Re: Sada Suhaagan Raho!
Sindoor is not Sandal, but the way it used by Meer Anis or Afshan as used by Biharis is same as Sindoor in Hindus.
For Sada Suhagan’s use for Prostitutes:
Mita Lifestyle Agenda - Narendra Agarwal - Google Books
(page: 81)
(page # 272)
Re: Sada Suhaagan Raho!
No. I never said it's gender neutral! I said in Punjabi, we don't use this phrase, we have various common gender neutral blessings used for both married or non married people. It's a very filmy dialogue. We don't use this phrase at all.
So basically you are saying that wishing married woman that may you always remain married should not be seen as a dua, the giver of dua never had or seldom attach any well meaning, positive and kind intention behind it. The women other than gaining financial security didn't care about being married or loved their husbands? So all in all, the phrase carries nothing but truly depressing sinister meaning?
Suhagan literally means married woman. How can this word be used for prostitutes since they were barred for marrying?
If the point of this thread is to extract victimhood out of this phrase and impose the great burden of history on it, then that's fine. I shall leave this discussion here because clearly I'm taking the phrase at face value. All I know if I am a happily married woman and someone utters this blessing for me, I will certainly take it as a dua.
We use phrases and sayings 9having good wishes) for other party and I don't say people think that much while uttering these words, but origin of phrases do have a history and clues to psyche of a society. We know how important it has been for a lady to be suhaagan in our society. Even, God forbid, she loses her husband, the attitude of society treat her like some criminal.
The society must give their daughters / sisters blessing for happily married life, but it should not promote fears for widowed life.
Re: Sada Suhaagan Raho!
how about ‘teri bivi ki chooRiyan toote’? 
Re: Sada Suhaagan Raho!
Sada khushi raho.. kisi ki muhtaji na dekho, siwae uss khuda ki muhataaji ke jo sab ki hajaten poori karta hai.
ye kaisi dua hai. main to ye dua karunga aap ke liye :halo:
Re: Sada Suhaagan Raho!
No no no :nono: buri soch 
Beti jety rahu khush rahu ye suna hai humarey yahansada suhagan rahu aiseh kabhi suna nahi hinidi dramo or movies ke ilawa 
Re: Sada Suhaagan Raho!
We use phrases and sayings 9having good wishes) for other party and I don't say people think that much while uttering these words, but origin of phrases do have a history and clues to psyche of a society. We know how important it has been for a lady to be suhaagan in our society. Even, God forbid, she loses her husband, the attitude of society treat her like some criminal.
The society must give their daughters / sisters blessing for happily married life, but it should not promote fears for widowed life.
Firstly, this sada suhagan phrase is not even commonly used in Pakistan (at least not in Punjabi, Pashtun, Baloch, Kashmiri or Sairiki cultures). Hence the liberal use of the word 'desi' in this thread quite is bothersome (like always). The Subcontinet is a home for hundreds of different cultures, languages and ethnicities. It's not necessary that entire population of South Asia (especially the contemporary Pakistani society) must carry the baggage and blame for every little shady practice and questionable deed of the past. We neither do karva chaut fast for long lives of our husbands (an occasion where this particular blessing is popularly given to women in Hindi speaking societies of India) nor Muslims practised sati, so I see no relevance in asking people to unnecessarily bear all the nasty burden of history or take all the blame practices that are part of totally different country/culture. Looking at the deep social, economic and legal inequalities in the country, it's not at all difficult to understand why life as a widow (especially with children) was/is so feared. My heart goes out to all the orphans and widows in Pakistan and elsewhere because the state and the society have failed them.
Secondly, I highly doubt that phrase that literally translates as "stay (happily) married forever" would be taken as something that "promotes" fear of widowhood, at least not this day and age, where people are perhaps less paranoid, insecure and superstitious than their ancestors.
Re: Sada Suhaagan Raho!
I don't have command over sayings of all languages spoken in Pakistan, but 'sada suhaagan raho' got equivalent sentences in Sindhi. Considering widow is inauspicious is common in almost all desi communities. In our cultures, majority people still raise eye brows, when a widow opt to start married life again. the sufferings of widows are not part of our history, they still exist and our shared history and folklore do play a role in such sufferings.
Re: Sada Suhaagan Raho!
I don't have command over sayings of all languages spoken in Pakistan, but 'sada suhaagan raho' got equivalent sentences in Sindhi. Considering widow is inauspicious is common in almost all desi communities. In our cultures, majority people still raise eye brows, when a widow opt to start married life again. the sufferings of widows are not part of our history, they still exist and our shared history and folklore do play a role in such sufferings.
You basically have a problem with people wishing married woman that may you have lifelong companionship of your husband because in your head it means they're promoting fears of widowhood? Really? Cynical and paranoid much? What do you want to people to say to a newly wedded bride to balance things out, perhaps something like "may you two remain together forever, but if one of you die by any chance, don't think it's the end of the world?". You are so concerned and fixated over the words that aren't even said and meaning that's not even intended, instead of acknowledging the kind, positive and warm message these blessings clearly carry on the face value.
Last time I checked, Pakistani culture and psyche is also heavily influenced by religion. Widows and orphans hold a special place in our religion, there are plenty of instances in Quran and hadith where their status is elevated andf fair and kind treatment is prescribed. In a country like Pakistan, are these people victim of staggering social and economic inequalities or they're treated like dirt/criminal/outcast because of folkore and history and what not.
Re: Sada Suhaagan Raho!
You basically have a problem with people wishing married woman that may you have lifelong companionship of your husband because in your head it means that they're promoting fears of widowhood? Really? Cynical and paranoid much? What do you want to people to say to a newly wedded bride to balance things out, perhaps something like "may you two remain together forever, but if one of you die by any chance, don't think it's the end of the world?". You are so concerned and fixated over that words that aren't even said and meaning that's not even intended, than the kind, positive and warm message these blessings clearly carry on face value.
Last time I checked, Pakistani culture and psyche is also heavily influenced by religion. Widows and orphans hold a special place in our religion, there are plenty of instances in Quran and hadith where their status is elevated andf fair and kind treatment is prescribed. In a country like Pakistan, are these people victim of staggering social and economic inequalities or they're treated like dirt/criminal/outcast because of folkore and history and what not.
I don't have problem with this saying. I have a problem with the possible origin of this saying and its continuous reflection on our society.
As far as religion is concerned, religion is all good till it doesn't affect our vested interests. Jahez is considered right of ladies, but they are not given right in inheritance. there we follow customs 'bahi se hissa lene wali ko acha nahin samjha jata' , 'sada chiRya da chanba way, babal assan ud jana te pher wapis nai aana, wirasat lene bhi nai' type stuff.
Re: Sada Suhaagan Raho!
Good thing is that this saying is not even popularly used in Pakistan. So there's very little point in exaggerating and generalising something that has very little cultural relevance in contemporary Pakistani society. We don't celebrate karva chaut in Pakistan, and we need to stop needlessly imposing baggage of history on people who have nothing to with the particular past in question.
Yes the situation of orphans and widows is appalling in Pakistan, but for goodness sake, it's not because of these Bollywood ashirwaad sayings. Let's talk about the things that truly make their lives difficult, and it is the deep social and economic inequalities and injustice. Besides, financial security or what not, any woman who loves her partner would be dead afraid of becoming a widow. It's a natural thing. Are women supposed to be chastised for this kind of thinking? If you want women to not see widowhood as the end life and the world itself, then give them platform and opportunities that'll make life, despite the huge emotional trauma, a lot bearable - and this is to provide with financial assistance and economic opportunities that'll make them and their children self sufficient, and allow them to lead a dignified life. Stressing over why widows are not invited to godh bharai, nit picking petty cultural customs and rituals is not going to solve their problems.
You keep emphasising on the abolished practice of sati and making it seem like how that kind of mindset is such an integral part of today's "desi" culture. Does that mean Islam has clearly failed in Pakistan? Despite Quran and hadees explicitly elevating the status of widows and orphans, do "desi" (God knows which group of people you are referring to here) treat widows as sati? Islam hasn't made an iota of differences in that mindset and thinking? Are widows still treated as criminal and satis in Pakistan? Is the situation all doom and gloom? Is Bollywood and Indian dramas really taking over Pakistan? Maybe it's time to introduce some health dose of Western liberalism to fix, I mean liberate them "desis" still stuck in the age of sati.
Btw, just to counter widows as inauspicious argument with personal example, my oldest Phuppo is a widow and after my Mother, she was the second person to apply mehndi on my sister's hand on her wedding. But it's probably just my family that doesn't believe (or isn't even aware of) such disgusting nonsense.
Re: Sada Suhaagan Raho!
This is never used in Pakistan NEVER
Re: Sada Suhaagan Raho!
Thanks. So now onwards and upwards towards female Imams? I assume there will be widespread support for that based on this threads concern for gender equality.
Re: Sada Suhaagan Raho!
Thanks. So now onwards and upwards towards female Imams? I assume there will be widespread support for that based on this threads concern for gender equality.
I just wanted to clarify that idea. My answer may disappoint. People can all have views but what is to happen is not for non-Muslims to decide. It is for Muslims to decide just as it is for Christians to decide whether it is right or not to have female priests or imams. Happy raksha bandhan to you if you celebrate the festival.
Re: Sada Suhaagan Raho!
I just wanted to clarify that idea. My answer may disappoint. People can all have views but what is to happen is not for non-Muslims to decide. It is for Muslims to decide just as it is for Christians to decide whether it is right or not to have female priests or imams. Happy raksha bandhan to you if you celebrate the festival.
Of course. Why should that answer disappoint me?
Re: Sada Suhaagan Raho!
Of course. Why should that answer disappoint me?
pata nahi just said it in case. I think because my comment is not long enough to be LPS :/
Re: Sada Suhaagan Raho!
If there was no such thing as doing women satti mebbe this line may not have originated
Re: Sada Suhaagan Raho!
Hum borrow bhi kartay hain tau woh cheezain jinka faaida nahi