Same-sex Marriage

[queer]

Re: Same-sex Marriage

@TLK

Does that mean a homosexual man is attracted to another man because nature made him that way? If that is the case, then is he really committing a sin?

do you think then the holy books would denounce this behavior like that? who would you believe - god’s word or some fake scientists?

[X2]

Re: Same-sex Marriage

@diwana

In the context of the thread topic:

**Homosexuality is not considered acceptable by all three major religions practiced in West.
**.

Neither is premarital sex…

You can either turn the west into theocracies run by evangelical types…so they enforce all laws, which will be a nightmare. They may just end with marriage being between a man and a woman in the front of lord/Jesus. So if you don’t consider Jesus god then your marriage is not holy matrimony. Anyways that last bit is just speculation, but religious doctrine enforced upon others of that faith or another that do not follow that faith is problematic.

As it is now, if the religious doctrine is not going to be applied … then being selective about it reeks of hypocrisy.

I mean we can dive into Leviticus if you so choose, and look at the rulings beyond homosexuality.
Let people accept all those and be prepared to face the religion based punishments and directives that impact themselves first before going to enforce one ruling on others under the guise of religion.

[Cheegum]

Re: Same-sex Marriage

@TLK

Ok let me ask a different question. If a man has a
mental disorder that influenced him to commit suicide, is he a sinner
according to Islam?

It may boil down to intent.

Person A is mentally retarded which is his mental disorder. His cognitive ability is that of a 2 day old. He walks/rolls off a bridge and dies. He did not intend to die.

Person C- his brain develops like any normal person. His mental disorder, whatever it may be, influences him to commit suicide. He walks off a bridge fully aware that it will kill him.

[Cheegum]

Re: Same-sex Marriage

[please delete]

[TLK]

[quote=“Cheegum:9879222”]

@""TLK""

It may boil down to intent.

Person A is mentally retarded which is his mental disorder. His cognitive ability is that of a 2 day old. He walks/rolls off a bridge and dies. He did not intend to die.

Person C- his brain develops like any normal person. His mental disorder, whatever it may be, influences him to commit suicide. He walks off a bridge fully aware that it will kill him.

Cheegum, you ignored Person B. Was that intentional or involuntary?

[Krypton]

Re: Same-sex Marriage

itni technicalities

@Cheegum

It may boil down to intent.

Person A is mentally retarded which is his mental disorder. His cognitive ability is that of a 2 day old. He walks/rolls off a bridge and dies. He did not intend to die.

Person C- his brain develops like any normal person. His mental disorder, whatever it may be, influences him to commit suicide. He walks off a bridge fully aware that it will kill him.

[TLK]

@queer:9879209

@""TLK""

Does that mean a homosexual man is attracted to another man because nature made him that way? If that is the case, then is he really committing a sin?

do you think then the holy books would denounce this behavior like that? who would you believe - god’s word or some fake scientists?

It hasn’t been proven by science beyond the shadow of doubt that homosexuality is not a choice but a built in “abnormality” (as in against the norm, not as in retardation). Till then, we have to treat it as a choice, no?

[Shak]

Re: Same-sex Marriage

@Cheegum

It may boil down to intent.

Person A is mentally retarded which is his mental disorder. His cognitive ability is that of a 2 day old. He walks/rolls off a bridge and dies. He did not intend to die.

Person C- his brain develops like any normal person. His mental disorder, whatever it may be, influences him to commit suicide. He walks off a bridge fully aware that it will kill him.

Person B ko aap kha hee gai ho

[Cheegum]

Re: Same-sex Marriage

@TLK

Cheegum, you ignored Person B. Was that intentional or involuntary?

@Shak09

Person B ko aap kha hee gai ho

Jee that was intentional Due to my lack of knowledge of mental disorders I left room for someone more knowledgeable than me to fill in Person B, who isn’t at either edge of the spectrum like Persons A or C but somewhere inbetween

[diwana]

Re: Same-sex Marriage

@Deeba1234

Do you agree with civil partnerships?

I don’t believe religion condones it but at the same time from an ethical standpoint I don’t feel comfortable not ‘allowing’ them to be together..

Talking of ‘mental illness’ psychiatry is not an exact science.. As someone who comes from a family of psychiatrists I know a lot of things which were considered perfectly fine or acceptable twenty or thirty years ago are no longer acceptable now as psychiatry has changed and evolved, partly down to science + research and partly down to societal influences..

In Nazi Germany and South Africa under apartheid weren’t people in interracial relationships considered ‘abnormal’ as well?

Your example of inter-racial marriage does not apply at all. Marriage is between a man and a woman regardless of any race.

Interracial relationship could have been considered abnormal in the past but the reason was completely different.

**

Lets not get in to the supporting the homosexual behavior so much that the obvious wrong is overlooked.

Man for man and woman for woman. Absolutely wrong physically, biologically/medically and socially.**

[queer]

Re: Same-sex Marriage

there is more wrong physically, biologically etc with a man eating a samosa fried in dalda than homosexuality. sorry pal.

[diwana]

Re: Same-sex Marriage

@X2

Neither is premarital sex…

You can either turn the west into theocracies run by evangelical types…so they enforce all laws, which will be a nightmare. They may just end with marriage being between a man and a woman in the front of lord/Jesus. So if you don’t consider Jesus god then your marriage is not holy matrimony. Anyways that last bit is just speculation, but religious doctrine enforced upon others of that faith or another that do not follow that faith is problematic.

As it is now, if the religious doctrine is not going to be applied … then being selective about it reeks of hypocrisy.

I mean we can dive into Leviticus if you so choose, and look at the rulings beyond homosexuality.
Let people accept all those and be prepared to face the religion based punishments and directives that impact themselves first before going to enforce one ruling on others under the guise of religion.

I did not mention about all three religions not condoning homosexuality to have a discussion along this line.

Neither I made any suggestion that west be turned into theocracies. Very different discussion altogether.

I mentioned that because OP had already given indication that he is looking for discussion about homosexuality outside religions. And I see at least three religions not condoning the homosexuality then I have no qualm about it.

Lets discuss outside religion since irreligious people love t bash religions anyways, and they have no credibility.

[diwana]

Re: Same-sex Marriage

@queer

there is more wrong physically, biologically etc with a man eating a samosa fried in dalda than homosexuality. sorry pal.

We should pass the laws against this man then.

Tiktiki and 100 lashes?

Added:

There is nothing physically, biologically or socially wrong with the man who is active, if eating fried samosa.

You need to bring a better example like those with a fetish behavior, necrophiliacs, zoophiliacs, and pedophiles.

[llxxll]

Re: Same-sex Marriage

@chacha_Ghalib

Same-sex marriage is becoming acceptable and more common in many countries. According to Wikipedia, 15 countries and several provinces/states in multiple countries recognize same-sex marriage. The trend is surely to continue.

What are your views on the legalization of same-sex marriage? The religious stance on this issue is quite clear but how do you view it from a legal and ethical point of view? Should they be denied certain tax benefits because of how they choose to live their life? Should states have the right to discriminate against citizens based on their sexual choices?

if same-sex marriages were not legalized would it stop people from engaging in homosexual relationships? …NO!

considering that whomsoever fancies being in a homosexual relationship will be in one irrespective of whether or not same sex marriages were legalized…I don’t see a point in them being denied tax benefits and I definitely do not condone discrimination against citizens based on their sexual orientation-you turn a blind eye to discrimination and let it happen in one instance and you create an opening for their to be discrimination based on other things as well.

[X2]

Re: Same-sex Marriage

@diwana

I did not mention about all three religions not condoning homosexuality to have a discussion along this line.

Neither I made any suggestion that west be turned into theocracies. Very different discussion altogether.

I mentioned that because OP had already given indication that he is looking for discussion about homosexuality outside religions. And I see at least three religions not condoning the homosexuality then I have no qualm about it.

Lets discuss outside religion since irreligious people love t bash religions anyways, and they have no credibility.

I don’t know why religion was mentioned then. Sure- if you want to discuss outside of religion, because as I said if religion is going to be a basis then people asking for this must then ask for other religious restrictions and punishments too. This is not an irreligious person bashing religion, but someone merely suggesting that those … Especially in the west, that are gung-ho against gay rights based on Christianity then they really ought to abide by all the stuff that impacts them first. But we are discussing outside of religion so that’s good, no need for me to start quoting Leviticus

If we are discussing homosexuality outside of religion then what basis can one use to give a gay couple less rights than a heterosexual couple. A discussion on what is natural? Because by that token marriage itself may not be very natural to begin with.

[diwana]

Re: Same-sex Marriage

@X2

I don’t know why religion was mentioned then. Sure- if you want to discuss outside of religion, because as I said if religion is going to be a basis then people asking for this must then ask for other religious restrictions and punishments too. This is not an irreligious person bashing religion, but someone merely suggesting that those … Especially in the west, that are gung-ho against gay rights based on Christianity then they really ought to abide by all the stuff that impacts them first. But we are discussing outside of religion so that’s good, no need for me to start quoting Leviticus

If we are discussing homosexuality outside of religion then what basis can one use to give a gay couple less rights than a heterosexual couple. A discussion on what is natural? Because by that token marriage itself may not be very natural to begin with.

I already mentioned the religion was mentioned simply to agree with OP that religious stance on it is quite clear. And I agreed with that.

We need to separate sanctions, and especially punishments based on religion(s), since it is up to society (ies) to decide in their jurisdictions how a particular religion is to be implemented.

In regards to “gay couples” one has to define what it means and how it should be seen as legitimate as marriage between two heterosexuals individuals.

I brought the idea of DSM critria and must continue until few points are cleared. APA tried to exclude homosexuality from their definition of mental illness, they as early as in 1973 despite making this decision did not say homosexuality somehow should be automatically considered ‘normal’.

The reasons were political. with the background of homosexual open campaign and the Stonewall riot.

The reason by APA was made up…citing lack of apprehension/anxiety etc. A loose criteria.

Anyhow, APA does not control the world’s opinion and only reason it was mentioned that for those who believe anything defined by some scientists association(s) should still have their minds open to obviously contradictory indicators.

[X2]

Okay … So not using religion as a basis… Got it

Not using APA ( or bajia, baji, and Apia) opinion as a basis.. Got it

So then what? if we look at people, looks like majority are in favour and it is only getting more support with each year.

PS: religious stance may be clear as you say, I simply added that those using that as a basis are hypocrites and don’t want to legislate other religious rulings as well.

[S_and_S]

Same-sex Marriage

Agreed. So what basis are we on now?