Is the religious community doing enough in north anerica, Europe, and Australia to set up proposals?
The same community doesn’t want guys and girls talking openly. Gossip is high if a girl is caught talking to non muslim guys. Much religious advice that even unnecessary banter between singles is haraam.
Yet we have so many guys openly marrying nonmuslims under the guise that it’s allowed (often their marriages don’t even produce muslim kids).
So what is the religious community doing for the muslim youth to enhance families meeting and rishtas being exchanged? Not every masjid has a matrimonial service (most don’t offer social services).
Apart from gossiping about us and ruining reputations and the occasional rishta Aunty that ends up insulting more than helping, what formal help is there that’s advertised to all Muslims?
Including the non-hijabs and non-bearded because we all know of groups, MSA’s and masjid administrations that chase you away if you don’t wear a beard or hijab.
ISNa offers one event for the whole year. Same with ICNA. APPNA is a non religious entity so let’s not count them but they add about 3-4 banquets for the year.
Okay somebody answer this question for me. I don’t intend to be rude to anyone who married a non-Muslim. I am just looking for clarification.
I know the Prophet SAWS married women who were among the People of the Book. Did his wives convert to Islam then? Were they active followers of Islam?
Muslim men are allowed to marry Christian/Jewish women…but is it on the condition that they convert to Islam…or are they allowed to maintain their religions even after marriage?
If the non-Muslim women that the Prophet SAWS married converted to Islam …or even if they sincerely agreed to practice Islam prior to marrying him…then is the Sunnah being adhered to in modern times if the wife has no real interest in desire in practicing Islam and isn’t even a practicing Christian or Jew herself?
In general I doubt masjid have match making services. Not all masjids have someone (legally) qualified to perform marriages. The administrators for the most part are volunteers and having these extra services would incur expenses that may or may not have sufficient demand. Because matchmaking is mostly managed through networking and any imam would refer you to someone they know who is already doing this type of thing.
Though that’s generally what I’ve seen it could vary from one masjid to the next. You could always check if any one you might be connected to has such a service.
Ok, so then what is the point of so much excess segregation in institutions that are MEANT to bring the muslim community together? Seems like the muslim community is becoming increasingly fragmented in western society, with masjids simply being used only for prayer or halaqa purposes. And that too, any lectures/learning sessions are completely segregated (mostly in most masjids, they do tolerate mixed gender sessions for little kids).
Like literally the only muslim guys I know in the area where I grew up are the little boys I went to Islamic sunday school with when I was 9. I have no idea where those guys are now, and whereas we girls continued being brought to school, these boys dropped out by middle school; they would rather play video games than come to the masjid.
So, does the society get to pass comments on us, if society is not making attempts on bringing the two genders together for marriage. When something halaal has been made so difficult, because venues don’t exist to meet, then does the masjid have any right to talk about gender relations? Do muslims who are more observant have any right to talk about dating, etc, when they aren’t doing anything to bring people together in marriage?
It just makes no sense to me. Go to a church, synagogue, temple. Idea of marriage is obvious and people are very welcoming of it, and they want to help you find someone. There is no shame in going to these places to look for a spouse.
Talk about a masjid and everyone gets upset, saying the only reason for a masjid is namaz, but honestly masjids used to be community centers in early Islam. This is how people met and networked, and this is how people met their spouses.
I thought there is an open letter that Muhammad (SAW) wrote to Christians stating that if a Christian marries one of his muslims, that she has every right to attend her own Church, etc.
But in excess - this is a problem. If you wont let muslim women marry outside the faith, or date to meet other guys, and on the other hand you wont introduce them to muslim men, and it’s very easy for muslim men to marry non-muslims because they’re surrounded by non-muslims all the time, and are bound to fall in love with someone, then how is that fair to the female muslim congregation??
There should be matrimonial services in every masjid, and mixers for the youth so they can meet up and connect. At this point, there are websites performing these services, and it makes it easy for jokesters to take advantage.
This week alone from muslim websites, I’ve been hit up for internet/phone sex about 3x.
Again, how is this fair to muslim women? To deny them opportunities to meet the opposite sex? Not everyone’s parents have 200 friends and throw weekend dawats. We threw one dawat ever for my graduation, it cost about 3000-4000 dollars - venue and food, nothing fancy. Not everyone has money pouring out of their behinds that they can host huge gatherings of people.
So masjids serve a central meeting point. Why are they not getting involved in the marriage process? They want to dictate every aspect of my life every Friday, so why not help us out?
PCG to be honest it depends on the mosque you attend. The mosque I used to attend was very close minded. And the people weren’t very friendly either. So I found another mosque. There are a variety of different ethnicities in this mosque and the imams are young and in tune with the youth of today. The khutbahs are relevant to life now. They have plenty of social events going on all the time. And it’s perfect for Muslims to socialise and build contacts. There isn’t a matrimony service but in the year that I’ve come here over already heard of four marriages that have alhumdulillah already taken place through people meeting each other at the mosque. If your mosque is stuck in the middle ages either you need to get people together to change its attitude or find a better mosque. In time I honestly believe these backward mosques will just die out. They are mainly run by the older generation who refuse to acknowledge the younger generation and think that how they lived life can still be applied now. I made the decision to move mosque because I have a year old baby girl and I want the mosque to be a central part of her life. I want her to love going there and feeling as though she is part of a Muslim community. I want her to learn about Islam not just from me but from the mosque too and to make Muslim friends not just school friends.
^Thank you; I appreciate that. About the last answer…the new testament is more lax than the old testament and the time that the Prophet SAWS lived in was one of jahilliya. So, I wonder if even the Christians of his time were also lax about the prohibitions in the Old Testament (as are modern Christians) which are similar to the principals in Islam.
Does the Quran state that it’s lawful to marry the “believing women” from among the People of the Book? If so, is “believing” a subject of debate? Would “believing” refer to the early, early, early Christians who did not attribute divinity to Jesus? Islam forbids marrying of polytheists. So, if modern day Christian women believe that Jesus is son of God (astagfirullah)…and if they are not willing to let go of that belief (as did the Prophet SAWS’s wives)…then do they not fall into the category of Polytheists and then wouldn 't they be off limits for marriage?
If the Prophet SAWS’s originally non-Muslim wives were active practicers of Islam than this needs to be kept in mind by Muslim guys that are contemplating marrying a non-Muslim woman…that it’a not as simple as just thinking “oh it’s allowed.” That to think “it’s more important to raise my kids as good human beings”…well…Islam never said make a choice between being a hood human being and praying and fasting…it commands to have good character and adhere to ritual obligations..and the latter serve in developing good character. To pick the "good character " over ritual ibadat is basically picking one command of Allaj and rejecting the other. **And yes I know that we’re all guilty of picking and choosing instead of following ever command… But call a spade a spade right? It’s unseting for us to admit that we gave priority to something over Allah’s commands… It takes courage to admit it.
Marriage between two Muslims is hard enough. Marriage between a Muslim who wants to establish Islam in his home and who willingly choses to marry a non-Muslim who is not on the same page…will be met with more challenges. It’s bot an impossible marriage, but it can be harder. I once made the point that “it’s not impossible, but understandably more challenging” and a member went ballistic in Life 1.
There’s nothing wrong with a masjid segregating their events by gender. In fact that’s how it is supposed to be. I’d say you’re putting too much expectation in finding someone through the masjid by just thinking that you’d easily find someone that way.
While the masjids have been particular about gender segregation, MSAs back in the day weren’t. According to what I saw, this led to several illicit relationships and very few marriages (from amongst that group) if any. In fact I can’t think of a single couple who got married through that type of arrangement.
The girls all seemed to have the understanding that when it came to marriage, they’d marry someone older than the age group they were interacting with in that group and wouldn’t consider marriage with those guys.
Have you tried mentioning to an imam that you’re looking? Not you personally but has your father tried it? Most people from what I’ve seen are doing their rishta searching through their own networking. Sometimes this includes regular masjid attendees but wouldn’t warrant a full-time rishta department run by the masjid.
I think the gender segregation thing isn’t considered something that is hampering the rishta situation because the mothers are looking for girls and meeting other mothers. It’s difficult if someone has a mother who is reticent. I do feel like masjid should be more proactive though.
A local religious center tried match making and failed abysmally. They had to send out a note that just because the girls who attend their seminars are religious does not mean they’re doormats or would only be suitable to be locked in the kitchen. Like at least they tried and after trial and error I’m sure they found a way to make better matches.
Rishta Finding and Match Making is a seriously complex business, in this day and age. I think PCG has a very good understanding of what is right and wrong about it … The problem with masajid is that the institution of the masjid tends to attract a certain type of person. I actually think a much more radical approach should be taken. Something like a rishta farm !!!
Where families go to a resort specially set-up and designed for people seeking a rishta for their close relative. The family members who are actively available should have a badge to distinguish them from their accompanying mahrams. So it becomes a family weekend or holiday scene … where the families can intermingle and the available people can “click” within Islamic limits. Of course guards and security need to be present to prevent hanky panky behaviour. But also in the resort they should have rishta seeking classes and advice classes about expectations and what should be done and what should not be done in the Islamic sense. This will actually help the whole family optimise their approach and it will help eliminate some of the bad practices that our families have gotten into.
Then there is always the option of going to international set-ups too … for the same purpose. Of course that will only be available to a certain class of people, but that is where the problem currently lies … Poorer people have no problem in getting married and the ultra rich don’t either … It is the upper working and lower middle classes - i.e. the majority of us where the problem actually exists.
So if anyone comes up with this facility — remember you heard it here first.
Yup. Women would sign up for courses at my khala’s religious center just to look at girls for their boys. And then they would start enquiries with the teachers and prayer leaders. It was all fine and well (and the school was quite happy to oblige) until their questions got so obvious and gross that the school people were contemplating saying they did not provide match making services until they realised how unfair it was to girls who had no other opportunities. People just equate religious with dumb and docile these days.
^ I think where ‘docility’ or ‘softness’ is present and being made available there is no harm for them to be sought by people who are looking for them. The modern wind is intolerant towards people searching for “docile” girls and in turn intolerant with girls being “docile” - modernity wants them not to be docile. But in my view … alpha women have a harder time getting married and sustaining marriage.
If marriage is important then some level of balance by incorporating “docility” should be seen as a noble thing and not a backward or stupid thing, likewise people who seek out “docility” should not necessarily be viewed by others as being backward or seeking out a slave or servant girl … Some people are merely seeking a non-aggressive partner for their sons and they never have a pre-conceived plan to oppress their DILs.
So it is bad practice to rule out the people who seek out “docile” girls … rather they should find out … through closer interaction - why they seek out “docile” girls. In this regard it is actually a sensible thing to seek out “docile” girls among the “religious” … I have heard of some behaviour of alpha religious women and they can be quite irreligious when it comes to rishtas and other social interactions. A sign of piety is to be humble and softly spoken in both men and women.
^ What the heck? I think she’s saying people were seeking out these girls attending religious classes/groups, because the assumption was “oh these must be easy mold-able girls”. The minute any of them expressed they were smart, had any career aspirations, personal goals apart from cooking for their sons, they were probably looked over.
I can see that’s what happened in my case. Most of the girls who initially got married in my “biradari” were the girls who didn’t go to college. That’s how bad it is in my community. To fetch a good marriage, I’d have to time travel back to 17, and decide to flunk out in high school, and not go to college.
fair observations PCG … i know USA muslim social culture very well and agree with you.
why cant muslim girls go to online shadi forums? are they completely useless? did you try that? isna/icna sessions are piece of crap and total wastage of time plus frequency of those events is so low. and what about some muslim matchmakers in big USA cities?
at end of the day, it is your life. your no 1 priority shd not be to find a Muslim guy but to find a guy who is of good character. someone who is a good human being and who loves you and your family and who wants to be with you. when you will be an older single woman, this so called Muslim community will do nothing but feel sorry for you.
so if you find a guy who wants to marry you genuinely and if he is not a muslim, it is OK…after-all who gave him birth to a non muslim family? plus you can ask him to convert..many times they do as religion is not so important for them.
I am not a scholar by any means but i feel that Allah subhan Tallah is very merciful and understands social necessities. Muslim scholars who do nothing but to create more problems for Muslims shd come up with new guidelines for Muslims who are a vast minority in western societies. For example, declare muslim guys marrying non Muslims haram because that decreases TAM (total available market) for muslim girls or let muslim girls marry non muslim guys as well.
online shadi forums are completely useless, because alot of people see that as a bad thing. I don’t know why, but that is what I have observed. and plus, most of those guys that are on there use it as a means to um, know someone just for a night, if you know what I mean, NOT longterm/marriage