SALAAT VS NAMAAZ.... what is ur opinion?

Society Religion & Philosophy
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**i came across this interesting article.. i thot it was worth a read
**
SALAAT VS NAMAAZ - Read at your own risk!

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Re: SALAAT VS NAMAAZ… what is ur opinion?

lol pathetic article by a misguided man. did you see their picture? Our Beacon About Us

guess what, no hijab is what they say just like those who follow javed ghamdi saheb.

Timepass - November 2012
Timepass - November 2012
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Re: SALAAT VS NAMAAZ.... what is ur opinion?

I find it pathetic too. He gives references to his theory but I don't know how authentic they are. I did a quick google search on the names of the books he quoted but the only thing returned by google was his own article posted at various website.

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so my question is ...

where in the quran does it mention the method of prayer for 5 times a day?

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Re: SALAAT VS NAMAAZ.... what is ur opinion?

The title of the website should be:

The Quran as it explains itself according to ourbeacon.com

Stitching ideas needed
Stitching ideas needed
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Re: SALAAT VS NAMAAZ.... what is ur opinion?

well i was asking because slave ofAllah and mirch discarded the article because Dr. Shabbir accordign to them is a misguided man... thats why i was asking if they can provide references or someone else can provide references from the quran as to prayer method and ritual

thank you,
GenSec (trying to understand islam)

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Re: SALAAT VS NAMAAZ.... what is ur opinion?

another one of those Quraniyeen....
may Allah guide them to Islam and keep them away from this fitnah of denial of the sunnah of the Prophet (saw)....

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Re: SALAAT VS NAMAAZ.... what is ur opinion?

with all due respect does the quran mention sunnah or if we should follow it? and if the prophet lived his life according to the quran.. then why must sunnah be needed?

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Re: SALAAT VS NAMAAZ… what is ur opinion?

^bro, Allah (swt) chose to convey us the message using his beloved chosen individuals.

Do you think Allah need angels to perform various tasks for him?
Do you think he nedeed to send down scriptures when he could’ve written his message over the sky or something so it was impossible for us humans to alter it?

I am sure you would have read the story of Adam and Iblis in the Quran. Ponder over it as it gives us many messages.

Why was this representative of Allah (Adam) superior to the angels who had prayed to Allah for years and years?
Why did Allah ask the angels and Iblis to prostrate to Adam?
Why did Allah then same Iblis, who had swore to Adams enemity, let trick Adam?

Insha Allah once you are able to see the overall picture then you will start to understand what the mission of Islam is. Why were these 124,000 representatives of Allah sent to us? What was the role of Prophet Mohammad (most beloved of Allah) in this mission? and now what our responsibilities are as his followers.

What ironic is that if we use the same sources to reach Allah (swt) that he used to convey his message to us, we are labelled as mushriques by a certain group. So be careful of this group. And ponder on this hadith and a verse from the holy Quran below:

42:23:..No reward do I ask of you for this except the love of those near of kin

Sahi Muslim, Sahi Tirmidhi and various other Shia Sunni sources:

“Iam leaving behind two weighty things for you to follow after me. Quran and my near family…”

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totally understood... i dont mean to challenge others believes , but rather trying to learn islam.

basically my concern for prayer and other rituals raise a concern within... for example.. god went ahead and explained so many things (in great detail) in the quran, what is halal what is forbidden, the division of ones property after death (virasat) just to name a couple... why then is the ritual of prayer not included?

adith, that was written 250 years after the death of the prophet (with references dating back upto 7-8 generations - by word of mouth) ... why do we hold adith such dear to our hearts that we put it ahead of the quran?

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I did not declare him misguided. Read my post again please, to understand what I am saying.

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you referred to is at pathetic ... because of validity to his references... which is totally understood..

now with adhith, how can we be sure? how can we be sure muhammad said that i am leaving u with sunnah and the quran?

Timepass - November 2012
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Re: SALAAT VS NAMAAZ.... what is ur opinion?

^ may be you are refering to the following hadith from Sahi books of hadith both Shia and Sunni:

Muhammad said: "One of them (i.e. the Thaqalayn) is the Book of Allah and the other one is my select progeny (Itrat), that is family (Ahlul-Bayt). Beware of how you behave (with) them when I am gone from amongst you, for Allah, the Merciful, has informed me that these two (i.e., Quran and Ahlul-Bayt) shall never separate from each other until they reach me in Heaven at the Pool (of al-Kawthar). I remind you, in the name of Allah, about my Ahlul-Bayt. I remind you, in the name of Allah, about my Ahlul-Bayt. Once more! I remind you, in the name of Allah, about my Ahlul-Bayt."

They are inseperable from the Quran and they are the guides after the Prophet (saww). If you wish to research more in the light of the above hadith then i suggest you go and read books on: www.al-islam.org

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Re: SALAAT VS NAMAAZ.... what is ur opinion?

thanks man

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Re: SALAAT VS NAMAAZ.... what is ur opinion?

To me the religion is through my faith in it. I have faith that there is Allah and Mohammed(SAW) was his prophet. I also have faith in that Allah sent Quran to His prophet.
I also have faith that Mohammed(SAW) was human and he had to talk and say many things , he guided his companions , in that process he used his wisdom and his voice, those companion reported that guidance, someone recorded that guidance too.
Now yes I do not believe in all the ahadees I have my own filters in place after. I continue studying my religion and my faith and keep striving to make my life in line with Quran , hadees and sunha. If you have done your study and research and you believe that Mohammed(SAW) did not need to guide his companions or all the ahadees are wrong it is you faith . I will leave it to you.

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Re: SALAAT VS NAMAAZ.... what is ur opinion?

Peace GenSec

I think we need to set one thing clear first. The Qur'an has come to us in the same manner that the hadith have come to us.

The difference in hadith and Qur'an is the belief that Qur'an is the Word of God whereas the hadith is its interpretation.

Both the Qur'an and authentic hadith are therefore mutawatir - i.e. they are transmitted by many people in exactly the same way, making the utterance a reliable one. In other words that it is a true utterance historically testable.

However, the hadith does not carry the same legal authority as the Qur'an, because the latter is the Word of God. The reasons for this are more than one. Firstly, we believe the Qur'an is applicable for all times. However, hadith can be situation specific only. We believe that the Qur'an is protected from alteration, but not the hadith necessarily. However, devising the sciences for hadith we have done what we can to maximise the truth that we can draw from the hadith.

It is the Sunnah that brought us the Qur'an and it is Sunnah that we seek from the hadith. They are complementary and cannot be separated. When we establish this then we can move on.

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Peace GenSec

Because we not only call Muhammad (SAW) the vessel which brought to us the Qur'an, but also the best embodiment of it and hence the one who understands it the most intimately. By looking at his (SAW) actions we have been given this view.

It is like having a new project start up ... we can have a contract, but with the contract we have the procedures manual. The Qur'an is like the contract whilst the Sunnah is the procedures manual. They do not contradict one another nor are they designed to replace one another. One is high level the other is low level and is intended to assist at the activity level.

By removing the Sunnah from our view we cannot be sure that we interpreted the Qur'an in the best possible way. As with prayer for example many hadith rejectors have develoepd their own forms of Salah, however, in hadith we have been prescribed its method. How unfortunate it is for us to interpret the Qur'an with our own egotistical minds neglecting the manner it was supposed to be interpreted. When in hadith it is said that the angels pray like the manner we are taught, but then we change this manner to suit our interpretation. I hope you understand my take on this.

Then to say that Sunnah is such and such and the Qur'an is such and such is like trying to say that we accept the Qur'an in the way it came to us, but we do not accept the hadith which have come in the same way, except that perhaps most of them are not as widely sourced. It is an error to think that the contract transmitted to us by the salaf and the procedures transmitted by the salaf are on different frames of reference. The same truthful people who brought us Qur'an are the same truthful people who brought us hadith.

In document hierarchy you will learn that high level documents do not reference lower level documents, rather the lower level ones will reference the upper level ones. So to ask where in the Qur'an does it reference hadith rather you need to ask the questions what do the Qur'anic and hadithic transmissions share? Also you need to ask does the hadith reference the Qur'an and indeed the answer to first question is that in terms of autenticity there are some hadith that are as authentic as the Qur'an, but this does not mean they carry the same legal weight, that is an entirely different matter. The answer to the second is yes the hadith does speak of verses and how they were interpreted.

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Re: SALAAT VS NAMAAZ.... what is ur opinion?

For the record in each of these verses the Qur'an tells us to obey Allah (SWT) and Muhammad (SAW). So we should not separate Qur'an from Sunnah.

There are two red text sections below: the first one demonstrates how ijtihad/fatwa is done by using the sources of Qur'an and Sunnah. The second one can be meant to describe those people who differ in the interpretation of the Qur'an from the established Sunnah.

3:132 And obey Allah and the Apostle; that ye may obtain mercy.
4:59 O ye who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the Apostle, and those charged with authority among you. If ye differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Apostle, if ye do believe in Allah and the Last Day: That is best, and most suitable for final determination.
4:64 We sent not an apostle, but to be obeyed, in accordance with the will of Allah. If they had only, when they were unjust to themselves, come unto thee and asked Allah's forgiveness, and the Apostle had asked forgiveness for them, they would have found Allah indeed Oft-returning, Most Merciful.
4:80 He who obeys the Apostle, obeys Allah: But if any turn away, We have not sent thee to watch over their (evil deeds).
4:81 They have "Obedience" on their lips; but when they leave thee, a section of them Meditate all night on things very different from what thou tellest them. But Allah records their nightly (plots): So keep clear of them, and put thy trust in Allah, and enough is Allah as a disposer of affairs.
24:51 The answer of the Believers, when summoned to Allah and His Apostle, in order that He may judge between them, is no other than this: they say, "We hear and we obey": it is such as these that will attain felicity.
24:52 It is such as obey Allah and His Apostle, and fear Allah and do right, that will win (in the end),
47:33 O ye who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the apostle, and make not vain your deeds!
64:12 So obey Allah, and obey His Apostle: but if ye turn back, the duty of Our Apostle is but to proclaim (the Message) clearly and openly.

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Re: SALAAT VS NAMAAZ.... what is ur opinion?

Quran 3:31
Say, (O Muhammad, to mankind): **If ye love Allah, follow me; Allah will love you and forgive you your sins. Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

anyone who claims to have read Quran shud not even question the importance of following sunnah of the Prophet (saw) after reading this verse....

but as Allah says in the Quran....
Quran 6:33
*.. though in truth they deny not thee (Muhammad) but evil-doers flout the revelations of Allah. *

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pyasah, thanks for the information - i respect your views... but i disagree with you saying the same people who brought the quran are the same ones who brought the adith .. adith was written nearly 250 years after the death of the prophet (not by the same ppl who brought us the quran).. only the references that bukhari quoted came from upto 8 generations dating back to the prophets time. believing in the quran being gods word has a lot , if not everythign to do with iman. but beliving in what sahih adith written 250 years later is simply choice ?

Don't question the importance of sunnah? i'm assuming this is how they've raised you?
what happens if you do question it? hellfire?