Re: Respecting other religions - difference amongst muslims
Of course you can. But that statement does not imply anywhere that you are not TOLERATING anyone else believing differently. It is simply a declaration of what you believe.
For example. I can say, "I like the color red, and only the color red".
If I say this to you, am I telling you that you should also like the color red?
No.
But if I say "Anyone who doesn't like the color red is just wrong and that's unacceptable" - what does that statement tell you?
That tells you, that I don't think you should like any color BUT red.
Notice the difference?
According to your theory we cannot recite at least half of ayahs of Qur'an,
nor we can say Adhan in public.
I think we're all trying to say the same thing, which is why I say, this problem comes up in every religion.
The difference comes in regarding HOW you say it. If you are belittling people who don't believe the way you do, like Hareem did with her statement, then that is wrong and arrogant.
Re: Respecting other religions - difference amongst muslims
It sounds better and nicer when you say that you're welcoming anyone who wants to believe with open arms. Why do you people persist in wanting to say things in a way that scares people away?
By you saying that its "Not OK for YOU to believe in anything other than Islam" - how have you peacefully invited someone to Islam? That's not a peaceful way to put it, and I dare you to say that to anyone's face. If you live abroad anywhere in the Western World, they will have you in jail or fine you for harassment. I hope you realize that.
I don't think this is really harassment. Well we respect other religions but Islam is what we believe in. If someone takes this as harassment then I guess that person is too insecure about themselves or/and their faith.
It is the same thing...as someone says "Not Ok for Them to believe in anything other than Christianity". Now if I am too insecure about myself and my faith, only then I will take that as harassment.
Re: Respecting other religions - difference amongst muslims
[quote]
One day I was given a Christmas present not knowing what was in there from a previous employer. It was given to everyone. Inside I found a christmas pudding full of alcohol and a bottle of wine.
[/quote]
I think it was a jewish conspiracy to belittle the Islamic faith. Did you notice that no jewish people turned up for work when the presents were distributed.
I think psyah you did a great job by not making an issue about it. Just think for a while and imagine what would have happened if some of your esteemed friends would have got such a gift.
Re: Respecting other religions - difference amongst muslims
[quote]
*Originally quoted by Lusi *
I don't think this is really harassment. Well we respect other religions but Islam is what we believe in. If someone takes this as harassment then I guess that person is too insecure about themselves or/and their faith.
[/quote]
It is a fine line when you say that you respect other religions, but in the same breath insist that the rest of the world is going to hell since they dont believe in the same religion as you..
Re: Respecting other religions - difference amongst muslims
It is a fine line when you say that you respect other religions, but in the same breath insist that the rest of the world is going to hell since they dont believe in the same religion as you..
No, it doesn't says that rest of the world is going to hell nor does it means. It simply states that I respect your religion but this is what I believe in. Now if someone if someone wants to twist this simple statement, the can twist it in any direction, it is their headache.
Re: Respecting other religions - difference amongst muslims
It is a fine line when you say that you respect other religions, but in the same breath insist that the rest of the world is going to hell since they dont believe in the same religion as you..
Peace simplyme
Muslims can never say this statement.
Muslims can only say this:
1) Following the guidelines in the Qur'an and with the Mercy of God we can enter paradise.
2) Any Monotheist will eventually enter paradise, be it directly or after serving time in Hell.
Note: Muslims can therefore not say that "we are saved and you are hell bound" because simply we don't know!
It is about what we aught to do out of our natural obligation as creatures of God ... it is to obey Him and worship Him Alone.
Re: Respecting other religions - difference amongst muslims
I think it was a jewish conspiracy to belittle the Islamic faith. Did you notice that no jewish people turned up for work when the presents were distributed.
I think psyah you did a great job by not making an issue about it. Just think for a while and imagine what would have happened if some of your esteemed friends would have got such a gift.
Peace simplyme
I don't know what they wanted me to do with the booze. They knew full well that I can't consume it. And they didn't ask me what I did with it either.
It was very enjoyable throwing away the intoxicants.
I'm not sure about the Jewish aspect of your argument and about my friends, umm yep I guess some of them will have raised a fuss over it. That would not have served any purpose had I done that. It would seem that I want a better Christmas present, but then I don't celebrate it so why raise the fuss or it would appear as though I am getting annoyed and if it was done intentionally then they would get their enjoyment.
Some of the employees asked what I did with the present and I told them. With their faces in horror they retorted me for not giving it to them. I replied that I didn't want to be responsible for the killing of their brain cells.
Re: Respecting other religions - difference amongst muslims
[quote]
Originally posted by ** psyah **
I don't know what they wanted me to do with the booze. They knew full well that I can't consume it. And they didn't ask me what I did with it either.
[/quote]
In many organisations, all employees are given the same gift on a particular festival. It becomes cheaper for them to buy a large quantity. Hence there would not be much thought given to individual tastes. In my company, sweets are distributed on Deepavali. Some diabetics raised a hue and cry about the same. They were asked to take a hike. It is just economies of scale. Hence you did the right thing by not making a mountain out of a molehill.
Re: Respecting other religions - difference amongst muslims
I am curious what good do you do for scheduled casts being a Brahmin?
Not sure what you mean? Are you asking me if I help scheduled caste people? Of course. I help people in need - regardless of their castes. As to specific things I do - I donate money to causes such as eye treatment camps, food donations, funding college education for some brilliant kids whose parents found the going tough (I think two of these are Harijans, but I never ask). I also support a poor girl in Peru. I should and will do more.
I am not saying above in answer to your question or to show of proudly how much good I do. Iam hoping someone will pick up on one or more of these avenues and will also do some similar good. Iconoclast, i hope you will too!
If a Brahmin boy is brilliant in math but can't afford a book, it is no different from a Harijan boy with the same problem. In both cases, it is the whole world that loses if that boy is not provided that book.
Re: Respecting other religions - difference amongst muslims
could it be that the lower casts are taking revenge?
It would seem so from the outside. But I think it is more due to the fact that the politicians really believe that population demographics based proportionate quota system is fair.
The irony is this is simply making the Brahmin kids work harder and think smarter! Chalk it to good karma.
Re: Respecting other religions - difference amongst muslims
This is a foredrawn conclusion on your own assumption, so it has no basis for discussion until the points I have mentioned are cleared first. Your initial assumptions must be substantiated before we can validate the conclusions derived from them.
Are you willing to discuss further?
I hope you will go through this thread to date which by itself demonstrates the two diametrically opposite thoughts amongst muslims about non-muslims.
If you dismiss my observation as assumption, how can you expect a discussion?
Re: Respecting other religions - difference amongst muslims
I think we're all trying to say the same thing, which is why I say, this problem comes up in every religion.
The difference comes in regarding HOW you say it. If you are belittling people who don't believe the way you do, like Hareem did with her statement, then that is wrong and arrogant.
This is true. I have notices people take childish pleasure (or worse) in such things as capitalizing allah and lower casing Sri Rama in the same sentence! (yeah I know - I am just demonstrating it).
How you say it is what you are saying (just like perception is the truth)
Re: Respecting other religions - difference amongst muslims
The contradictions in this thread are amazing. Why can't. there be a simple acceptance?
It is either Quran says (a) it is ok to respect other religions oR (b) Quran says it is not.
If (a) is true then making statements such as 'there is no god other than Allah' is to be banned because it is disrespectful to other religions and therefore people who believe Quran as the word of God shoulD not do that.
If (B) is true then sure you can make such statements but what others say about islam being a 'tolerant" religion will have been proven false.
Why can't somebody who know Quran simply clarify which of the two above is really in Quran?
Re: Respecting other religions - difference amongst muslims
Why can't somebody who know Quran simply clarify which of the two above is really in Quran?
Be careful what you wish for... you may get more than you were willing. I do not want to make a decision for the masses here, but the Quran has never stated "Laa Ilaaha illa Allah" (There is no God but Allah) ... rather, "Hua Allahu allazee laa Ilaaha illa Hoo" (That is The One Truely Divine, The Being except Which there is no God)... Please notice the subtle difference in the message there: The latter is pluralistic, in that all humanity, one way or another, calls out to the same Higher Being.
Allah was not used as a proper noun, but to describe The Truely Divine Being as God Alone. This is not my opinion but was rather translated by the SRCN/MHGR Ibn Hadid of the pre-Umayyad era. He translated the invokation bismi-llahi as "εν ονοματι του θεον" (with the mention of The God) in PERF 558. I hope everyone knows what I am talking about; if not, please google it. Allah would then IMO be considered as The Being that all humanity turns to...
From what I understand, the message in the Quran conveys to all people that they ought to realize that their traditions and dogmas are holding them back. It asks people to reach out to God directly, without the clergy, without the customs/invokations, and without any pressure, to realize that there is only One (and the Same) Entity (not many/different entities) who created this and other universes, Who is at such a fundamental level that nothing is more fundamental, and That Being is hence incomparable to anything, and beyond the need of any worship or pleasing, that This Being has a set of laws that govern the universe, and those laws have been made accessible to man so he may seek the answer for himself. Ironic how we ourselves disregard that sometimes.
Re: Respecting other religions - difference amongst muslims
^ Hypnotix2000: that is amazing! Reading what you quote as having been stated in Quran is almost verbatim from Sri Bhagvat Gita. Read the 1st two sentences of your 3rd para and then read this from Sri Bhagvat Gita:
They, the ignorant ones, proclaim
Their flow’ry speech, O Pritha’s son,
Delighting in the Veda’s word,
And saying: “There is nothing else.” (42)
Filled with desires, intent on heav’n,
Off’ring rebirth as actions’ fruit,
Addicted to so many rites,
Whose goal is enjoyment and pow’r.
(this is from Geethopadesam where Lord Sri Krishna is explaining to Arjuna who feels it is wrong to fight against his own teacher and relatives who are lined up as enemies)
Re: Respecting other religions - difference amongst muslims
Hello StirCrasy
This is indeed very good observation. The Gita, and Vedas in general, have been highly inflienced by the Avista of the religion of light: Zoroastrianism. As such, I have no doubt that its teachings would have many similarities to Semitic faiths which share this common origin.
Re: Respecting other religions - difference amongst muslims
PCG
Thanks to Allah that I don't have to learn about tolerance and patience from you, I have book of Allah that tells us how to call non muslims to the true path of success in this life and the hereafter.
Please do me a favour and do not show me true path. I am doing just fine on the path I am on.
Re: Respecting other religions - difference amongst muslims
which muslim tells that it is okay to acknowledge God in terms of rama and krishna?...They don't exist. If they do, they are very very less.
Muslims are about 40% in my Home town and they celebrate , Sri Rama navami, ganesh chaviti, and on our New year Day (Ugadhi) they stand in temple queue for darshan, i will post the pictures of the women wearing burqa and standing in temple 'Q' for Darshan (i have to search for photos in old news papers)