Bush is a jackass, a hypocrite and sleaze ball. Though I respect the republican philosophy of smaller government and personal freedom, I just don’t like the people who have taken up the responsibility to hold that philosophy.
Nehru was an average politician, a playboy of Clinton’s league and got in politics on family connections, though he was mainly responsible for India what it is today. Without his strong emphasis on secular democracy, India would have been a basket case. His economic policies were a dump but still better than Gandhi’s self sufficiency. He was partly responsible for partition but I don’t think he participated in it intentionally. I wouldn’t hesitate calling him a ‘great man’ or Gandhi for that matter.
The politically vocal Indians that I know (which aren’t that many, other than those on gupshup) consider Jinnah a hawk who was a sell out to British in dividing India and anything but secular. My take on Jinnah is very different but who cares.
The point is, political leaders come and go, though (their) political ideas stick with us for long. So, while I don’t care if Indians consider Jinnah a ‘sellout’ or a ‘great man’ .. what matters is that are they ready to look beyond partition, to the future and take Pakistan for what it is … a (politically volatile, highly energetic, overly militarized but somewhat similar) neighbor?
YOu forgot insignificant AJ...in the future... Pakistan's significane will depend on whether it chooses to emulate)west or east. ( we are talking a couple of thousands miles here or there)
Bhaijaan, that's another problem with Indians. They try to ignore Pakistan but can't get enough of talking about it. You can claim to be the poster child for that segment.
You spoke about the future bhaijaan...are you the poster child of anachronisms? If so..look only 100 miles from Pakistan's western border and see your future.
Interesting actually. A collegue of mine who will be joining Paklinks pretty soon commented about this stuckupness attitude regarding (and he generalized) all muslims. He also mentioned China and Canada. I just gave him the URL and told him happy posting. His comments were about “I am always right” “We will/used to rule the world” and he was quite angered/upset and my favorite “perplexed” regarding these attitudes.
AhmadJee: Why do people crowd behind a religious leader for political purposes. Example Mullah Omar.
So what I am trying to say is in Afghanistan/talibans case they(people) chose Omar to be their Amir-ul-momaneen. Why?
^ exactly AJ. Now, can we make this leap to praising or disrespecting prophets who bring politics into spiritualism? Especially the dead ones..I heard one can get throat slashed for disrespecting those sorts of dead people.
Sure Ahmadjee Bhaijan, it is easy said living outside of Pakistan. Try disrespecting Jinnah in Pakistan and see what they do to you (have you seen a whole goat roast - well, picture yourself on a big Seekh.). In India, it is fashionable to ridicule Gandhi. You can’t compare the political environment of the two countries that are on the opposing side of the spectrum – one open, innovative, progressive and modern, while the other closed, retreating, and mediocre. Perhaps it has a lot to learn from its neighbor.
PD & Verizon Bhaijaan, I was trying to stay away from religious leaders and ideas as I don't want colorful scripture being copy pasted. NYC people bring enough color to my threads.
Don’t go overboard in praising the “open, innovative, progressive and modern” India. Yeah, so you may be able to redicule Gandhi (cz its fashionable), but god forbid, if you praise Jinnah, at best you will be out of job, at worst, you will be on a big seekh.
Why would anyone praise Jinnah in India Faisal? Religious factionalism is not a virtue that is much liked there. The democratic traditions oust almost anyone who plays the religion card to get in. Look at BJP, they thought they would rule for a millenium. Suckas got served..by the indian public.
I am not sure if anyone outside of Pakistan would think that Jinnah is to be praised.
Pindi, the gap between the two nations is huge. It’s night and day. We have been ruled by dictators more than half of our country’s life, and we thought we were getting an Islamic Republic. However, we like to live in denial, can your country beat that?
All we know is in Washington Square Park in NYC..heart of West Village and NYU..there is a statue of Gandhi. Like him or hate him, his impression on the world goes beyond the Indian subcontinent.
It is the legacy of political leaders that you correctly mentioned above is the driver which would be liked or disliked. Unfortunately, that legacy is a result of actionable policies which define their leadership. It is always a basket analysis.
Madhanee, India created it's own dictators in terms of an immense socialistic gov't and the resulting infrastructure that kept Indians down for 37 years of the republic's existence. It took a balance of payment crises to shake these shackles off. the future is bright. Did you read Friedman today?
Yeah, man, he is writing too much on Bangalore, I am a little bored with that. I want him to write about Bollywood and the birthplace of my spiritual Guruji, Delhi.
Pindi, can I ask you a question? Who puts Bang in Banalore?
PD bhaijaan, while it is true that Gandhi single handedly changed the political spectrum of India from demands like 'give us rights as an Englishman & don't leave us to the other colonialists like French' to 'give us Freedom and get out' .. It is also true that he was the first to introduce religious iconism & fervor to a national level in Indian politics. I don't think he did it intentionally, perhaps in his mind Hindu icons and Indian nationalism were one in the same. Jinnah's occasional experimentation with religious factionalism was very late in the game and only on his advisors persistence.
Its not a question of “why”. Its a matter of openess in the society. While you want to ride the high horse of praising India for its openess, you have to take in the fact that in India, people are ostracized and forced to resign for speaking their mind.
Here are a couple of quotes for you. This is what free speech is.
The symbol of your country cannot just be a flag. The symbol also has to be one of its citizens exercising his right to burn that flag in protest. Now show me that, defend that, celebrate that in your classrooms. Then you can stand up and sing about the land of the free.
You want free speech? Let’s see you acknowledge a man whose words make your blood boil who is standing center stage advocating at the top of his lungs that which you would spend a lifetime opposing at the top of yours.
attitude regarding (and he generalized) all muslims. He also mentioned China and Canada. I just gave him the URL and told him happy posting. His comments were about “I am always right” “We will/used to rule the world” and he was quite angered/upset and my favorite “perplexed” regarding these attitudes.