Russians 'gassed' 116 hostages to death

Who is the bigger terrorist in all this?

Gas ‘killed Moscow hostages’

Almost all the 117 hostages who were killed when Russian troops stormed a Moscow theatre on Saturday died from gas poisoning, it has been admitted. Only one of those held for three days by Chechen rebels died of gunshot wounds, said Andrei Seltsovsky, chairman of the health committee of the city of Moscow. The statement came as the Russian authorities came under heavy pressure to reveal details about the type of gas used by special forces in their assault on the theatre. Up to 50 Chechen rebels were killed during the attack, but it remains unclear how many of them died from the effects of the gas, and how many were shot dead. Nearly 650 of the rescued hostages are still being treated for gas poisoning in hospital. Dr Seltsovsky told a news conference that 150 were in intensive care, and 45 remained in a critical condition.

US demand

One Russian expert said the gas used was a chemical weapons agent and blamed the high number of deaths on delays in administering the antidote. Lev Fyodorov, president of Russian’s Union for Chemical Safety, told the BBC: "This was a military operation using non-lethal chemical weapons developed during the Cold War. “They would have been intended for a military opponent.” As such, Mr Fyodorov said the authorities would be unable to prevent deaths of civilians in an enclosed space like the theatre. The Russian refusal to say which type of gas was used has irritated several western embassies in Russia.

Terror link

The United States has officially asked for more information, insisting it is crucial for the treatment of casualties. More claims have meanwhile emerged that international guerrillas had a hand in the hostage-taking. The Russian authorities in Chechnya have said that a substantial number of the female rebels were of Middle Eastern origin. This echoes President Vladimir Putin’s recent suggestion that there were Arabs and Afghans among the hostage-takers. The Russian security service later said that it had intercepted intensive exchanges over mobile telephones between the hostage-takers and Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates and Turkey. According to reports, Russian officials have instructed doctors not to let survivors out of hospital in case there are some hostage-takers hiding among the victims. Russian President Vladimir Putin made an emotional television address hours after the raid, in which more than 700 Russian and foreign hostages were freed. The president appealed for forgiveness for not having saved all the captives, but said the Russian forces had “achieved the near impossible, saving hundreds, hundreds of people”. Mr Putin declared a day of national mourning on Monday for those who died in the siege.

Mystery gas

The special forces stormed the complex after pumping in the potent gas to disable the Chechen rebels. The gas also incapacitated many of their hostages, leaving some unconscious, with breathing problems and memory loss. Distraught families have been clamouring for information about relatives who are being held at medical facilities across Moscow, but so far they are not being allowed inside. Police believe some of the Chechen rebels might be posing as civilian victims and they want to screen all the patients. The Russian authorities often react with irritation to foreign - especially western - criticism of the war in Chechnya. And the information about the suspected origins of the hostage-takers is likely to boost their demand for understanding from the West, says our correspondent Steven Eke. But there are also serious questions to answer. about how the rebels managed to occupy the Moscow theatre. Russia’s borders are not open. The country allows foreigners to enter only after they complete strict visa formalities. Foreigners living in Russia have to register with the police and may have their identity checked at any time.

So much for the massive applause Russia's special forces got for the operation.... turns out it was yet another clumsy military effort by Russia.

For every 1 hostage-taker killed by the Russians, the Russians killed 2 of their own citizens.

The beautiful irony of this is that in reality, the only winners were the Chechens involves themselves. They went into the theatre fully expecting to die, making a demand they must have full-well known Putin would never meet.

The Chechens have hammered home to Russians the fact that Putin lied and declared the Chechen War to be over.... this could surely have been the only outcome they could reasonably expect.

Meanwhile, Putin has to bear the political impact of a bloody and clumsy rescue effort by his forces, as well as the embarassment of having his claims to have subdued Chechnya exposed.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by mAd_ScIeNtIsT: *

For every 1 hostage-taker killed by the Russians, the Russians killed 2 of their own citizens.

[/QUOTE]

Yes, and for every 1 hostage the Checens killed the Russians killed 117 -so much for the bravery of the Russian forces. The Russians have behaved with the same bloodthirsty tactics in this crisis, as the Chechens have long claimed they have in Chechnya.

The Chechens have shown the world who the real terrorist is, by a long stretch...

well russians are jus very brutal ppl..actually majority of the europeans

The terrorists said they were going to start killing the hostages, the gas knocked out the explosive strapped terrrorists before they could set off their devices.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by underthedome: *
The terrorists said they were going to start killing the hostages, the gas knocked out the explosive strapped terrrorists before they could set off their devices.
[/QUOTE]

yeh and killed so many of their own...like i said they are brutal....human lives dont mean much to them..and if the terrorist wanted..they could have started killing hostages...one by one...and i dont think thats what they wanted to do

Thats what happens when your decisions are made by special ops who are paid 2bucks a week (Canadian)

we got to admit compared to these russians chacha Rumsfield looks very understanding, compassionate and almost human.

chechans had started killing hostages. They had shot two when the russians acted. Atleast that is what the news says.

Don’t they have snipers in Moscow? It could all have been prevented.

Not quite factual, as usual on your part. News reports say that the Chechens only killed one or two hostages. The Russians killed 116 hostages by using the poison gas they did. Here click on this news report:-

Moscow’s chief physician said Sunday that all but one of the 117 hostages who died during an operation to free hundreds of hostages from a city theater were killed by the effects of gas used to subdue their captors.](Yahoo News: Latest and Breaking News, Headlines, Live Updates, and More)

OldLahori has gone to check back with his sources on how he can get out of his lies and fabricate more to make Russians look as heros again.

Wow that gives a whole new dimension to gassing one's own people :D How evil is that.. tut-tut..wonder, americans have any plans lined up for attacking russia and taking out putin

The Russians did not want that gas to kill the hostages but only knock out those that were strapped with explosives, what went wrong will need to be investigated. Blame lays with the terrorist scum that took all these people hostage though. The Russians had very few options and the gas mixture was clearly wrong.

It seems that the Russians may have used a chemical weapon prohibited under international treaties. If so, then Russia has a lot to answer for in effect massacring these hostages.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A24691-2002Oct26.html

Concerns Arise Over Type Of Gas Used by Moscow

The unidentified gas used by Russian security forces in their raid on a Moscow theater appears to have been an incapacitating agent that may fall into the gray area of international restrictions on chemical weapons, U.S. experts said yesterday. Before storming the theater, where about 700 people were held hostage by Chechen militants, security forces pumped an odorless gas into the building’s ventilation system that put most of the hostages and their captors to sleep. Russian officials have declined to identify the chemical used in the operation, describing it generically as a “sleeping gas” or “special gas.” “We have only been given general information that it was an incapacitating or calming agent, but we do not know specifically the nature of the substance,” U.S. Ambassador Alexander Vershbow told reporters in Moscow.

Emergency workers who entered the theater after the raid reported seeing people slumped over as if they were sleeping. There were some reports of nausea and vomiting, along with hallucinogenic effects. Experts said it was impossible to know for sure what gas was used without more detailed evidence of its effects, but speculation included an aerosol form of Valium or a Cold War-era agent called BZ, which was developed by the United States and nicknamed the “sleeping agent” by U.S. soldiers. BZ can produce both sleepiness and hallucinations. “It sounds like some sort of incapacitating agent, and BZ certainly fits in that category because it can put you to sleep,” said Frederick Sidell, a former U.S. Army chemical weapons expert. But some experts also cautioned that BZ is highly unpredictable and frequently increases agitation and excitability, which would have undermined the goal of neutralizing the militants. Jonathan Tucker, a longtime chemical weapons expert and a senior fellow at the U.S. Institute of Peace in Washington, said that the use of BZ or other similar chemicals would be a violation of the Chemical Weapons Convention, which was signed by Russia in 1997. The convention bans the production, stockpiling and use of numerous toxic chemicals and agents, but includes exceptions for nonlethal agents used for riot control and other domestic security purposes. “There’s something of a blurry line between a riot-control agent and an incapacitant,” Tucker said. “Something like tear gas, which has a very transient effect, is allowed, but an agent that has incapacitating effects for several hours are clearly banned.” Elisa Harris, a chemical weapons expert at the University of Maryland and a former staff member at the National Security Council, said that "if they used something other than tear gases in this scenario, they may well be in violation of the Chemical Weapons Convention. But there’s really too little information at this point to tell for sure." Lev Fedorov, president of the Russian Union for Chemical Safety, speculated that the gas used was one not banned by the convention. “Many countries have such poisonous substances, including Russia,” he said on Russian television. “With us, they came into being around the threshold of the 1960s and the 1970s and thank God were never used on such a big scale. But this time around one had to use it.”

UTD: it still does not give russia to use such atrocious means in negotiating the situation. Too, bad so many people had to die. If russia had taken care of the mess in checnya, then we wouldn't be in this situation.

Russian can do want they want to protect their people in their country and won’t let terrorists set the agenda. If a passenger jet was to be taken hostage in the U.S. then it would be shot down but in the end that would likely have saved lives, these are tough choices to make but in the end it sounds like this did save lives.

Details of the run-up to the special forces bursting into the theatre became clearer on Sunday.

A reporter for the Interfax news agency, Olga Chernyak, who was among the hostages, was quoted by Interfax as saying: “We were all waiting to die. We understood that they would not let us out alive.”

She added that two hostages were shot in response to a young boy having a tantrum and running for the exit.

“He dashed towards the exit, shouting: ‘Mummy, I don’t know what to do.’ They opened fire on him, but missed and hit seated people instead,” she told Russian television from her hospital bed late on Saturday.

Putin called the operation on the theatre part of the international fight against terrorism.

“We have proven that Russia will not fall to its knees.”

http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/europe/10/27/moscow.deaths/index.html

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*Originally posted by underthedome: *

Russian can do want they want to protect their people in their country and won't let terrorists set the agenda.
[/QUOTE]

99% of the Russian hostages were killed by the Russians? True or false?

UTD: that makes you a hypocrite, then why can't you apply the same principle to Iraq. After all, that's saddam's own people. So what exactly is the difference..between putin and saddam...? Both have the blood of their own masses on hands. At least putin can show some dignity and resign, and live up to the moral standards that we hold so dearly.

Just slightly on a tangent, but still important to mention. When Russian re-invaded and occupied Chechnya in 2000 it did so after a series of terrorist attacks on apartment blocks in Russia. It blamed those on the Chechens, when in fact quite a lot of Russian people believe it was the Russian security services (FSB) who carried them out, to justify invading Chechnya.

“I first had doubts – like many people in Moscow – after the facts came out about the Ryazan incident. After that, in Moscow, I spoke with former and current FSB officers. During the conversations I tried to deduce whether it was theoretically possible that the FSB was behind the Moscow blasts.” Felshtinskii says that after traveling to Moscow and speaking with a number of FSB officials, he concluded that his suspicions were correct](http://www.rferl.org/nca/features/2001/08/29082001130642.asp)