Re: Sarkozy says burqas are 'not welcome' in France
Why is this such a big deal ?
France is not a Muslim country and they have every right to make a law thats compatible with their culture. If you don't like that move to a country where you can wear a burqa. There is no dearth of countries/regions where you will be forced to wear burqa at gunpoint.
Its funny to ban burqa. Is should be the choice of woman what to wear or what not to wear. such kind of restrictions should only be on the minimum clothing to set the standard of modesty, not on burkha or hijab.
I believe the concern is that it is not truly the choice of women to wear the Burqa. Sarkozy stated he likens it to a prison. Many see it as a tool of oppression that strips women of some of their freedom protected by France.
Actions should be judged by their intentions and contexts. They banned Sikh turbans, Jewish skullcaps Muslim scarves and christian crosses in schools to ensure residents of France maintain their secular identity.
This recent suggestion does not claim to have do anything to do with religion. Its about the working for the dignity of women. A very valid criticism would be, does the burqa suppress the dignity of a woman more than prostitution, as prostitution is not illegal in France.
at any rate, there should be some therapy for burqa users, trained counselors should help women make the choice to shed the burqa. A woman who has been behind the veil all her life could experience psychological trauma and/or stress when stepping out. The counselors could ease her into it and help her make the choice.
blah blah blah..
....
Now back to Iran, the revolution came on the of certain bloody ideology NOT ON THE NAME OF ISLAM.
lol blah blah is exactly what I hear when you type something...lol and the topic is not even Iran...its french laws against Burka.
Muslims in non-Muslims countries have more freedoms than in their own countries. Maybe that is the reason why bruka lovers want to stay in France? If not, as I suggested earlier, move to a place that is more burka friendly. That is why, I totally support France. They have right to make laws that are compatible with their values, and they have every right to keep tribals and their backward cultures out.
As for Universal Ceclaration of Human Rights- let me know when Christians can build their churches in Saudia or Jews/Hindus can build temples KSA thn we'll talk about Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
what do you say about this declaration, fayax?
BTW i totally agree with u.
[quote="Shamraz_Khan, post:3, topic:203001"]
Muslims in non-Muslims countries have more freedoms than in their own countries. Maybe that is the reason why bruka lovers want to stay in France? If not, as I suggested earlier, move to a place that is more burka friendly. That is why, I totally support France. They have right to make laws that are compatible with their values, and they have every right to keep tribals and their backward cultures out.
As for Universal Ceclaration of Human Rights- let me know when Christians can build their churches in Saudia or Jews/Hindus can build temples KSA thn we'll talk about Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
what do you say about this declaration, fayax?
BTW i totally agree with u.
[/QUOTE]
My declaration? Its not my declaration. My opinions are fact based from Islam and from Islamic History.The after that I add a line or two explaining it based on my opinion from what I understand it to be. I welcome to be proven wrong and will gladly accept it.
Muslims in non-Muslims countries have more freedoms than in their own countries. Maybe that is the reason why bruka lovers want to stay in France? If not, as I suggested earlier, move to a place that is more burka friendly. That is why, I totally support France. They have right to make laws that are compatible with their values, and they have every right to keep tribals and their backward cultures out.
Freedom goes both ways. But one has to realize that IF I choose not to take advantage of the feedoms provided, I shouldnt have to accept them. On the flip side a girl on beach should not be forced to wear a bikini similarly a girl on the street should not be forced to dress down even if it is allowed.
Suppression of a culture and calling it backwards because their standards of modesty seem extreme to you, is a superiority complex that the enforcer or an opinionated person has. Bordering genocidal attitudes of empirical rule of the past and to some extent present. Remeber the british used to refer to themselves as the "civilized" compared to the Indians. And they left their indelible mark on some desis who call their own roots 'backward'.
As for Universal Ceclaration of Human Rights- let me know when Christians can build their churches in Saudia or Jews/Hindus can build temples KSA thn we'll talk about Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
KSA is the country that holds the Kaaba and Medinah - but KSA is one governmental unit. Vatican happens to be smaller than the area of Haram Shareef (or close to it in area) and is considered a sovereign identity.
A church or any other religion's physical presence is allowed in most muslims contries but not in KSA.** Do you see a mosque in the Vatican?** Let me answer my rehotrical question myself. NOPE. And they are not going to let that happen either.
Why allow a proselytizing entity in the center of Islam (KSA) when the punishment of a murtad is death.
Why is this such a big deal ?
France is not a Muslim country and they have every right to make a law thats compatible with their culture. If you don't like that move to a country where you can wear a burqa. There is no dearth of countries/regions where you will be forced to wear burqa at gunpoint.
NO NO NO.
What kind of f*cked up government regulates clothing? stfu freedom hating Indian.
Why allow a proselytizing entity in the center of Islam (KSA) when the punishment of a murtad is death.
hahaha What a f*cked up country that is.
If I ever go to Saudi Arabia ill be sure to sh*t on the street.
NO NO NO.
What kind of f*cked up government regulates clothing? stfu freedom hating Indian.
Its not the question of regulating clothing. Its a bigger question about an entity/organization/country's right to make laws & rules that apply to every one who wants to live/study/work there.
This issue is no different than the Muslim guy who went to court because his Catholic school had a rule saying students should be clean shaven and he wanted to keep a beard.
Or the guy in US (Minnesota) who wanted to a break from work ( Fortune 500 Corporation) 5 times a day because he wanted to pray.
hahaha What a f****** up country that is.
If I ever go to Saudi Arabia ill be sure to sh*t on the street.
The punishment for treason is death in every country every nation...
Slickstar...you are acting very ignorant now.
Islam is considered as one entitiy hence leaving the folds of Islam is considered treason.
Its not the question of regulating clothing. Its a bigger question about an entity/organization/country's right to make laws & rules that apply to every one who wants to live/study/work there.
What? Did I just read that correctly? The “French” are not the government; the government is not “French.” The government does not in any accurate sense
“represent” the majority of the people, but *even *if it did, even if 95% of the people decided to coerce 5% of the population, this will still be a form of social manipulation and oppression of a minority.
Crime is crime, aggression against rights is aggression, no matter how many citizens agree to the oppression. There is nothing sacrosanct about the majority; the lynch mob, too, is the majority in its own domain.
This issue is no different than the Muslim guy who went to court because his Catholic school had a rule saying students should be clean shaven and he wanted to keep a beard.
excuse me? The issue is no different? What? READ PROPERTY RIGHTS.
Or the guy in US (Minnesota) who wanted to a break from work ( Fortune 500 Corporation) 5 times a day because he wanted to pray.
If you have the intellectual capacity you would understand why both situations are different to the burqa situation.
The punishment for treason is death in every country every nation...
Slickstar...you are acting very ignorant now.
Islam is considered as one entitiy hence leaving the folds of Islam is considered treason.
*"Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects Taghut (evil) and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trust worthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things. " (Qur'an 2:256)]
*
YOu are acting very ignorant purposely. Religion being equated to treason? Religion is a state of mind. Today I could be believing in Muhammad and Allah tomorrow my mind may sway towards the Hindu cow. After a few months I may believe in Moses and come back to Muhammad. To equate leaving Islam to treason is laughable.
If Islam is truly one entity (economic, political, social etc) we can unanimously say that 99.9% of Muslims have already caused treason. Why don't you advocate the executions for the Saudi kings? yourself? your father? me?
Please try harder.
What? Did I just read that correctly? The “French” are not the government; the government is not “French.” The government does not in any accurate sense “represent” the majority of the people, but *even *if it did, even if 95% of the people decided to coerce 5% of the population, this will still be a form of social manipulation and oppression of a minority.
Learn to read & comprehend before you respond.
I have not mentioned "French", "people" or "individuals" anywhere. I am talking about an entity/organization/country's rights.
A lot of restaurants restrict patrons from coming in wearing shorts. Are you going to accuse them of minority opression too ?
Re: Sarkozy says burqas are 'not welcome' in France
I was wondering if wearing minis, transparent and low cuts constitute submission to the desire of the male species. Perhaps sarkozy should consider banning them too? or did that fact not manage to cross his pea sized brain?
I am going to make this very simple for you because I actually feel that you are incapable to derive the most simple notions of individual and property rights.
The example you have given shows where individual rights to be restricted in the case of the restaurant. The rights of the individual are still absolute; but there are property rights. The fellow who walks in with shorts in a restaurant is not a criminal, but is denied entry because he has violated the tenants of entry. He has clearly and obviously violated the property rights of another person.
But the issue of the burqa is totally different. The french government wants to restrict individuals their right to choose what they want to wear. It doesn't matter what Sarkozi thinks, or my neighbor or even you. It matters what the individual thinks. She should have the absolute right to decide what she wants to wear down the street. Those who believe in freedom appose government invasion on our rights. Its the woman's natural right to control her body free of coercive interference.
Its very simple, If you believe in freedom you are against this law. Ill leave you with my signature, a quote from William Allen white. Liberty is the only thing you cannot have unless you are willing to give it to others.
So you would be happier if France denied entry to women wearing burqa ??
I believe the individual always has freedom - freedom of choice !! You don’t like the law of the land, then move to a country that is more conducive to your religious beliefs 
I do not agree with the right of religious fundamentalists to hold institutions to ransom.
P.S. On a side note, why do Muslims always expect to be treated differently and be provided freedom to practice their religious customs and beliefs irrespective of how weird they might seem to an outsider, but do not accord the same freedom to non-Muslims in Muslim countries ??
P.S. On a side note, why do Muslims always expect to be treated differently and be provided freedom to practice their religious customs and beliefs irrespective of how weird they might seem to an outsider, but do not accord the same freedom to non-Muslims in Muslim countries ??
They are hypocrites just like you.
YOu are acting very ignorant purposely. Religion being equated to treason? Religion is a state of mind. Today I could be believing in Muhammad and Allah tomorrow my mind may sway towards the Hindu cow. After a few months I may believe in Moses and come back to Muhammad. To equate leaving Islam to treason is laughable.
If Islam is truly one entity (economic, political, social etc) we can unanimously say that 99.9% of Muslims have already caused treason. Why don't you advocate the executions for the Saudi kings? yourself? your father? me?
The problem with you guys is that you speak out of ignorance.
The penalty for a murtad is that he is to be killed, period! This is a Shariah law, and if you were sincere to learn about it, you'd open the books and study. At the moment you may think its laughable and laugh all you like....but when the blade comes down, you wont be laughing.
99.9% of muslims have commited treason? Where did you get that figure from?
And what makes you think an average muslim's committed treason? And even if he has, we have no right to kill him because we're not responsible for him.
Its not the question of regulating clothing. Its a bigger question about an entity/organization/country's right to make laws & rules that apply to every one who wants to live/study/work there.
This issue is no different than the Muslim guy who went to court because his Catholic school had a rule saying students should be clean shaven and he wanted to keep a beard.
Or the guy in US (Minnesota) who wanted to a break from work ( Fortune 500 Corporation) 5 times a day because he wanted to pray.
There's a difference between the rights of private organizations and national governments.
You want to ban hejab in your Catholic school, or enforce it in your Islamic school...go right ahead, that's your right as a private organization. Students who aren't willing to comply with the dress code are more than welcome to go to a public school. It's an entirely different situation when the government outright bans (or mandates) certain forms of dress.
As for the people pointing to Iran and Saudi Arabia's dress codes as justification...those countries are theocracies, and have no delusions of being liberal, secular societies. They are also notorious for their repressive laws and poor human rights records. If that is the model to which France and Western Europe now aspire, then that's just pathetic.
The problem with you guys is that you speak out of ignorance.
The penalty for a murtad is that he is to be killed, period! This is a Shariah law, and if you were sincere to learn about it, you'd open the books and study. At the moment you may think its laughable and laugh all you like....but when the blade comes down, you wont be laughing.
99.9% of muslims have commited treason? Where did you get that figure from?
And what makes you think an average muslim's committed treason? And even if he has, we have no right to kill him because we're not responsible for him.
ok whatever.