Re: Sabeel e Hussain
my village is a 100% sunni and 100% Muslim...some families used to organize moHarram juloos with ta'ziya and nauHa Khowaanii on the day of moHarram. my dad did NOT allow us to go to these julooses, even to watch it. as a kid i remember i used to go for one reason and that was to see how poor people lined up to get khichRaa and pulaao and zarda. i never ate because i thought these foods were spit on by the cook...lol...we used to call it langar.
Re: Sabeel e Hussain
Is there a chai ki sabeel during winter?
No as far as I remember there is Doodh ki sabeel not chai
Chai se mjhe Kashmiri chai yaad ayegi sardiyon ki :p
Re: Sabeel e Hussain
my village is a 100% sunni and 100% Muslim...some families used to organize moHarram juloos with ta'ziya and nauHa Khowaanii on the day of moHarram. my dad did NOT allow us to go to these julooses, even to watch it. as a kid i remember i used to go for one reason and that was to see how poor people lined up to get khichRaa and pulaao and zarda. i never ate because i thought these foods were spit on by the cook...lol...we used to call it langar.
Seems this misconception and hatred is spread in all regions. from Allahabad to Sindh. People don't even think that how children and elders of shia community are eating that food.
Re: Sabeel e Hussain
Seems this misconception and hatred is spread in all regions. from Allahabad to Sindh. People don't even think that how children and elders of shia community are eating that food.
true...i would say this is as a result of misconception rather than hatred. btw, my dad didn't let us go to these processions because of religious reasons.
same thing with 'koonda bharaaii' thingy. we never ate anything on the occasion of konnDaa bharaaii due to this reason but my dad didn't allow because of again the religious reasons.
Re: Sabeel e Hussain
true...i would say this is as a result of misconception rather than hatred. btw, my dad didn't let us go to these processions because of religious reasons.
same thing with 'koonda bharaaii' thingy. we never ate anything on the occasion of konnDaa bharaaii due to this reason but my dad didn't allow because of again the religious reasons.
Have you never eaten something given by Hindus on their festivals like Diwali, Holi, etc? Just asking.
Re: Sabeel e Hussain
Have you never eaten something given by Hindus on their festivals like Diwali, Holi, etc? Just asking.
no...never! it's NOT about a shi'a giving a food...as i said it's a myth that we think they spit on food before offering to sunnis...i disagree on celebrating such occasions with religious belief. i do NOT eat not because of the myth but because of the religious practice.
as far as Holi/Diwali prasad/gift is concerned, you never know which miThaaii is laced with 'bhaang' :D
Re: Sabeel e Hussain
But they do faqa on 8th to 10th Muharram. On 10th, they break this faqa after Asr.
Faqa or Roza?
Re: Sabeel e Hussain
I know those all routes each and every place from where this all starts and ends and the haveli too their main haveli been there many times as well
Ok, one reason that our parents wouldn't let us go near the matimi jaloos was that we might get scared of the blood (zanjir zani), but then in the 90s the situation further deteriorated due to sectarianism.
Re: Sabeel e Hussain
Faqa or Roza?
Faqa.. No concept of Roza in these days among Shia community (told by one of shia friend)
Re: Sabeel e Hussain
My father being a medical doctor used to treat the guys after they had done their zanjir zani.
Re: Sabeel e Hussain
My father being a medical doctor used to treat the guys after they had done their zanjir zani.
what is the origin of zanjeer zani? Don't read anywhere that it was prevalent in Arab culture.
Re: Sabeel e Hussain
what is the origin of zanjeer zani? Don't read anywhere that it was prevalent in Arab culture.
I am not sure, maybe uncle google can help.
Re: Sabeel e Hussain
I am not sure, maybe uncle google can help.
Across sects, there are similarities in popular Islam, but also differences that set them apart. The month of mourning is an occasion for all Shiis to experience a shared history, to make a public statement about their allegiance, to remember, and to grieve. These emotions bind the pan-Shii community. However, the manner of expressing this shared emotion sets them apart.
Extreme and dramatic forms of expression such as flagellation with chains and knives (zanjir ka matam), walking on coals (ag ka matam), or mock funerals find little support among the Bohras. They are spectators in Twelver Shiis rituals, but their own practices are in-house, thereby creating and maintaining a sectarian identity. Popular observances among the Khojas are sparse and relegated to the privacy of their community prayer halls. The variety in observed sectarian rituals highlights the unity and diversity in observed Islam. The underlying unity suggests possibilities of a pan-Shii identity, but this has been overshadowed by the need for a stronger sectarian identity.
**
(Extract from: THE WOMEN OF KARBALA
Ritual Performance and Symbolic Discourses
in Modern Shii Islam
edited by kamran scot aghaie)**
Re: Sabeel e Hussain
what is the origin of zanjeer zani? Don't read anywhere that it was prevalent in Arab culture.
jaise ungli kaTaa ke shaheedoN meN naam likhvaayaa jaataa hai isii taraH zaraa saa lahoo de kar shohadaa kii saf meN khaRe hone kii ek tashbeeH pesh karnaa hai...
Re: Sabeel e Hussain
jaise ungli kaTaa ke shaheedoN meN naam likhvaayaa jaataa hai isii taraH zaraa saa lahoo de kar shohadaa kii saf meN khaRe hone kii ek tashbeeH pesh karnaa hai...
But what are the cultural roots of this practice? I heard that similar practices are also common in some Hindus.
Re: Sabeel e Hussain
But what are the cultural roots of this practice? I heard that similar practices are also common in some Hindus.
u mean self flagellation? yes...i've not seen but heard about it...not by zandeer with mini knives attacked to the mini chains [barchhii maatam]...they use leather whip and hit themselves very mildly.
Re: Sabeel e Hussain
u mean self flagellation? yes...i've not seen but heard about it...not by zandeer with mini knives attacked to the mini chains [barchhii maatam]...they use leather whip and hit themselves very mildly.
The matam, according to Shias who participate in it, creates a powerful continuity of suffering in which the community members feel that they have demonstrated their willingness to suffer for the Imam’s cause by inflicting pain on their own bodies. Shii men, women, and children all participate in the kind of matam in which only the palm is used to strike one’s chest. The criticism leveled at this practice, at times even within the Shii community, is aimed at another kind of matam, the instrumental matam, in which Shii men use chains, knives, and blades to express their sorrow.
In the instrumental type of matam, the male upper body becomes a battleground, as if to proclaim that the devotees would have spilled their blood had they been in Karbala. Most of my friends and I were discouraged from participation in such matam. In fact, no one from my immediate family looked favorably upon this sort of devotion. Implicit in the attack on such matam is the belief that it is not only unnecessary, but also outright unlawful: The blood from open wounds renders the body impure for ritual prayers, so that many of these men, at the very least, were missing one of their five obligatory prayers (nama¯z) by participating in this matam. The most intense matam takes place on the tenth of Muharram, during the third prescribed prayer for Muslims, asfir, since this was the prayer during which the Imam Husain’s head was severed from his body. Criticism of the instrumental matam extends back into history, with some prominent Shii authorities of the nineteenth century going so far as to label this practice a “sin.” Many Shias feel that the best way to honor the legacy of the Imam Husain is through emulating his prayers, not through participating in actions that nullify the ritual ablution required for obligatory prayers. This discourse is also anchored to these critics’ larger concerns:
If the Shii community wants to defend itself against those who accuse Shiism of being fanatical, bloody, and unconcerned with issues of cleanliness/ purity, then it must call for alternative modes of devotion that do not play into these stereotypes.
**
(Extract from: Reliving Karbala - Martyrdom in South Asian Memory by Syed Akbar Hyder)**
Re: Sabeel e Hussain
Ok, one reason that our parents wouldn't let us go near the matimi jaloos was that we might get scared of the blood (zanjir zani), but then in the 90s the situation further deteriorated due to sectarianism.
Even my parents never allowed me to go out of 9 and 10th muharram its like this because my friend lives in Mochi gate I use to go there to visit him and he use to tell me all the stories and everything about them because he has been living there for 20 years now
Re: Sabeel e Hussain
Even my parents never allowed me to go out of 9 and 10th muharram its like this because my friend lives in Mochi gate I use to go there to visit him and he use to tell me all the stories and everything about them because he has been living there for 20 years now
what kind of stories? Is Muharram as followed in Lahore is somehow different from other parts of country?
Re: Sabeel e Hussain
^ it's the same. The fervour of matimi jaloos is more in androon e Lahore, and that's the area where people are living for generations therefore they know each other. You can consider it as a village within a city. That's the place where it's possible to witness Sunnis presenting sabeels to Shias.