One question... are Wahabies and Salafies the same thing? I have been led to believe that. Are they?
As salam o Aleikum,
I do not associate myself with any sect, therefore I am presenting only my understanding of the Qur'an.
As for calling anyone except Allah for help, it is against Qur'anic teachings. If there is a hadith that contradicts Qur'an, obviously that hadith should be adjusted accordingly because ahadith were narrated one person to another and then scribed by human beings too. Words could have been changed, information lost or any such thing can happen with Hadith. On the other hand, Qur'an is the eternal Word of God guaranteed to stay intact till the end of time.
When we offer namaz, five times a day we say to Allah,
"Thee alone we worship and thee alone we pray for help." [Al-Fatiha 1:4]
From this verse, it is apparent that only Allah is the one who should be asked for help, not even Muhammad(sm). There are other references in Qur'an too and if anyone is interested, I would find out and post them here.
Regards,
Omer
AOA,
BY reading all discussion in this topic , i came to know that Lashar a abbas is going fine , i m sorry to say Salman KHAN IS UNABLE TO PROVE ANYTHING , I SUGGEST YOU SHOULD READ AND STUDY QURAN CAREFULLY"
wa salam
I tend to disagree with that.
If I ask you for help "O brother Omar Help Me." and in my heart I know that you are capable of NOTHING without Allah's help, then that does not make me a KAFIR.
Again it's just a matter of intention. If I think brother Omar is God when I ask him for help (which is entirely STUPID) then I committed SHIRK. But that is not true.
Simple as that. All I say is that if you don't wanna do it(use tawassal), Don't do it. But those who do choose to do it with clean hearts then you have no right, IMO to declare them Non-Muslims or anything.
Actually according to my beliefs, you don't even have the right to declare anyone who says "La-illaha-illallah , Mohammad-ur-rasoolullah" non Muslims. If you do then you would be digressing from the Sunnah of the Prophet which people so proudly claim that they don't.
Whatever has been said by laskhar up there was not right at all.
i want this thread locked right now. And take my word on it lashkar, Inshallah I'll be back with the description of why and who ppl call Wahhabi'z in a 'new' thread.
Admins LOCK it for GOd sake. or better yet DELETE it. now they started a new fifth school of thought in ISlam. Whoever reads this thread will sure be misguided. Toba !!
O my God
""""what is going on. People are saying Prophet Mohammed is Alive when Abu Bakr (may Allah be pleased with him) said it very clear in his sermon after Prophet pbuh passed away from this world.
Admin/Mod please LOCK this post or DELETE it """""
I DONT KNOW WHAT IS PROBLEM WITH YOU salman khan when you did not have argument then you run away , hahahaahahaha
you tell me is this universe created for you??????
ok if human being were everything then why ALLHA CREATED PROPHET?????
GO AND STUDY RELIGION CAREFULLY:
"NEEM HAKEEM KHATAR JANN........... NEMM MULLA KHUTRA IMAN"""
GOD HELP YOU TO TURN ON RIGHT PATH (AMEN)
"NEEM HAKEEM KHATAR JANN........... NEEM MULLA KHUTRA IMAN"
Very well and hillariously summed up.
ANyways...
Brother SalmanKhana, why are you scared that people are going to get misguided? If that were the case then no intellectual debates will never take place in the Muslim world and the Muslims in backward places like Peshawar in Pakistan will continue to be led by illiterate Mullahs with no will to explore and understand the religion of Islam, as is the case with most Muslims.
Anyways, can you bring some info on Salafies or not?
Wassalam
*Your brother in faith *
Allah like people who have patience
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif
. patience bro , have patience.
Go and read my new thread . I have put there two fatwahs’. and one of them is by Shaikh Ibn Baz. One of the biggest scholar of Saudi Arabia
Thanks brother SalmanKhana, very informative post indeed. Now at least I know where the name wahabi comes from.
What does Salaf mean?
And yet still, what is the belief about treatment of women and other sects? or is it a cultural issue with no relation to the salafi religion?
Wassalam
Your brother in faith
Dear SalmanKhana,
My Islam professor used to say that Muslims should stop preaching religion, because they can't even talk amongst themselves, what to tell others about religion. All I would say is that religion is learned through interactive discussion and through understanding other's point of view. If we were all to believe that only we are right, there is no way of finding the Truth. And there is no way of realizing what is right and what is wrong, except to reason objectively.
--
Dear Everyone,
Let us not get personal in religion. If we have to get personal with each other, lets not do so at religion's expense atleast. I think we should all be respectable in discussion and should try to avoid personal messages.
--
Dear Lashkar-e-Abbas,
Nobody is calling anyone non-Muslim. And we have no right to do so. Infact, Muhammad(sm) put down the criterion as Kalima, Namaz and Zakat for defining a Muslim. Anyone who pronounces Kalima, offers Namaz and pays Zakat can never be called a non-Muslim. Same is endorsed in Al-Maidah 5:55.
As far as your point of view is concerned, it is legitimate for you to have a different point of view, and possible for us to differ on interpretations. All I ask is that our primary source should be Qur'an, because thats the only thing which is intact and cannot be changed till the end of time. As for hadith, it was narrated from one person to another and so on, it is possible that words got changed or part of the message was lost. Therefore, if a Hadith differs from Qur'anic understanding, it should be adjusted accordingly. And religion should be researched and reasoned objectively and honestly and if anyone finds argument of a higher merit, they should surrender themselves to the better option. Atleast I am willing to do so because thats the only way to the Truth. Also, we are Muslims because we submit to Allah, and if we do not obey his Word, then essentially we are not trying to submit themselves. They are not Muslims because its the Truth, rather because they were born so.
And if you differ with me on any interpretation, I would still want you to follow your understanding - even though I might not personally approve of it - because I firmly believe that everyone will be judged on their effort to understand religion, and on their practice of the same.
The other verses related to the topic are,
"And the other beings, whom the people invoke instead of Allah, create nothing: nay! They are themselves created. They are dead, not living, and they do not at all know when they shall again be raised to life." [Nahl 16:20-21]
"I (Allah) have not created the jinn and men, except that they should worship Me (Allah)." [Az-Zariyat 51:56]
"And do not invoke besides Allah any being that can neither do you good nor harm: for if you will do so, you shall be one of the workers of iniquity. If Allah afflicts you with a calamity, there is none to remove it but He Himself. Likewise, if He wills to bestow a favor on you, there is none to withhold His bounty." [Yunus 10:107]
"Is not Allah enough for His servant? These people frighten you with others besides Him, whereas there is none to guide him whom Allah lets go astray, and there is none to misguide him whom Allah guides aright. Is not Allah Mighty and Capable of revenge? If you ask them, “Who created the heavens and the earth?”, they will say, “Allah”. Ask them, “When the fact is this, do you think that if Allah Wills harm for me, those whom you invoke instead of Allah, will avert Allah’s harm from me? Or, if Allah wills to show me mercy, will they be able to withhold His Mercy?” Therefore tell them, “Allah is enough for me. In Him trust those who put their trust.”" [Zumur 39:36-38]
"Ask them, “Who is the Lord of the heavens and the earth?” Say, “Allah.” Then say to them, “When this is the fact, have you then made besides Allah such deities your protectors, who can do neither good nor harm, even to themselves?” Say:”Are the blind equal With those who see? Or the depths of darkness Equal with Light?” Or do they assign to Allah Partners who have created (Anything) as He has created, So that the creation seemed To them similar? Say: “Allah is the Creator Of all things: He is The One, the Supreme and Irresistible.”" [Ar-Raad 13:16]
"These people worship beside Allah those which can neither harm nor benefit them, and say, “These are our intercessors with Allah!”. O Prophet, ask them, “Do you wish to inform Allah of a thing which He knows to be neither in the heavens nor in the earth?”. Allah is absolutely free from, and exalted above the “shirk” these people commit." [Yunus 10:18]
"And if My servants ask you, O Prophet, concerning Me, tell them that I am quite near to them. I hear and answer the prayer of the suppliant, when he calls Me." [al-Baqarah 2:186]
Regards,
Omer
if you wanna know about salafis from their own sources then refer to their websites
www.salafipublications.com www.troid.org
[quote]
Originally posted by Lashkar-e-Abbas:
**Thanks brother SalmanKhana, very informative post indeed. Now at least I know where the name wahabi comes from.
What does Salaf mean?
And yet still, what is the belief about treatment of women and other sects? or is it a cultural issue with no relation to the salafi religion?
Wassalam
Your brother in faith**
[/quote]
For the answer of ur first question 'Salaf' refer to the same post of mine about Advise.
I dont know about what treatment you are talking about. Well the answer is simple whatever treatment it is. We follow the Quran and Sunnah Alhumdulillah. So what treatment you find in them you will find in our practices INshallah.
ws'salamz and may this be my last post in this thread.
Mashallah brother Omar.
I am very happy to read your post. I admire your open mindedness.
I myself am a novice on the issue of tawassal, here is something that I gathered from a web site. I still hold that everything in Islam is based on INTENTION.
QUESTION:
One of my friend ask me to ask this question to you brothers:
You know most of the time when Muslims are in trouble or they want to do a
difficult chore they say "Ya Ali Mudad" or "Ya Mohammad". What is the reason or any religious
thing that we don't know. Can you explain in detail any reason about this.
ANSWER:
This is a very important question again dealt with in the recently published
translation of the Contemporary Fatwas of Ayatullah Seestani (May Allah
Protect him and Preserve him).
The propriety of saying "Ya Mohammad or Ya Ali Madad" depends entirely upon the intention
of the person who says it.
If the help of Hadhrat Ali (A.S.) or Prophet Mohammad an intercessor and a 'waseelah' envisaged by the Holy Qur'an in Ayah 35 of
Suratul Maidah then not only there can be no objection but it would be the
right and proper thing to do.
But if help is sought in the belief that the person whose help sought shares
with Allah the right to create, sustain and
protect then the call for help might amount to 'shirk'.
The Ayah referred to above reads as follows:
"O you who believe ! Be mindful of your Duty to Allah, and seek a way to
approach him ((wab tagoo ilayhi waseelah).................."
Dear Lashkar-e-Abbas,
The obvious way to understand the Truth is to follow what you deem as the better argument. One caution though, that you should be totally objective and unbiased.
Most of my study on Islam has come through by reading scholars of Islam with their different points of view and judging against Qur'an. For this argument, I would say that you should believe I am presenting you with my point of view. You should keep looking for others too and decide for yourself.
Yes, actions are based on intentions, but I believe it would not be wise to perform any action contradictory to Qur'an. Like I said, for me being a Muslim and "submission to God" means only one thing, to follow Islam as intended by God. Our intentions should also be parallel to those intended by God, in effect our intentions should not cause us to perform any action that is contradictory to Qur'an. If we keep following our ways instead of reforming us, then we're Muslims only because we were born so and brainwashed so. Thus, I believe all my intentions are judged against Qur'an.
I mean seriously, I do not know why am I a Muslim if I do not want to follow God.
Btw, no offense meant here whatsoever.
Regards,
Omer
Brother Omer covered my opinion on things very well… all I can do is repeat his words
Have you ever concentrate on THE KALMA you read to be muslim.
“The Allah IS one and Mohammed IS his prophet”
So if you use IS it is present and if you use WAS it is past . Then how can you or ANYONE can says Mohammad (PBUH)is dead.
You say it all the time MOHAMMED IS HIS PROPHET?
So as always some sahibas were wrong? I thank Allah I do not follow them. And Follow his Quran and Ahilaye Bait only.
[This message has been edited by Farhina (edited April 23, 2001).]
Dear Farhina,
Qur'an is clear at numerous places that Muhammad(sm) was an ordinary human being and all human beings die. If you think he is alive, then he must not be a human being. In either case, Qur'an is very clear in that only Allah is eternal and will live forever, it is an exclusive attributed of Allah and also one of his names.
Consider the following verse from Qur'an,
"Say: I am but a man like you who is divinely inspired that your god is but One God." [Qur'an 18:10]
Being an ordinary human being, he obviously died as that is one of the traits of a human being. If he were not dead, he would be amongst us and preaching Islam. There are numerous other verses where God has said that Messengers are chosen from amongst common people and also apparent from hadith that Muhammad(sm) was a mortal human being. And this is God's word.
Regards,
Omer
And as for the kalima, those who are familiar with Arabic would let you know that there is no equivalent of IS in Arabic. And the Arabic style itself is of the form, "Paper is made of wood". Whether you possess any paper or not, whether it exists anymore or not, it is a statement applied in a general principle, same is the style of the kalima that we pronounce.
Considering both these arguments, I think I am inclined into believing that Muhammad(sm) was a human being who has died, but will be a messenger of God till the last of the times.
Best,
Omer
As-Salamun-Alaikum
I agree we should refrain from any sort of salafi bashing.
Brother Laskar-e-Abbas you said that the url was not working. Well try this one.
http://www.salafipublications.org/
It should work because it worked for me.
Another thing that I know about the salafi scholars is that they believe Allah
-Has a shape ie, bodily form
-can be seen by people on the day of judgement
Wa-Salamun-Alaikum-Wa-Rahmatullahi-Wa-Barakatu
Dear brothers,
Although I do not class my self as a follower of any sect, I believe that one should turn to God in all times of troubles and associating any person or thing with AlLah is a shirk.
Prophet (SAWS) had said "Ya Ali Mada" not because he could provide the prophet with divine or heavenly powers but because Ali(raa) was a living being who could have physically helped the Prohet out (please tell me more 'bout htis incident as I am unaware of it).
Every person shall have a taste of death and Prophets are no different from ordinary persons except that they receive reelations from God. After they complete their mission, they depart from the earth just as any other being.
As for the quranic ayah on Shaheeds, I think its only figurative. The Shaheeds are alive in the sense that they remain immortal in our hearts and memories. It would be illogical to ask Major Aziz Bhatti Shaeed for help when we know he could do no good (and no harm) to you.
As I have just started realising the facts of our religion, I think I am too 'illeterate' in religious matters to give personal views. Please do point out if I am wrong or contradict a basic fact of Islam. The greatest blessing of Allah is the logic we ahve been given. I am ready to accept anthing which seems logical.
Thanx...
"Only two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity." I am not quite sure of the universe...