago in history. They are one historical symbol that YOU wish was not present at least.
Islamica Magazine: The Destruction of Holy Sites in Mecca and Medina
Some excerpts:
“The Mashrubat Umm Ibrahim—which was built to mark the location of the house where the Prophet’s son, Ibrahim, was born to Mariah, his Egyptian wife—also contained the grave of Hamida al-Barbariyya, the mother of Imam Musa al-Kazim. These sites were destroyed over the past few years.”
“In 1998 the grave of Amina bint Wahb, the Prophet’s mother, was bulldozed in Abwa and gasoline was poured on it. Even though thousands of petitions throughout the Muslim world were sent to Saudi Arabia, nothing stopped this action.”
“The authorities plan to demolish the house of Mawlid, where the Prophet was born. About 60 years ago, this house, which used to have a dome over it, was turned into a cattle market. Some people then worked together to transform it into a library, which it is today. It is lined with shelves of books about Mecca, most of them written by Meccans. But the library is under threat again because of the new Jabal ‘Umar project, one of the largest real estate development projects near the Grand Mosque. The birthplace of the Prophet is to make way for a car park and hotels.”
“In Medina, of the seven mosques at the site of the Battle of the Trench (Jabal al-Khandaq), where Sura al-Ahzab was revealed, only two remain. The others have been demolished and a Saudi bank’s cashpoint machine has been built in the area. The remaining mosques will be demolished as soon as the new mosque being constructed is ready. One of the mosques slated for destruction is Masjid Fath, the mosque and rock of victory, where the Prophet stood during the battle of the trench praying for victory. On the rock is where he received God’s promises of victory and of the conquest of Mecca.”
“The House of Sayyida Khadija was located just outside Safa and Marwa and which now falls under the paved area. Above it, the Wahhabi hardliners have built public toilets.”
Other cities in the world receive huge numbers of tourists…Paris comes to mind. Yet somehow, the French have managed to painstakingly preserve the historical integrity of the city at all costs, while still managing a successful tourism infrastructure. If the Saudis had any desire to preserve these landmarks, they could do it. The problem is that their religious beliefs encourage them to tear them down. When the Saudis first attacked Mecca, they actually tried to tear down the Prophet Muhammad’s mausoleum itself…it was only when every man who mounted the dome slipped and fell to his death that they decided to leave it alone.
I would argue that the vast majority of hajis coming to Mecca are poor Muslims who saved their entire lives just to make the trip. These people are not going to be spending $550/night so they can stay at a luxurious 5 star hotel with panoramic views of the haram sharif…nor will they be shopping at the Armani store in one of these fancy new malls. These elaborate, multi-million dollar developments aren’t even being done to better accommodate the 90% of hajis coming from the third world.
Re: saudi kings r destroy islamic history
arabs,arabs,arabs
Peace janab-e-ali
I did not ask you to substantiate the claim that sites were being torn down. I asked you to substantiate whether the sites being torn down are Islamic. What you have given is an article about historical sites being torn down and the writers opinion is that they are ALL Islamic. He gave no preference to sites being replaced with newer structures and he has not substantiated why ‘domes’ are to be considered Islamic.
And please understand the article is written with vehement imbalance and cannot be used as a source for reasonable discussion. None of the claims are supported and all of them are being used to isolate one Islamic community, - i.e. Ahl-e-hadith (by the name they wish to be called), I am not one of them, but we should have the decency to be nice despite our differences. I hae said in every post that I do not agree with every decision, but not every decision has been taken by them (i.e. Saudi government) in order to ransack Islam. Rather their intentions could well be ‘good’ i.e. to prevent shirk which was happening. Their school is biased towards removing shirk over saving heritage, so we need to understand this position. We don’t have to agree with it. Your position is that their action can only be evil, but this is wrong. You need to ask them why and hear their answers before passing judgement.
The article does not provide their argument.
It is funny that you have given Paris as an example for your support of saving buildings, but I must again disagree that Paris is by far a reasonable comparison. Just do the research and see the numbers in Paris at any one time and also the logistical positioning of the sites that are historical.
If your approach was not so harsh and quick to condemn then perhaps I would have agreed with you more but in order to help balance things I have been forced by you to take a position that seems to be in the favour of the Saudi government. In actual fact people will differ over things like this, remember we are told in Islam this world will remain here we take with us our deed in the hereafter, please be as negligent of this dunya as the early Muslims were. They didn’t care for their homes to be preserved and there really is no reason to other than nostalgia and history. Belief comes without these things. And these things can provide fitna for some ignorant people to commit shirk. So go easy on the people who have been given dominion over the holy land. I do not believe any other community could have done a better job than them as we stand today.
I do not believe any other community could have done a better job than them as we stand today.
After the oil runs out, this community will be back to riding camels and chopping each other's heads off.
After the oil runs out, this community will be back to riding camels and chopping each other's heads off.
JazakAllah khair for your opinion, but it has no value in the current discussion, it seems to be a prophetic statement ... do you know the future Moonshiner?
JazakAllah khair for your opinion, but it has no value in the current discussion, it seems to be a prophetic statement ... do you know the future Moonshiner?
You don't have to be prophet to know that oil will run out. I doubt the Saudis have a backup plan, and their brutal and oppressive regime will be overthrown.