Rumi's Poems

Arts & Culture Poetry ( Intikhaab & Sho'ra-e-Gupshup)
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i used to think they transcend cultural boundaries but i realized later they don’t. there was one in particular that i held really close to my heart, this one

A true Lover doesn’t follow any one religion,
be sure of that.
Since in the religion of Love,
there is no irreverence or faith.
When in Love,
body, mind, heart and soul don’t even exist.
Become this,
fall in Love,
and you will not be separated again.

which i thought transcended all religions but i realized that i would be disrespecting Rumi if i saw it the way i wanted to see it since Rumi was a muslim and only saw the Quran’s words as paramount and was very islam centric. inside, very strongly i was hoping that this poem was showing tolerance and universality that somehow united all humans by erasing differences but it doesn’t right?

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Re: Rumi’s Poems

:slight_smile: good :k:

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thanks but explain to me what rumi meant by this part

Since in the religion of Love,
there is no irreverence or faith.

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:lajawab:

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i would like to see the poem in Farsi because sometimes the translations aren't accurate. the keyword in this poem is 'religion' as it has been translated. i strongly suspect the word in Farsi is 'mazhab' which does NOT necessarily always mean 'religion', do you have this poem in Farsi?

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Simply amazing :lajawab:

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Nice :)

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no i was hoping somebody in the poetry section would have the farsi version of it b/c i wanted to know what Rumi meant by the part in bold in particular, this part:

Since in the religion of Love,
there is no irreverence or faith.

i used to think that it was talking about how in Divine Love for God there is no irreverence or faith necessary but obviously that is not the case in Islam so that would just be my own personal interpretation of his poem and probably not what maulana Rumi meant :bummer:

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i tried to search for this poem but, unfortunately, couldn’t find it.
**
i don’t think the translation of the Farsi word as ‘religion’ is correct because, as u said, it doesn’t make sense for a sufi poet. i suspect the word wasn’t ‘deen’, it must have been ‘mazhab’ which is loosely translated as religion but in stricter sense of ‘deen’ ‘mazhab’ means different ‘school of thoughts’ then it makes some sense. maulana Rum Prolly meant to say that no matter what school of thought u belong to…

i’ll look up again in the deevaan of maulana Rum, and will get back to u, iA :slight_smile:

i’m sure, as you know, he is talking about love of Allah and not the love of the mortals.
**

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^why did he say that there is no irreverence or faith though?

and i didn't say that he meant love for mortals, i was talking about love for God but i was thinking he meant when being intensely in love with God there is no way of being irreverent or faithless with God especially when we're in that state of being totally and completely lost in the state of being in love with God which is what this part(When in Love,
body, mind, heart and soul don't even exist.
Become this,
fall in Love,
and you will not be separated again*)*meant............that was my understanding of it.

yes please if you understand farsi then hope you find the farsi version so you will be able to explain this part i was wondering about

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**i think he is alluding us to the islamic concept of ‘fana billlah’ [self denial for God] whereby u give up being urself as a human being and ur wills, ur desires, ur existence is no more…u become ONE with God…i’ll get back to u when i get the farsi version…i’m searching as we speak.

this concept of ‘fana-billah’ was explained by another mystic poet, Amir Khusro [r.a.] in the following words:

man tu shudam, tu man shudi; man tan shudam, tu jaaN shudii
taa kas an goyad ba’d az iiN…man deegaram, tu deegari

****I have become you, and you me,
I am the body, you soul;
So that no one can say hereafter,
That you are are someone, and me someone else.
**

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^^^ok that is what i thought was this:

Coming closer to God meant we're finally merging with God Almighty forever This became possible when all the impurities within our soul are removed forever. the soul finally liberating itself......especially when rumi says 'body, mind, heart and soul don't even exist'.......entering the Kingdom of God, jannat

Coming closer to God meaning the state of enlightenment

one could never come closer to God by indulging in path of rituals...path of religion. Coming closer to the supreme God almighty meant our soul after gaining absolute purity and finally merging with God Almighty

This particular poem by Rumi, I thought meant all that

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ur summarization is true in most part. BUT, Islam does NOT cater to the idea of absolving humans of his/her religious ritualistic obligations...one is still required to live in the society, be a productive member of the society and marry and have children, go through all the temptations in life and then refrain oneself for the love of God. self annihilation only means to curb one's desires, needs and temptations. this is called the real and the biggest jihad...jihad [struggle] with one's self.

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i happened to listen in on the radio recently to one of rumi's english translators who has spent half his life translating and interpreting the mawlana.. in his personal opinion, sufi thought, as pursued by rumi and shams, wasn't something tied onto Islam, it is something that has been in the region independent of religions. which is one reason why rumi commanded so much respect in his day even when his poetry could be interpreted as sacrilege by some of literalists..

what rumi's exact perspective was, would be hard to tell today. the best one can do is know all his work and try to see what his view could have been. or, let your own self sail in his mystic poetry. i think you try too hard to work your secular angle. which is just as annoying as someone claiming their religion is the only path over and over.

one thing i love about rumi's vision, something that recurs, is how he starts with pointing out how we are so small and immaterial in this huge universe, and in a few words, he inverts it all.

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KKF,
i'm seeing only similarities between islam and other religions, urgh i should stop doing that,
i know what jihad means, i have studied islam for almost 2 yrs with a couple muslim friends in college, during that time i learned a lot so i do know that jihad means struggling, striving to improve and better oneself at all times......am still learning about all religions though

but that's what a lot of the other religions also teach, constantly correcting ourselves and getting to the point where we're in total control of our temptations, desires and finally reaching that state of enlightenment or being one with God.

but again, i should stop trying to ignore the differences in islamic culture which Rumi emphasizes

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no there is no "working hard at my secular angle" :p, i just get total peace of mind when i see all the similarities between religions, all are beautiful but trying to study all the religions has gotten me to the conclusion so far that all have flaws or things i just can't get myself to believe or swallow.

that's why the communal harmony or the threads of good relations between india and pakistan get posted by me....only for my peace of mind

i was thinking Rumi was way ahead of his time, his poems did seem to transcend all cultures and religions, bring them together in my mind, some of his poems are so beautiful

like this one too is a beaut:

I tried to find Him on the Christian cross, but He
was not there; I went to the Temple of the
Hindus and to the old pagodas, but I could not
find a trace of Him anywhere.

I searched on the mountains and in the valleys****
but neither in the heights nor in the depths was I
able to find Him. I went to the Ka'bah in Mecca,
but He was not there either.

I questioned the scholars and philosophers but****
He was beyond their understanding.

I then looked into my heart and it was there****
where He dwelled that I saw Him; He was
nowhere else to be found. ---- Rumi***

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KKF did you have any luck in finding actual books on Rumi’s persian poems that were not translated and in their original form?

this one shows him being totally islam centric and not really universal as i had earlier thought him to be: sorry Rumi ji for making your poems to mean something totally different from what you wanted them to mean:hat:

I am the servant of the Qur’an as long as I have life.
I am the dust on the path of Muhammad, the Chosen One.
If anyone quotes anything except this from my sayings,
I am done with him and outraged by these words.

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YES, thats why i stopped participating in this thread when i saw u and another poster trying to make Maulana Rum to be someone he was NOT on the contrary to the beliefs of the masses. this hurt has hurt my feelings so i stopped…yes, i have found but there isn’t any point in sharing. thank you…i’m sorry if i offended u in any way. :slight_smile:

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huh? i started out with this tone though, that i had misinterpreted that poem i had posted in my original post, did you not read that comment of mine? yet you still responded in this thread......

what's up with all the dramabaazi all of a sudden?

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buhat khoub