Role of Ulema/Shuyook/Scholars: Increased or Diminished?

Society Religion & Philosophy
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AsSalaamo Alaikum,

I hope all of your ramadan is going well.

The question, and topic of the thread is as titled. Has the role of Ulema/Maulana/Shaykh/Scholars around us increased to influence us to follow the faith (minus the misconceptions, and the bad attributed to adherence of faith; this is not that thread), or has their role become diminished to the point of seeing and seeking them out as a sort of Encyclopedia to reference answers to our questions, without full application in practicality?

Both answer might be correct, because both kind of populace exist. Perhaps, it is the perception that is formed that we notice, rather than fact.

Please share your thoughts.

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Re: Role of Ulema/Shuyook/Scholars: Increased or Diminished?

Apart from popular TV/Youtube "scholars" like Nouman Ali Khan, I am not sure if anyone can actually NAME any scholars.

Just saw on a friend's facebook site that a hadith scholar of Morocco recently died. He knew practically every hadith and it's chain of narrarations and knew the history behind those hadith.

I've never heard of him , didn't know he existed. This is in today's computer/internet age.

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Re: Role of Ulema/Shuyook/Scholars: Increased or Diminished?

Not only are we ignorant of the scholars that are left, but I'm not sure if the vast majority of scholars are even really qualified anymore. Seems we are in an age of "I read some stuff, now I'm gonna start preaching somewhere, watch my youtube vids".

Or pseudo-maulvis with jaali degrees who hand out babies on TV, and make international news for "retard".

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Re: Role of Ulema/Shuyook/Scholars: Increased or Diminished?

Peace brother teggy

Sister PCG is quite right from her perspective. I believe on one hand the scholars are even more relevant today than ever, because of mass ignorance of Islam. But on the other hand their importance is diminishing - (but not in reality) merely in the minds of people.

Today we have to seek out true light bearers of knowledge from the golden chains of the traditional ulema like finding hidden treasure, however our modern life styles prevents us taking more than short breaks away from our routines. Coupled with that there is a wave of scholar personality assassination ... and that adds to the individualism in people that modernity - coming from the winds of capitalism-consumerism instills in us. We like to be masters of ourselves (these days) and we select parts of our religion to justify this type of existence.

Pseudo-scholars who arise from within the system are liked more than traditional ones. Traditions seem in the minds of people to be defunct and a stone throw to much to be incompatible with the lives people are currently leading. They are more likely to "follow" a pseudo-scholar because the person lives much them and is not so alien from what they already enjoy. And when I say follow - it is not like learning from them in person. But merely tagging on their video feeds on Facebook or Youtube type of fellowship. It is an in-line way of keeping "Islamic". A way that does not disrupt our chosen mode of existence.

Part of the immediate popularity of Salafism is because of a misplaced notion that it as an ideology cuts out accountability of people to scholars and following structured religious practices. A slogan of "there is no clergy in Islam" is a highly nuanced phrase and mostly misused and generally wrong anyway ... We have authorities even the Salafis do ... and scholarly works reference the works of past scholars and academics works this way today as well. Publishing a paper without references is next to impossible.

However, people are finding ways to leave the authority of scholars and in turn leave the authority of hadith - they place full authority in the Qur'an and even then are really on reading the Qur'an according to their own authoritative interpretations. The lowest common denominator is not about changing oneself to be a better person anymore - it is more about selecting pick and mix style from a religious suite to custom build a religion to retrofit the individual. Perhaps it gives people more satisfaction to believe they are abiding by their faith rather than admitting they are weak and distant from where they need to be. This resistance to admit ones weakness and to embrace ones fallibility to instill a regime of "seeking forgiveness" and "humility" is a symptom of this modern age of the ego.

We are living in the Ego Age ...

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Re: Role of Ulema/Shuyook/Scholars: Increased or Diminished?

Authority is not required. Actually that has been doing damage. Not sure how taqleedi school of thoughts will respond to the problem but to have authority and no ijaza and keep followers ignorant cause the weakness and distance from Islam, to people you talk about in last paragraph. in fact most of that type of people you see have roots to taqleedi school of thought. Since they are kept away from learning Islam academically, they easily become weak and distant from Islam.
Ego issue is with scholars instead.

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Re: Role of Ulema/Shuyook/Scholars: Increased or Diminished?

Yes in many cases that is true as well. You have not understood the angle of my argument which is from a rich academic Islamic learning process that all children must go into and Islam should be very much part of our lives. I am not arguing for "no 'ijaza" - I am saying the populous need to study and do so and get qualified from ratified places. The argument you are attempting is not really valid. In fact simpletons need to just follow and taqleed is required anyway and although spoken against taqleed happens anyway within the Salafi order.

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Re: Role of Ulema/Shuyook/Scholars: Increased or Diminished?

I would have no issue if taqleed was producing good. But sorry to say its loosing grip. Merely telling people should follow Islam academically would make no difference. Alot of people i know who used to be follower of certain group now are something else. Why would they leave if taqleed was that effective. Its one example. I know from other groups as well. And what you say could be justified theoretically, but in reality its not working. Do you know why its not working?

I tend to believe that problem is inherent to taqleedi approach where focus is mainly on telling people beautiful stories but nothing for understanding Quran and Hadith. Even their academics revolve around how to counter salfis. Mostly focus on socalled Hakayat and false moral stories. I have not much hope from deobandi school of thought now as i feel its being replaced by potentially relatively less practicing sufis in Pakistan.

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Re: Role of Ulema/Shuyook/Scholars: Increased or Diminished?

Performance measure of current Ulemas are their contribution of issues facing in modern world. If I look them I see Mufti Taqi Usmani for his detailed work on Islamic Finance.

Second I see ittehad ul been ul muslimeen, and Moulana Tariq Jameel is living example. He is not scholar, but his speeches are gems.

Third, Nouman Ali Khan.. He is best in explaining and interpreting quran. In my opinion, his work in English language will be classic for upcoming generations.

My exposure to Ulemas is not very wide but above are few I follow them.

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Re: Role of Ulema/Shuyook/Scholars: Increased or Diminished?

What is the role of scholars in a society generally?
It is essentially to provide NEW Knowledge, New Methodology, Cultivate wisdom, preserve meticulously old valid knowledge, correct wrong knowledge, in social spheres of economics, politics, public administration, public legislation, judicial administration, public welfare, science, and philosophy. Generally, their role is to help their society, their community solve the problems of their day, their times, their circumstances.

Examples of Scholars who performed these roles: Ibn Arabi, Ibn Sina, Ibn Rush, Ibn Khaldun, Ibn Haitham, Imaam Hanafi, Imaam Maliki, Imaam Bukhaari, Imaam Ghazali, Hasan Al Basri, Hasan Al Ashari, Maulana Mawdudi, Sir Syyed Ahmed khan, Allama Iqbal. These are some example of scholars of their times who were during some part of their lives actively engaged in the struggle of the people and providing guidance to solve the problems of their time .

So, generally, the way I see things, people:
- Have limited view of scholarship. Shortsighted understanding of it's role in public sphere
- Have incorrectly grouped concept of Khilafa and Imaamat and departed from fundamental injunction of the Quran to engage heart and intellect individually with the full extent of their personal capabilities
- Have fallen trap of puritanism and classicism
- Islam (religion) is used either as a political tool, or a pantheistic ascetic individual experience

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Re: Role of Ulema/Shuyook/Scholars: Increased or Diminished?

Not to mention the vast majority of them are in the clutches of various politicians. How many times do you go to the masjid and have to listen to a political speech, instead of any teachings on how to be a good muslim?

They are quiet too, very quiet. So much injustice regarding muslims in general - where muslims are both the victims and the aggressors, and these people are SILENT.

They have not been able to meld Islam into the modern world either. Every time I hear some "scholar" it's all about how I should be following Islam, like I'm doing a bad job of it right now just by being AMERICAN. There was a time when Islam grew and expanded, and the empire was growing incorporating new traditions and cultures, and they NEVER told those people to abandon their indigent culture.

So what now, to be muslim, I gotta eat hummus and halaal kababs from a arab place. Meanwhile, how about we figure out as a community on how to deliver halal AMERICAN options to the public? But God forbid we work with the kaafirs! How long have muslims been in America and what moves have we made to set up REALIABLE halaal/zabiha options? I've stopped eating halaal because I have no way of knowing if something that says "halaal" is really halaal. Just look at all the documentaries exposing non-halaal meat as being sold as halaal! Basic thing - you think given these "scholars" think the only thing left in America that is halaal is food, then at least focus on that.

They often have ZERO organizational and leadership skills. Talk is talk, but they aren't active in getting anything DONE at the community level.

And like I said, there are a lot of Pseudo-scholars, people who have basically self trained, and now they're spewing their ignorance. Young guys who haven't mastered Islam themselves acting like authorities.

I'm telling you. I prayed behind and listened to a lecture on Allah's purpose in all of us by a PEDOPHILE. Happened just a few weeks ago.

When things like this happen, busy people like me really lost interest in participating in the community, if this is the filth that is out there masquerading as "religious figures"

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Re: Role of Ulema/Shuyook/Scholars: Increased or Diminished?

This is the pedophile that was caught in Florida. He was running an “academy” called “Saleem Academy”. His name is Saleem, hence the name.

What are his qualifications???

He has an UNDERGRADUATE degree in PSYCHOLOGY. From a local college in Florida, not even a properly reputable place to study psychology actually. NO RELIGIOUS FORMAL TRAINING AT ALL. Apart from sitting with God knows who and reading the Quran.

In fact, the “lecture” I attended, he translated an ayat of the Quran and I really didn’t get where he was getting his implications of the translation from. I even offered him other viewpoints on how to translate that verse, and what it meant, so he could be wrong or right, I don’t know.

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Re: Role of Ulema/Shuyook/Scholars: Increased or Diminished?

^ And guys like him are running rampant. They really think in their delusional mind that they are "scholars" and I don't get how anyone can think that if they didn't go to a reputable place ex. Al Azhar, to study.

I would like to know the other folks everyone is following, ex . Nauman Ali Khan, etc, what exactly are their qualifications? Even if well intentioned, they may be misleading us in some translation or other, who knows?

The only American scholar I can say is legit, probably, is the white convert, Hamza Yusuf. He's a great speaker, and that shouldn't mislead anyone into thinking he's automatically correct (a problem I'm finding A LOT with American kids - they listen to the most well spoken scholar and immediately assume he's formally trained and versed in the Quran, history, language, etc). But he does quote the sites he has gone to in order to train and learn the Hadith, and his mastery of Arabic language is actually pretty solid.

But apart from him, everyone else is a pseudo-maulvi. Until and unless they POST THEIR QUALIFICATIONS on their websites and become transparent about where they learned their knowledge, I think it's utterly wreckless and academically irresponsible to have them speaking in our masjids, and invited to do speeches at conventions.

And fact is, the average man has no idea what their qualifications even ARE. They just see a beard and assume. Look at the pic above, everyone I know who knows this guy ASSUMED he is legit. Just because the length of his beard.

Google him. You'll see how they got hold of him and his behavior. He is now arrested.

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Re: Role of Ulema/Shuyook/Scholars: Increased or Diminished?

^ Nouman Ali Khan is not scholar. He learned Arabic and Quranic Arabic. He himself states that he is not going to discuss issues on Fiqh. He is public speaker.

He runs Bayyinha Institute where he teaches Arabic. His work on Quran and kinetics of verse is amazing. He is self studying .

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Re: Role of Ulema/Shuyook/Scholars: Increased or Diminished?

WHY DOESN'T HE GET FORMAL EDUCATION?

Why aren't these people being held to a standard? He's ONE guy and very talented, and an exception honestly. But he should set an example and go to Al Azhar and formally study and be scrutinized by professors who have mastered these areas. WHY don't we hold people up to this standard?

He may be one guy but for one Nauman Ali Khan there are 100 ignorants who are teaching the wrong things, have their own biases (especially about Westernization, Western cultures, women, gender relations, and politics). And no one is checking those biases, because guess what ? They weren't subject to grueling scrutiny by professors who are LEGIT in their studies in these areas.

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Re: Role of Ulema/Shuyook/Scholars: Increased or Diminished?

Here is the other problem. More educated muslims are slowly turning away from masjids and the muslim community at large. Reason - the increased suspicion towards "religious figures". In south florida, they took away a maulvi who teaches I think it was the Kendall masjid. An old Pakistani guy, never met him, but heard he was well respected. He was taking the masjid donations and sending them to frikking terrorist camps in FATA where his family is from. FBI busted him.

I don't even put donations in the masjid anymore. It goes only to Eidhi because he's the only one that I think FBI has thoroughly investigated and he's still allowed to keep his NYC office open.

So where is the transparency? How many "scholars" of these mosques have open transparency of where donations go? Of how the money is spent?

Incredible was a situation somewhere in Texas I think of a mosque that built a huge indoor basketball court...that NO ONE USES.

Like what "scholars" are these? What is their IQ???

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Re: Role of Ulema/Shuyook/Scholars: Increased or Diminished?

And how many of them are on Mossad/CIA/Saudi wahabbi payroll? Do you know who's working for them? Do we really know? There are just whispers that some of the "maulvis" doing their "Imamat" in NWFP areas are actually Mossad agents, and they do 6 month tours, and then go back to Israel.

Does anyone know who is involved?

So why are we surprised that people no longer trust "scholars"?? And the good ones? Where are they? Being shot or are quiet out of fear. In Karachi, some years back a few well educated scholars were killed. Wonder why.

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Re: Role of Ulema/Shuyook/Scholars: Increased or Diminished?

NAK... I watched his meeting with Tariq Jameel. He discussed the role of Ulema and American Society.
I agree formal education is needed.

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Re: Role of Ulema/Shuyook/Scholars: Increased or Diminished?

^ Just like how people like you and me go and get our careers. I trained 10 years to do what I do. If I can do it, so can they.

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Re: Role of Ulema/Shuyook/Scholars: Increased or Diminished?

Sorry about my earlier post.

You and I may not have families to feed, or the need for steady income for expenses which are not our own, but what about those who do?

I'm not discouraging the idea, in fact, I think that is precisely what is needed for ourselves and coming generation that we should have renewed sense of scholarship from traditional and known sources of learning. But we need to be aware of steps to take to achieve that, whether that means saving enough to leave for misc. needs while traveling abroad for study sake, or doing a job+study in a country where the sources of knowledge are thriving (Al Azhar was mentioned, and it is a very reputable institution).