Ruling on one who slanders ‘Aa’ishah (may Allah be pleased with her)

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Ruling on one who slanders ‘Aa’ishah (may Allah be pleased with her)

Could you please answer my question about Shee‘ah (Shi‘a) Islam? Is it permissible for one to think badly of the Prophet’s wife ‘Aa’ishah, when anything said about ‘Aa’ishah is from authentic hadeeeths, such as Saheeh al-Bukhaari and Saheeh Muslim?

English translation:

Praise be to Allaah.

‘Aa’ishah and the other Mothers of the Believers are included among the Companions of the Prophet (Peace & Blessings of Allaah be upon Him), so every text that forbids slandering the Companions refers to ‘Aa’ishah too.

Abu Sa‘eed al-Khudri (may Allah be pleased with him) said: “The Messenger of Allah (Peace & Blessings of Allaah be upon Him) said: ‘Do not slander my Companions, for if one of you were to spend an amount of gold equivalent to the size of Mount Uhud, you would not even come halfway up to their level.” (Reported by al-Bukhaari, al-Fath, no. 3379).

Moreover, the scholars of Sunni Islam are all agreed that whoever condemns ‘Aa’ishah for that of which Allaah has stated she is innocent is a kaafir, because he has rejected Allaah’s statement of her innocence in Soorat al-Noor.

Imaam Ibn Hazm quoted a report with an isnad going back to Hishaam ibn ‘Ammaar, who said: “I heard Maalik ibn Anas say: ‘Whoever curses Abu Bakr should be whipped, and whoever curses ‘Aa’ishah should be killed.’ He was asked, ‘Why do you say that concerning (the one who curses) ‘Aa’ishah?’ He said, ‘Because Allaah says concerning ‘Aa’ishah, may Allah be pleased with her (interpretation of the meaning): “Allaah forbids you from it [slander] and warns you not to repeat the like of it forever, if you are believers.” [al-Noor 24:17]’”

Maalik said: “Whoever accuses her goes against the Qur’aan, and whoever goes against the Qur’aan should be killed.”

Ibn Hazm said: “This comment of Maalik’s is correct, and it is complete apostasy to reject Allaah’s words that clearly state her innocence.”

Abu Bakr ibn al-‘Arabi said: “Because the people who slandered ‘Aa’ishah accused a pure and innocent person of immorality, then Allah exonerated her. So everyone who accuses her of that of which Allah has stated she is innocent is rejecting what Allah says, and everyone who rejects what Allah says is a kaafir. This is the opinion of Maalik, and the matter is very clear to those who have insight.”

Al-Qaadi Abu Ya‘laa said: “Whoever slanders ‘Aa’ishah by accusing her of that of which Allah stated her innocence is a kaafir, without doubt. More than one imam stated this ijmaa‘ (consensus) and gave this ruling.”

Ibn Abi Moosaa said: “Whoever accuses ‘Aa’ishah, may Allah be pleased with her, of that of which Allaah stated she was innocent has left the religion (is no longer a Muslim) and has no right to marry a Muslim woman.”

Ibn Qudaamah said: “It is a part of the Sunnah to say ‘May Allah be pleased with her’ after mentioning the wives of the Prophet (Peace & Blessings of Allaah be upon Him), Mothers of the Believers who are pure and innocent of any evil. The best of them are Khadeejah bint Khuwaylid and ‘Aa’ishah al-Siddeeqah bint al-Siddeeq, whose innocence was stated by Allah; (they are) the wives of the Prophet(Peace & Blessings of Allaah be upon Him) in this world and the next. Whoever accuses her of that of which Allah has stated her innocence has rejected the words of Allaah All-Mighty.”

Imam al-Nawawi, may Allaah have mercy on him, said: “‘Aa’ishah’s innocence of that of which she was accused is stated definitively in the Qur’aan. If anyone doubts that (may Allah protect us from such a thing), he becomes a kaafir and an apostate, by the consensus of the Muslims.”

Ibn al-Qayyim, may Allaah have mercy on him, said: “The ummah is agreed that whoever slanders her is a kaafir.”

Al-Haafiz ibn Katheer said, in his Tafseer: " The scholars, may Allah have mercy on them, all agreed that whoever accuses or slanders her after the revelation of this aayah is a kaafir, because he has rejected the Qur’aan."

Badr al-Deen al-Zirkashi said: “Whoever slanders her is a kaafir, because the Qur’aan clearly states her innocence.”

The scholars based their ruling on the one who slanders ‘Aa’ishah on the following evidence:

(1) The evidence that is derived from the verses in Soorat al-Noor that clearly state her innocence. So whoever accuses her after Allah has declared her innocent is rejecting the words of Allah, which is kufr beyond any shadow of a doubt.

(2) Slandering the family of the Prophet SAWS (peace be upon him) hurts and offends the Prophet himself, and there is no doubt that whatever hurts and offends the Prophet SAWS (peace be upon him) is kufr, by consensus (ijmaa‘). Evidence that the slander of his wife hurt and offended the Prophet (Peace & Blessings of Allaah be upon Him) is seen in the hadeeth of the slander (al-ifk) reported by al-Bukhaari and Muslim, in which ‘Aa’ishah says: “. . . The Messenger of Allaah(Peace & Blessings of Allaah be upon Him) stood up on that day and asked who would go and deal with ‘Abdullaah ibn Ubayy. He was on the minbar, and said: ‘O Muslims, who will deal with a man who I have heard is speaking in an offensive manner about my family? By Allaah, I know nothing but good about my family.’ . . .” What the Prophet (Peace & Blessings of Allaah be upon Him) meant was: who will be kind to me, and excuse me if I go and deal with him myself, and I give him what he deserves because I have heard that he is speaking in an offensive manner about my family. This proves that the Prophet (Peace & Blessings of Allaah be upon Him) was so deeply offended and hurt that he asked people whether they could deal with this person fairly.

Imaam al-Qurtubi said, in his Tafseer of the aayah “Allaah forbids you from it [slander] and warns you not to repeat the like of it forever, if you are believers.” [al-Noor 24:17]":
“This is concerning ‘Aa’ishah . . . because of the hurt and offence that the Messenger of Allah (Peace & Blessings of Allaah be upon Him) felt with regard to his honour and his family. This is kufr on the part of the one who does it.”

(3) Slandering ‘Aa’ishah implies insulting the Prophet (Peace & Blessings of Allaah be upon Him), because Allah, may He be glorified, says (interpretation of the meaning):
"Bad statements are for bad people (or bad women for bad men) and bad people for bad statements (or bad men for bad women). . . " [al-Noor 24:26]
Al-Haafiz ibn Katheer, may Allah have mercy on him, said: “I.e., Allah would not have made ‘Aa’ishah the wife of the Messenger of Allah (Peace & Blessings of Allaah be upon Him) if she had not been good, because he is better than any good person. If she had been bad, she would not have been fit to marry him from a shar‘i point of view, and Allah would never even have decreed it..”

Finally, let us remember that the most beloved of all people to him (Peace & Blessings of Allaah be upon Him) was ‘Aa’ishah al-Siddeeqah bint al-Siddeeq, as is proven in the report of ‘Amr ibn al-‘Aas, who said: “The Messenger of Allaah(Peace & Blessings of Allaah be upon Him) put me in charge of an army during the ghazwah (campaign) of al-Salaasil. I came to him and asked him, ‘O Messenger of Allaah, who among the people is most beloved to you?’ He said, ‘Aa’ishah.’ I asked, ‘Who among men?’ He said, ‘Her father.’ I asked, ‘Then who?’ He said, ‘‘Umar,’ then he mentioned a number of others.”

So whoever feels hatred towards the beloved of the Messenger of Allaah (Peace & Blessings of Allaah be upon Him) will deserved to be despised by him on the Day of Resurrection. And Allaah knows best.

By Sheikh Muhammad S. Al-Munajjid

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Bismihi Ta'la
Assalam o alaikum

dear br. Abdulla, appreciate your concern and honest appraisal of the issue surronding the mother of the believers, Bibi 'Aisha.

what you have shared specifically is in reference to the al-ifk incident and Allah subhanahu in his noble Book has exonerated her of this charge. This is very well explained in Sura al Nur vv11-20.

the stance of the shia is the same as that of the Qur'an and any one who wishes to construe to the opposite is mis-guided because they are rejecting an outright, explicit exoneration of Bibi 'Aisha from the noble Book.

lo and behold, the shias have a qualm with Bibi 'Aisha because she took arms against the Caliph/Imam of the time, the fourth rightly guided Caliph and the first Imam of the Shi'ites, Ali bin Abi Talib (peace be upon him). our dis-agreement with her is not with regards to the al-ifk incident, but her role and her responsibility surronding the battle of the Camel and the subsequent killing and murder of thousands of muslims.

i do not wish to belabor on this issue, unless you want me to pursue it, and that i leave it to you. also watch out on my series of articles on 'Quran and Ahl ul Bayt' since i have treated her role extensively surronding the revolt against the Caliph of the time.

Iltimase duas,

Abbas, Ali

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Shia hatred for Aisha

by Abu Sufyan

Here are some examples of the many Shi'ite hadeeth and Quotes from their Scholars regarding the wives of the Prophet (s.a.w) also I would like to point out that no Muslim is even allowed to Insult the wives of the Prophet as they were the Mothers of the Beleivers and are Mentioned in the Quran.

Al killini ( a big Shi'ite schollar) assumes that The Companions of the prophet (s.a.w) had all turned disbeleivers after his death except three. He wrote "All the people rejected Islam after the death of the Prophet except three. I said "And who are these?" He said, "Al Miqudad ibnul Awsad, Abu Dharr Al Ghifari and Salman the Persian. Heavenly mercy be on them all."(Osul Al Kafi; p: 655.) By this Shi'ite statement, we can see that the Shi'ites say that All of the Sahabah apostated except three! By this not only are they Insulting the Sahabah but they are also Insulting the wives of the Prophet (s.a.w) since they were Sahabiat.

In the Shi'ite book called "Al safi Interpretation" it talks about what will happen when the so called twelth Imam will come, here is an example of what it contains... "When Our Kaim (12 Imam) gets up, Al Humiraa (i.e. Umm Al Momineen, Aishah (rd) will be raised from the dead so as to be whipped her due punishment, and so as to avenge the daughter of Muhammed (s.a.w): Fatimah (rd)" (Al Safi Interpretaition; vol 2, P:108)

The same lie about Aisha (rd) is recorded in another Shi'ite book called: Haqul Yagheen (The Acertained Truth) "When our kaim (12 Imam) Shall come back, he will bring Aisha (rd) to life so as to torment her to avenge Fatimah (rd)" (Haqul Yagheen (The ascertained Truth). In persian: p 139.) As you can see the Shi'ites harbor such a great hatred for the Prophet's (s.a.w) wives, the ones who are praised in Hadeeth and Quran.

Now as you can see the Shi'ites have wholly different religion compared to Islam, how can we as muslims say that the ones who insult the prophets (s.a.w)wives are muslims?? it does not make sense! Now if we said that the ones who insulted the wives of the Prophet (s.a.w) were Munafiqs (hypocrites) and Kafar's (disbeleivers) then I could understand you point.

Now my Brothers and Sisters in Islam, do you know the verdict for someone who insults the Prophets (s.a.w) wives? I dont think so.. otherwise there would be a massive push to fight the Shi'ites lies about Islam! so let me show you Inshallah

Abu Sa‘eed al-Khudri (may Allah be pleased with him) said: "The Messenger of Allah (s.a.w) said: ‘Do not slander my Companions, for if one of you were to spend an amount of gold equivalent to the size of Mount Uhud, you would not even come halfway up to their level." (Reported by al-Bukhaari, al-Fath, no. 3379). So by slandering the Companions (Sahabah) you would be commiting Kufr! for Allah says in the Quran:

Say (O' Muhammed -s.a.w-): "Obey Allah and the Messenger, But if they turn away, then Allah does not Like the disbelivers." so by slandering the Companions you are not obaying the Prophet (s.a.w) which is not obaying Allah! can't those Shi'ites see the truth which is in front of their faces???

Imaam Ibn Hazm quoted a report with an isnad going back to Hishaam ibn ‘Ammaar, who said: "I heard Maalik ibn Anas say: ‘Whoever curses Abu Bakr should be whipped, and whoever curses ‘Aa’ishah should be killed.’ He was asked, ‘Why do you say that concerning (the one who curses) ‘Aa’ishah?’ He said, ‘Because Allaah says concerning ‘Aa’ishah, may Allah be pleased with her (interpretation of the meaning): "Allaah forbids you from it [slander] and warns you not to repeat the like of it forever, if you are believers." (al-Noor 24:17)’"

Abu Bakr ibn al-‘Arabi said: "Because the people who slandered ‘Aa’ishah accused a pure and innocent person of immorality, then Allah exonerated her. So everyone who accuses her of that of which Allah has stated she is innocent is rejecting what Allah says, and everyone who rejects what Allah says is a kaafir This is the opinion of Maalik, and the matter is very clear to those who have insight."

and let me finish of with this Hadeeth inshallah:

The Prophet said: "The best of my nation is my genaration then those who follow them and then those who follow them." Sahih Bukhari

So how can we Insult someone who were more pious and who loved the Prophet (s.a.w) more than anyother generation. All I say to the Shi'ites is Fear Allah and stop these Insulting Lies about the Wives of the Prophet (s.a.w)

May Allah Guide the Shi'ites to True Islam, and May Allah show us what the Shi'ites really are, Ameen

By: Abu Sufyan

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Can u tell me where is she (Aashiyah) buried?
If you have so much knowledge on Ashiyah you should know where she is buried.
Can u also tell us how Abu Bakr, Usmaan, and Umar mistreated and abused Fatimah(pbuh)since you know so musch on Islamic history.

[This message has been edited by Fanatic (edited May 19, 1999).]

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Mr xtreme

Point taken about Aisha and when you have said that:

...."how can we as muslims say that the ones who insult the prophets (s.a.w)wives are muslims?? it does not make sense!"

It's understandable to see how one gets furious at such instances. But how about the Event that took place at Karbala?? Why don't you sunni's have any regard for that...why do our tears on ashura bother you so much. That we cry for Imam Hussain and his family at karbala who were martyrd. Wasn't Imam Hussain from the Family of Prophet Mohammed p.b.u.h? Don't you think that the Prophet was hurt then? So we being shia's are
are hated by you because we mourn the martydom of the Prophets Grandson? Does that make sense!!!??? Wasnt Imam Hussain beloved to the Holy Prophet???

All I can say to people like you to fear Allah as well. Maybe you dont see eye to eye with us. So be it!!! Let Allah be the judge.

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I do not understand why we should mourn for Hazrat Imam Hussain R.A;

First as per Quran a Shaheed is not dead, though we do not know the life of a Shaheed.

Second, as per Islamic rules, it is not permissible for us to mourn for one's death for more than three days (no. of days are different for different relatives), hope you know that.

There were many many other Sahaba and relatives of Prophet SAW who got Shahadat in many ghazwat, why don't you mourn them also, i.e. Hazrat Hamza RAA, etc..

I watched the 10th Muharram program on News on PTV and saw that its nothing but all Bid'aat and Shirk. The horse they take with them, and so many things, and beating themselves. A person who has never prayed in the year, beats himself and claims the love of Prophet SAW's family.

Wallah O Alam Wassalatu Wassalamu Ala Nabiyyana Mohammed wa Ala Alayhe Wa Sahbiyhe Wasallam

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I also don't see your point either...that your get so upset when we do mourn Imam Hussain(a.s)...You don't have to but when we do again I say why do our tears bother you so much!!!???? And whats this business with shirk and bidat...people like you would go to any extremes just to make others look bad with your self-righteous attitudes. And who are you to say whether the person has prayed namaz or not. It's sad when one doesnt look at himself in the mirror first. Why don't you leave Allah to be the judge.

Here's is an Article to give you some insight as to why we Mourn Imam Hussian(a.s)

THE HISTORY AND PHILOSOPHY OF MAJLIS AL-HOSSEIN
by Kamyar M. Hedayat

    In the hot and crowded hall, muffled laments are released like

sullen
doves and tears roll amidst sobs like dew on the petals of trembling
roses. All are focused on Hossein. All are thinking about the
Master of the Martyrs. There is no past, there is
no present, there is only now; there is no you, no I, only Hossein;
there is no fear of death, there is no desire for this world, their is
only liberation, freedom and love of truth, for this is the majlis of
Imam Hossein (A). From the youngest of ages, we learn about the tragedy
of Karbala, and wherever there are Shia, one can find people lamenting
and participating
in dirges for him. Some people have questioned the
"true" Islamic nature of these acts. Some claim that it is an
innovation and a grave sin in Islam.
Others, consider this noble event to be "backwards",
and others, still, believe that its purpose is just to make simple,
emotional people cry.
In this article, ensha Allah, we will examine the
historical roots of these observances, as well as the philosophy behind
it.
The main element of the commemoration of Karbala is
the remembrance (thikr) of the suffering of the holy
personages of that tragedy. From at least the time of Imam Jafar
al-Sadeq (A), this was done through a poetic account of the events.
The first majils, however, was held by Imam Hosseinss sister, Seyyeda
Zainab (A) and his son, the fourth
Imam, Zainul Abideen (A). It took place on the fourtieth day after the
massacre at the very sight that it occurred. During their time and for
many years thereafter, the political and social
conditions did not allow for public recitation.
Hence, the devout Shia held private ceremonies.
Public majlis has its origins in the year 963
AD/352 AH, nearly three hundred years after the tragedy of Karbala. It
was instigated by
Sultan Muizz al-Dowla, a Shia ruler who wanted to
publicly protest his objections to the corrupt leadership of the
Abbassid dynasty. He used the
incident at Karbala as a metaphor for the corruption
and deviation present in the umma in his day. The majlis of Imam
Hossien (A) became a rallying
point for the Shia in addressing the injustices of
the past as well as for demanding greater self-determination.

But what is the philosophy behind majlis? Is it
really just a folk tradition carried too far? Should we, living in the
West, abandon it all together? If one examines the basis of majlis,
one learns that it is
actually at the heart of Islam and is one of its
greatest and most sincere manifestations of love and piety for Allah,
the Prophet (S) and his pure
progeny. The philosophy of the majlis of Imam
Hossein (A) is based on the concept of free will, one of the issues
which distinguishes the noble
Shiite school of thought from the other schools of thought in Islam.
This issue of pre-destination versus free will was itself magnified due
to the tragedy of Karbala because of the questions which it raised in
the minds of the umma. Do not forget that the people who committed the
atrocities against Imam Hossein (A) were themselves Muslims who
believed in towhid and maaad and said their prayers and made their
fasts. How could they behead the person whom their own Prophet would
place on his lap and kiss
as a child, and not feel guilt? How could they
justify having stripped
naked and trampled with horses the body of the man
called the "Chief of the Youths of Heaven"? After realising what they
had done, how could they have not revolted against Yazid?

The answer which appealed to the ruling elite was
the idea that all things are predestined by Allah. This served to
maintain the status quo. Because all is pre-destined, if the outcome
of it is good, the action was good and if it were bad, then the action
was bad. If Allah does not want something to happen, it wont, and if
it did, that means that
He approves of it. People cannot rebel against the
authorities because Allah has predestined for them to be in authority
and to rebel against them would be to rebel against the will of Allah.
A little thought will quickly reveal the false
nature of this argument. Allah has stated "And if We had pleased, We
would have given to every soul its guidance, but the word from Me was
just. I will certainly fill hell with the jinn and men together."
(45:13). Allah decreed neither guidance nor misguidance to people.
Rather, He has given us faculties of thought and sensation, prophets,
Imams and divine books to all to guide us. This is how He
distinguishes between the faithful and the unfaithful.
If all actions were predestined, then no one could
be held accountable for
their deeds, because they did not choose to do them.
Yet, Allah has stated that some will go to hell because of their
misguidance. If He made
some people misguided by design and destined them to
go to hell out of no choice of their own, then He would be punishing
them not only for something they did not chose to do, but for something
that He made them do. This would imply that Allah would be an unjust
God (Allah forbid), but that is an impossibility, for it is against the
refined and glorious nature of Allah. As He has stated, "Surely Allah
does not do injustice to the weight of an atom. . ." (4:40), and,
"Surely Allah does not do any injustice to men, surely man does
injustice to himself" (10:44)

The justice of Allah has always been one of the
pillars of belief in Shiite Islam. Allah is just and no injustice can
be attributed to him.
From the time of Seyyeda Zainab and Imam Zainul Abideen (A), the whole
purpose of thikr was to recall the injustice done to not only to Imam
Hossein (A), but the suffering endured by all the holy personages of
the Ahl al-Bayt (AS). Majlis became a vehicle for expressing this
vital and important concept of free will. As we had mentioned earlier,
public majlis originated in the efforts of Shiites to assert their
political rights and draw a connection between the tyranny and
oppression suffered by Imam Hossein (A) and that suffered by
themselves. Having a similar situation requires acting in a similar
manner. This has been one of the greatest weapons of the Shia
throughout the years for inspiring resistance against the oppressors
and renewing our bonds of faith and faithfulness to Islam. The opinion
of many of our great Islamic scholars has likewise supported the
taziyeh performances. Fazel Qommi, the great 19th century theologian
stated about it, ". . .there is a time when it is among the greatest of
religious works. And this which is merely to please Allah is a great
jihad and Allah is such that if a person humbles himself in His cause,
He does not exclude him from His blessing."

Many people have asked what the purpose of crying
for people who lived and died 1200 years ago is, suggesting we forget
all about it and move on. To do this would be to forget about Islam.

Why do the Imams (A) assign such great merits to
these acts that they become a mark of faith and an act of worship? You
cannot truly weep for them unless you understand their generosity,
courage, piety and
sacrifice for Truth. To do this, you must study their words and
actions, which by its very truth will instil a desire to put them into
practice.
Then, when you sigh for them, you will be remembering Allah and His
promise of the just Kingdom to be established by Imam al-Mahdi (A),
thus increasing your faith and sabr during hardship. When you recall
that Allah in His mercy sent those guides and proofs of His religion to
save us from deviation and the hell fire, then you shall shed tears for
their monumental task and scacrifice for the guidance of all mankind.
Recall how the Prophet (S) has said that one hour or contemplation is
better than seventy years of worshipand Allah (SWT) has stated,
"Therefore remember
the benefits of Allah that you may be successful"(7:69) Thus, it is
not difficult to see how a sigh for those purified and wise
personalities is like an act of worship, for it is actually an act of
contemplation of and remembrance of Allah, "and certainly the
remembrance of Allah is the greatest." (29:45)
What about the promise of sins being forgiven? How
is it possible that crying for the Ahlul Bayt would be rewarded with
the forgiveness of sins and a palace in paradise when the same is not
promissed for other lesser acts (fariya)? My dear friends, know that
you do not have to die on the battlefield to be a shahid. You do not
need to hold a sword in your hand to be a mujahid in the path of Allah.
A shahid is literally
someone who witnesses something, in this case, truth and towhid. A
person who witnesses to truth and calls people to it and struggles to
understand the truth, apply the truth, live the truth and spread the
truth, is a mujahid and shahid while he is alive and will die the death
of a martyr, even if he passes away in his sleep in his bed. As we
have mentioned above, to cry for the infallible leaders of the ark of
salvation requires a total change in paradigm and a dedication to
living and dieing for truth and love. Perhaps when one cries for Imam Hossein (A), one has
become of shahid of his struggle and sacrifice for Mohammadan (S) Islam
over Yazidi Islam. And perhaps that is
why the eighth Imam, al-Rida (A), has stated, "If it would please you to
have the reward of those who were martyred with Hossein, say whenever
you remember him, Oh how I wish I were with them that I may have
achieved great victory. "
Another benefit of the the majlis of Imam Hossein(A) also creates a
continuity of experience between the Muslims and their leaders, making
each generation feel as if they were with the Imam(AS) and the Prophet
Mohammad (S). Consider how when you remember deceased loved one it is
as if they are alive and in your presence. By remembering the lives of
those infallible ones, repeating their hadith and living their sunna,
we enliven the spirit of connection between us and them. It gives us
hope, it counsels us in times of difficulty, and provides a path of
bravery,
wisdom, generosity and patience on which to base our lives.

Imam Hossein (A) made a decision to confront injustice and tyranny
rather than be complacent to it. The victory of Karbala was not
decided in the battlefield but in the hearts of the truth-seekers and
lovers of
Allah. The real battle was not over power but over justice and
obedience to Allah and His Prophet. That is also why those who have
properly understood the message of Karbala and emulated Imam Hossein
(A) have succeeded against the greatest odds.

In closing, I quote the faqih, Seyyed Ali Yazdi who
once wrote about Imam Hossein (A), "Is it not sufficient to
cause tears [to flow] that the Imams of the Shia faith are related to
him, and he recongnizes them as his own? Is not the saying of the
great one [Imam Hossein], I am killed so that they will weep enough to
provoke the Shia? Are not the words of Imam Jafar sufficient who said,
Brother, dont you want to accompany Fatimeh in weeping for Hossein?
Are you content that you not show your agreement and sympathy with the
Prophet of Allah and Ali and Fatimeh and Hassan and the other guiding
leaders who are beloved of Allah, and show that you resemble and follow
the Umayyads [by not crying for them]?"

[This message has been edited by Naazish (edited May 20, 1999).]

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Bismihi Ta’la
Assalam o alaikum

Abdulla > I do not understand why we should mourn for Hazrat Imam
Abdulla > Hussain R.A;

In the Shia ethos, the martrydom of the Imam [a] presents to us a tragedy as its
enachment reminds us of the tribulation of the Imam [a]. Also, it presents to us
an enduring paradigm of revivalism, not to be seen and witnessed after the death
of the Prophet (PBUH&HF).

Here are some reading materials on the subject:

Karbala: An Enduring Paradign of Islamic Revivalism, Waheed Akhtar
www.al-islam.org/al-tawhid/default.asp?url=paradigm-akhtar.htm

Ourt Husayn, and our Mourning for him, al Amini
www.al-islam.org/history/history/mourninghussain.html

Abdulla > First as per Quran a Shaheed is not dead, though we do
Abdulla > not know the life of a Shaheed.

I invite you to read the Ziyara of Imam Husayn [a] from

The Rising of al Husayn, Chapter 2 - Mahdi Shams al Din
www.al-islam.org/revolution/2.htm

This will present to you, how we view our salutations to the Imam [a]
and offer an allegiance to the values that he stood and imbued as echoed
in the noble Book.

Also consider the URL below, since it offers a historical perspective
on the nature of the rites of remembering the Imam [a] and the very
cause that he stood for,

The Rites of Rememberance, Chapter 4
www.al-islam.org/revolution/4.htm

Abdulla > Second, as per Islamic rules, it is not permissible for us to
Abdulla > mourn for one’s death for more than three days (no. of days
Abdulla > are different for different relatives), hope you know that.

Depends on what school of thought you follow.

Abdulla > There were many many other Sahaba and relatives of Prophet
Abdulla > SAW who got Shahadat in many ghazwat, why don’t you mourn
Abdulla > them also, i.e. Hazrat Hamza RAA, etc..

A very good question. See, those among the ahlul bayt who had witnessed and
shared companionship with the Prophet (PBUH&HF) were actually Imam Ali,
Hasan, Husayn and Lady Ftima (peace be upon them). The tragedy of the
death of Husayn [a] is a tragedy in two ways [1] the nature of his martrydom
and [2] the nature of the ummah being deprived of the one from the ahlul bayt
who was brought up by the Prophet (PBUH&HF). That is why we commemorate
his tragedy more than any one else. So it is a two fold tragedy.

Abdulla > I watched the 10th Muharram program on News on PTV and
Abdulla > saw that its nothing but all Bid’aat and Shirk. The horse they
Abdulla > take with them, and so many things, and beating themselves.

Of course that is your personal opinion and you are entitled to it.

Abdulla > A person who has never prayed in the year, beats himself and
Abdulla > claims the love of Prophet SAW’s family.

A shia (follower) of the ahlul bayt would act to the contrary, and we can
only pray that all muslims irrespective of their denominations could cater
to a zeal pursuant to the offering of sala, whether they are shia, sunni,
salafi and ahmadi!

Abdulla > Wallah O Alam Wassalatu Wassalamu Ala Nabiyyana Mohammed
Abdulla > wa Ala Alayhe Wa Sahbiyhe Wasallam

Iltimase duas

Abbas, Ali

[This message has been edited by AliAbbas (edited May 20, 1999).]

9

Nazish,
Allow me to contemplate on what you said. You basically admitted, that what some shia scholars say about Hazrat Ayesha, Omar (RAA) and others can be tough to swallow. But you counter argued by saying that Muslims don't respect Hazrat Hussain (RAA) This is wrong on so many grounds, that it's funny...

1- What kind of counter argument is that anyway ? Instead of bashing people who carry such filty thoughts about people (who were the earth and moon to our Prophet SAW), you tried balancing it by another wrong ?

2- And that wrong is totally baseless. When I laugh at a matam procession, I laugh at the 'jahaalat' (mark my words, carefully, I never mince them) of all that. If you go ahead and see who are taking part in that jalsaa, you 'll notice how many don't even know why they are there in the first place. Smiles on their faces 'll be a giveaway. Islam is a very level headed religion, which doesn't go near extremes. Our prophet suffered losses of so many dear ones and he made it known through his actions (and sayings) how and in what way we are supposed to act. At best, the maatam and beating one self is a waste of time, money and resources and at worst it's a complete denial of what the Prophet told us. Above all, saying that, doesn't mean that I don't have respect of Hazrat Hussain (RAA). I have more respect for him and I feel more heart broken for what happened about 1350 years ago than thousands of people combined who choose to cut themselves with knives and/or wail/howl at deafening decibell levels. But I am a Muslim too, and I follow the sunna of my prophet who told me and all of us, how to handle such grievances and moments of pain. This is the opinion of all muslims. How can anyone say a word against Hazrat Hussain (RAA) ? He's one of the most pious people in the Prophet's ummat. How can anyone forget how he and Hazrat Hassan both risked their lives guarding Hazrat Usman (RAA)'s house the penultimate day of his shaadat ? And how dear both of them were to our Prophet ?

And by the way, this is not a self-righteous speech. As a Muslim, it's my duty, not to stay quiet in front of acts (like maatam juloos) which bring a bad name to my religion, or drag down the memories of Hazrat Hussain RAA (who incidentally happens to be my great great... great grand father too) and his companions, to a soap opera level.

I hope you'll at least try to understand what I am talking about without discounting me as another of those 'kill shias, we shouldn't trust them' people.

10

deepblue:
I have admitted to no such thing....I just pointed out that how one gets so defensive at such an action ... I was never taught nor have I believed to ridicule/slander any of Prophets companions, wives, family etc acceptable.

It just escapes me as to why the post was just used to bring hatred towards shia's...and Bibi Aisha was used as one example. So I just wanted to take that and bring in another point which I feel is just as important. That is Imam Hussain(a.s) and what tragedy he and his Family had to face in Karbala. And how people like you who have just revealed the same pre conceived notion about why we mourn for Imam Hussain (a.s). Just the same as anyone would find it hard to understand or swallow anyone who slanders a prophets wife ...I find it hard to understand that if we as Shia's mourn the events that took place at Karbala, the family of Our Prophets (p.b.u.h) who were killed and we show our emotions and grief by weeping or doing matham that it bothers you??? or anyone for that matter. How does that in any way drag down the Memories of Imam Hussain(a.s) and the other martyrs? Imam Hussain (a.s) is my great great .... great grandfather just the same. I may cry and weep for him thats my personal choice...is it not? Where as you would sit and laugh at me if I do so right? Isnt that what your saying? Give me a break will you!!!!

you said:

"...I have more respect for him and I feel more heart broken for what happened about 1350 years ago than thousands of people combined who choose to cut themselves with knives and/or wail/howl at deafening decibell levels..."

and I have the same respect for him as well and maybe you find it hard to comprehend or you like to laugh by just by observing something like matham...that's your own choice...for those of us who do mourn again I say why does it bother you so much??? It's our crying that bothers people like yourself or is it that we Remember the tragedy that befell Imam Hussain (a.s) that you slander us the believers with this century old prejudice? No one is asking you to do Matham but making fun of those who weep at that tragic events that took place at Karbala doesnt make it right. And why do people like yourself seem to be bent upon proving my faith wrong. You may feel that my religious convictions me be wrong in "your eyes"...well so be it...thats a choice you have made for yourself. We will all be judged by our deeds and actions by Allah (swt) and no one else!!! So why dont you let Allah be the judge...if you find it funny thats your perception. But you have no right to ridicule others who mourn....by calling it a Soap Opera. Get Real!!!! For I dont find it a laughing matter!!!!
You have only proved to me that its ok if you ridicule the believers and mock them the believers who mourn for the Prophets grandson Imam Hussain(a.s) and his family. Which in it self is totally wrong and baseless to defend your point that made no sense at all.
And this debate between Sunni Shia's have been going on for years. Neither you will change your views nor I...so let it be and quit this prejudice againts others beliefs. And if you defend yourself and say its your duty as a muslim not to stay quiet...well I to am practicing the same duty given to me.

[This message has been edited by Naazish (edited May 21, 1999).]

11

Bismihi Ta’la
Assalam o alaikum

deep blue > Allow me to contemplate on what you said. You basically admitted, that what some
deep blue > shia scholars say about Hazrat Ayesha, Omar (RAA) and others can be tough to
deep blue > swallow. But you counter argued by saying that Muslims don’t respect Hazrat
deep blue > Hussain (RAA) This is wrong on so many grounds, that it’s funny…

the role of Bibi 'Aisha particularly in the battle of Camel, and also her relation to the
first Caliph has made her the target of much criticism and also abuse by some shia
historians. this was primarily governed by several factors, and one of them being the some
what less restraint environment that allowed the shia historians to write about history,
particularly when prior to this they were subject to much restraints from the governments.
whilst, there is absolute dis-regard to the understanding of shia narrators, that is much
complicated than ahlal sunna rijal, primarily due to the many off shoots that emerged out
of those groups who tended to ascribe to a following of the imams of the ahlul bayt.

also there is a great deal of polemic involved when it came to an interpretation of
certain historical incidents, be that the battle of camel, Bibi 'Aishas role in the
pursuance and insistence of her fathers legitimacy of the caliphate and also her dis-like
for Imam Ali [a]. This dis-like was primarily fueled for one reason: with the events
pointing to the al-ifk issue where Bibi 'Aisha was the subject of slander. The Imam had
advised the Prophet (peace and blessings be on her) to divorce her. This is a reality
that can not be ignored.

as to the role of the second Caliph, much of it stems from the issues surronding the
nomination of the shura committe, his role in the events of saqifa and the subsequent
selection of the first Caliph to the seat of khilafa. of course there is an entire list
of innovations that are attributed by the shia to the second caliph.

how-ever much disturbing is the issue revolving the threat to burn down the house
of the daughter of the Messenger of Allah, when Abu Bakr was appointed as the first
caliph. Knowing that many ashab had not rendered allegaiance and that they were
gathered in the house of the daughter of the Messenger of Allah,

When Umar came to the door of the house of Fatimah, he said:
“By Allah, I shall burn down (the house) over you unless you come out
and give the oath of allegiance (to Abu Bakr).”

  • History of Ibn Athir, v2, p325
  • al-Isti’ab, by Ibn Abd al-Barr, v3, p975
  • Tarikh al-Kulafa, by Ibn Qutaybah, v1, p20
  • al-Imamah wal-Siyasah, by Ibn Qutaybah, v1, pp 19-20

and

Umar Ibn al-Khattab came to the house of Ali. Talha and Zubair and
some of the immigrants were also in the house. Umar cried out:
“By God, either you come out to render the oath of allegiance, or
I will set the house on fire.” al-Zubair came out with his sword
drawn. As he stumbled (upon something), the sword fell from his hand
so they jumped over him and seized him."

  • History of Tabari, English version, v9, pp 186-187

In the footnotes of the same page (p187) in the English version of the
History of al-Tabari the translator has commented:

Although the timing is not clear, it seems that Ali and his group
came to know about Saqifa after what had happened there. At this
point, his supporters gathered in Fatimah’s house. Abu Bakr and
Umar, fully aware of Ali’s claims and fearing a serious threat from
his supporters, summoned him to the mosque to swear the oath of
allegiance. Ali refused, and so the house was surrounded by an armed
band led by Abu Bakr and Umar, who threatened to set it on fire if
Ali and his supporters refused to come out and swear allegiance to
Abu Bakr. The scene grew violent and Fatimah was furious. (See Ansab
Ashraf, by al-Baladhuri in his , v1, pp 582-586; Tarikh Ya’qubi,
v2, p116; al-Imamah wal-Siyasah, by Ibn Qutaybah, v1, pp 19-20).

Abu Bakr said on the authority of an authentic report that, after the
demise of the holy Prophet when the people had paid fealty to him, Ali and
Zubair used to go to Fatimah al-Zahra, daughter of the Prophet, for
consultation. When this fact was known to Umar, he went to Fatimah and said:

“O’ daughter of the Prophet! I didn’t love anyone as much as I
loved your father, nor anyone after him is more loving to me as
you are. But I swear by Allah that if these people assemble
here with you, then this love of mine would not prevent me from
setting your house on fire.”

  • al-Imamah wa al-Siyasah by Ibn Qutaybah, v1, beginning of the book,
    and pp 19-20- Izalatul Khilafa, by Shah Waliullah Muhaddith Dehlavi, v2, p362
  • Iqd al-Farid, by Ibn Abd Rabbah al-Malik, v2, chapter of Saqifah

Also it is reported that:

Umar said to Fatimah (who was behind the door of her house): “I know
that the Prophet of God did not love any one more than you, but this
will not stop me to carry out my decision. If these people stay in
your house, I will burn the door in front of you.”

  • Kanz al-Ummal, Muttaqi al Hindi, v3, p140

In fact Shibli Numani himself testifies the above event in the following words:

“From Umar’s irritable and peevish temperament such an action on his
part was not improbable.”

  • al-Faruq, by Shibli Numani, p44

deep blue > 1- What kind of counter argument is that anyway ? Instead of bashing people who
deep blue > carry such filty thoughts about people (who were the earth and moon to our Prophet
deep blue > SAW), you tried balancing it by another wrong ?

see this is where the difference lies. the ahlal sunna seem to look at the ashab primarily
in a window that sets their actions during the life time of the Prophet (peace be upon him).
there is almost altogether a dis-regard for the incidents proceeding after the demise of
the Messenger of Allah, and also a few incidents preceeding his demise. while we dis-agree
with the three caliphs, the entire issue boils down to the succession to the prophet. while
the ahlal sunna agree that the Prophet (peace be upon him) never appointed a successor,
that almost seems like a fallacy, there is greater contradiction to the sunna of the three
caliphs when it comes to the selection/appointment of the successor. The first caliph
issued a will before his death, dicatated to the third Caliph, even though his state
of physical health was not challenged by the second caliph, who stated that the prophet
was “uttering non-sense” when he asked for a pen and a paper.

It is narrated in Sahih Muslim that:

Ibn Abbas said: “Thursday! And how tragic that Thursday was!” Then Ibn
Abbas cried severely so that his tears flowed to his cheeks. Then he
added Prophet said: “Bring me a flat bone or a sheet and an ink so
that I could write (order to write) a statement that will prevent you
people to go astray after me.” They said: “Verily the messenger of
Allah is talking no sense.”

  • Sahih Muslim, Chapter of “Kitabul-Wasiyyah” in section “Babut-
    Tarkil-Wasiyyah”, 1980 Edition, Arabic version (Saudi Arabia), v3,
    P1259, Tradition (#1637/21).

Sahih al-Bukhari Hadiths: 9.468 and 7.573
Narrated Ibn 'Abbas:

When the time of the death of the Prophet approached while there were
some men in the house, and among them was 'Umar Ibn al-Khatttab, the
Prophet said: “Come near let me write for you a writing after which
you will never go astray.” 'Umar said: “The Prophet is seriously ill,
and you have the Quran, so Allah’s Book is sufficient for us.” The
people in the house differed and disputed. Some of them said, “Come
near so that Allah’s Apostle may write for you a writing after which
you will not go astray,” while the others said what 'Umar said. When
they made much noise and quarreled greatly in front of the Prophet, he
said to them, “Go away and leave me.” Ibn 'Abbas used to say, "It was
a great disaster that their quarrel and noise prevented Allah’s
Apostle from writing a statement for them.

also

Sahih al-Bukhari Hadith: 5.716
Narrated Ibn Abbas:

Thursday! And how tragic that Thursday was! The ailment of Allah’s
Apostle became worse (on Thursday) and he said “Bring me something so
that I (order) to write for you something after which you will never go
astray.” The people (present there) quarreled in this matter, and it
was not right to quarrel in front of prophet. They said, “What is wrong
with him? (Do you think) he is talking no sense (delirious)?”

such is the state of affairs that of all the people, the ashab had to
differ with the Messenger of Allah, not withstanding the fact that he
was nearing death, paying no respect and no regards to the wishes of
an ailing man.

read more on this account at www.al-islam.org/encyclopedia/chapter4/3.html
for the traditions regarind this incident.

now returning to the issue of the nomination. the first caliph was suffering from
fever and would loose consciousness time and time again [see Tarikhul Khulafa, al Suyuti,
in english also availbale]. so the first caliph differed with the sunna of the Prophet. the
second caliph appointed a shura of six people, again in stark difference to the sunnah of
the prophet and the first caliph. what is interesting is that NONE, and i say NONE of the
ansar were consulted, nor was any ansar present in this six member committe. this is the
price they paid when they supported and forwarded imam Ali’s [a] name to the caliphate at
the meeting at saqifa.

Al-Bukhari narrated:

Umar said: “And no doubt after the death of the Prophet we were
informed that the Ansar disagreed with us and gathered in the shed of
Bani Sa’da. 'Ali and Zubair and whoever was with them, opposed us,
while the emigrants gathered with Abu Bakr.”

Sahih al-Bukhari, Arabic-English, v8, Tradition #817

Other traditionists narrated that on the day of Saqifah:

Umar said: “Ali Ibn Abi Talib, Zubair Ibn Awwam and those who were
with them separated from us (and gathered) in the house of Fatimah,
the daughter of the messenger of Allah.”

  • Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v1, p55
  • Sirah al-Nabawiyyah, by Ibn Hisham, v4, p309
  • History of Tabari (Arabic), v1, p1822, english version, v9, p192

also:

They demanded confirmation of the oath, but Ali and al-Zubair stayed
away. Al-Zubair drew his sword (from the scabbard), saying, “I will
not put it back until the oath of allegiance is rendered to Ali.” When
this news reached Abu Bakr and Umar, the latter said, “Hit him with a
stone and seize the sword.” It is stated that Umar rushed (to the door
of the House of Fatimah) and brought them forcibly while telling them
that they must give their oath of allegiance willingly or unwillingly.

  • History of al-Tabari, English version, v9, pp 188-189

the third caliph died without leaving a will, leaving the matter entrusted to the
people. so all the three caliphs differed in their method of nominating of a
successor. even though the ahal sunnah consider umar b. abdul aziz as a righteous
caliph, he was nominated by virtue of his relation to his father.

deep blue > 2- And that wrong is totally baseless. When I laugh at a matam procession, I laugh at
deep blue > the ‘jahaalat’ (mark my words, carefully, I never mince them) of all that. If you go ahead
deep blue > and see who are taking part in that jalsaa, you 'll notice how many don’t even know why
deep blue > they are there in the first place. Smiles on their faces 'll be a giveaway. Islam is a very
deep blue > level headed religion, which doesn’t go near extremes. Our prophet suffered losses of
deep blue > so many dear ones and he made it known through his actions (and sayings) how and in
deep blue > what way we are supposed to act. At best, the maatam and beating one self is a waste
deep blue > of time, money and resources and at worst it’s a complete denial of what the Prophet
deep blue > told us. Above all, saying that, doesn’t mean that I don’t have respect of Hazrat Hussain
deep blue > (RAA). I have more respect for him and I feel more heart broken for what happened
deep blue > about 1350 years ago than thousands of people combined who choose to cut themselves
deep blue > with knives and/or wail/howl at deafening decibell levels. But I am a Muslim too, and I
deep blue > follow the sunna of my prophet who told me and all of us, how to handle such grievances
deep blue > and moments of pain. This is the opinion of all muslims. How can anyone say a word
deep blue > against Hazrat Hussain (RAA) ? He’s one of the most pious people in the Prophet’s
deep blue > ummat. How can anyone forget how he and Hazrat Hassan both risked their lives
deep blue > guarding Hazrat Usman (RAA)'s house the penultimate day of his shaadat ? And how
deep blue > dear both of them were to our Prophet ?

i agree with you. much distortion has followed and our scholars have spoken against it. i URGE
you to read this 4 series article by the late Murtadha Mutahhari, that very well goes in detail
to the many points that you have shared:

Ashura: Distortions and Misrepresentation.
www.al-islam.org/al-tawhid/ashura/

deep blue > And by the way, this is not a self-righteous speech. As a Muslim, it’s my duty, not to stay
deep blue > quiet in front of acts (like maatam juloos) which bring a bad name to my religion, or drag
deep blue > down the memories of Hazrat Hussain RAA (who incidentally happens to be my great
deep blue > great… great grand father too) and his companions, to a soap opera level.

deep blue > I hope you’ll at least try to understand what I am talking about without discounting me
deep blue > as another of those ‘kill shias, we shouldn’t trust them’ people.

i hope that my candidancy on the issue of the caliphs will be taken as a critique
in the light of historical and traditional literature. while we dis-agree with the
three caliphs and do not resort to their following, it does find its roots in the
atrocities commited against them in the first place.

regards

Abbas, Ali
www.al-islam.org/index

[This message has been edited by AliAbbas (edited May 21, 1999).]

12

Nazish,
I appreciate your reply. I read it more than once. I do feel that you didn't understand what I said, so let me reiterate few of my points in light of what you argued.

I have admitted to no such thing....I just pointed out that how one gets so defensive at such an action ... I was never taught nor have I believed to ridicule/slander any of Prophets companions, wives, family etc acceptable.<

Two things,
1- I said, that "shia scholars" (some of them) have ridiculed Hazrat Ayesha and others. I didn't say that "you" did it personally.

2- Read your own books. Especially, Al-Kafi written by Al-Kulaini, which is one of the biggest and most authentic source of reference for Shia scholars, as a compilation of traditions and hadiths. I am not forcing you my views. I am just asking you to be informed. That's all.

It just escapes me as to why the post was just used to bring hatred towards shia's...and Bibi Aisha was used as one example.<

Why call it an act of hatred ? If people carry grudges about Hazrat Ayesha, I think we should all know about that (especially if it's a part of their belief system). Let me remind you once again, that this grudge is purely one-sided. In my family and any other non-shia family, I see names like Ayesha, Ali, Omar, Hussain go side by side. Do you know anyone in your family by the name Ayesha ? Or Omar ? To date, I have never seen a shia by the name Ayesha or Omar.

That is Imam Hussain(a.s) and what tragedy he and his Family had to face in Karbala. And how people like you who have just revealed the same pre conceived notion about why we mourn for Imam Hussain (a.s).<

I was not commenting on "why" you mourn for Hazrat Hussain RAA. But "how", which has no Islamic roots, whatsoever.

I may cry and weep for him thats my personal choice...is it not<

Yes, so why don't just keep it personal ? Why create a hoopla ? Why make a drama ? Why write stories with "filmy" dialogues ? Why, all that ?

Hazrat Hamza RAA who got the title Syed-us-Shohda (the best among the martyrs in paradise) from our Prophet (pbuh) , got martyred in Uhad. A Quraishi woman, cut his body up, took out his liver and chewed and spit. He was Prophet's paternal uncle and very very close friend. When he saw his body (or in the days afterwards) did he ask Muslims and his relatives to go berserk ? Or throw sand (khaak) over themselves and if he didn't do that or later on when he actually "forbade" people from wailing and howling, let alone physical antics on passing of their relatives, does that mean he had no respect for his uncle or those departed soul ?

Instead of getting blue in the face, trying to justify all the 10-40 day baseless (even by your own beliefs) activities, why not open your eyes and condemn things which should be condemned ?

And why do people like yourself seem to be bent upon proving my faith wrong.<

I am talking about maatam (as an organised activity) which is not a part of even your faith.

I couldn't possibly care less, proving if your faith is right or wrong.

if you find it funny thats your perception. But you have no right to ridicule others who mourn....by calling it a Soap Opera. Get Real!!!!<

Every year (EVERY year) in Karachi during Moharram, I used to hear a story related with Karbala which I had never heard before. You may have considered Nasser-ul-Ijtihaady at Sham-e-Ghareeban as a person conducting a deeply moving spritual session, but to me or any other neutral observer, he wasn't any different than a WWF wrestler concocting dialogues and stories to play with emotions of those who didn't know much of anything.

Hearing 'haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaiy zainab, mairee buchchee', 'ub aay ho baba, paany kuhan hai' and thousands such cheap dialogues over loudspeakers and TV programs made a mockery of any claim of pain and hurt that those people liked to make.

And if you defend yourself and say its your duty as a muslim not to stay quiet...well I to am practicing the same duty given to me.<

By supporting such non-Islamic activities based on juhaalat and nothing else ?

I don't think I can write any more here without repeating myself, so most likely this is my final post in this thread.

Abbas Sahib,
I think we should agree to disagree. I don't mind when two people disagree, knowing very well what they are disagreeing to. I see that you in some ways, share (partly) my views on this organised maatam activities. I don't want to get into debate on basics of shia faith with you, at least not on internet.

Thanks for the reply.

[This message has been edited by deepblue (edited May 21, 1999).]

13

Assalam O Alaikum

Very well brother deepblue, i could not have explained it better, Jazakummullah khair.