As a proud Hindu Brahmin that tries to live life honestly and doing as much good to others as I can, I relish thrive and celebrate the reassurance of morality that my religion provides me. This in spite of the different ways we are attacked by others who, whether they understand Sanathana Dharma or not, do not hesitate to latch on to the caste discrimination bandwagon. Little do they realize that most Brahmins are very poor, that they form less than 5% of the population and are systematically by law excluded from competing for somewhere between 40 to 90% of professional college seats, jobs, low-interest loans etc.
Anyway, I have always been curious about an aspect of Islam. How is it that there seems to be an almost even split between those muslims that think it is ok to co-exist and respect other religions and those who think that to be a ‘good’ muslim one has to try and discourage other religions; one group that thinks Allah is their God and it is ok for others to think of God in other terms such as Sri Rama, Sri Krishna…and the second group that think even acknowledging the others is incompatible for a muslim.
And then the final irony - how can half the muslim population accept the other half as muslims in spite of these fundamental differences but cannot extend the same courtesy to the rest of the population?
Re: Respecting other religions - difference amongst muslims
And then the final irony - how can half the muslim population **accept the other half as muslims **in spite of these fundamental differences but cannot extend the same courtesy to the rest of the population?
says who? :D
BTW, such phenomena I believe exists in all religions.
Re: Respecting other religions - difference amongst muslims
As a proud Hindu Brahmin that tries to live life honestly and doing as much good to others as I can, I relish thrive and celebrate the reassurance of morality that my religion provides me. This in spite of the different ways we are attacked by others who, whether they understand Sanathana Dharma or not, do not hesitate to latch on to the caste discrimination bandwagon. Little do they realize that most Brahmins are very poor, that they form less than 5% of the population and are systematically by law excluded from competing for somewhere between 40 to 90% of professional college seats, jobs, low-interest loans etc.
Anyway, I have always been curious about an aspect of Islam. How is it that there seems to be an almost even split between those muslims that think it is ok to co-exist and respect other religions and those who think that to be a 'good' muslim one has to try and discourage other religions; one group that thinks Allah is their God and it is ok for others to think of God in other terms such as Sri Rama, Sri Krishna...and the second group that think even acknowledging the others is incompatible for a muslim.
And then the final irony - how can half the muslim population accept the other half as muslims in spite of these fundamental differences but cannot extend the same courtesy to the rest of the population?
What do you mean by " to be a 'good' muslim one has to try and discourage other religions", please explain a bit more?
I don't know any muslim who thinks that it is ok for anyone to worship anyone other than God.
Re: Respecting other religions - difference amongst muslims
Anyway, I have always been curious about an aspect of Islam. How is it that there seems to be an almost even split between those muslims that think it is ok to co-exist and respect other religions and those who think that to be a 'good' muslim one has to try and discourage other religions; one group that thinks Allah is their God and it is ok for others to think of God in other terms such as Sri Rama, Sri Krishna...and the second group that think even acknowledging the others is incompatible for a muslim.
And then the final irony - how can half the muslim population accept the other half as muslims in spite of these fundamental differences but cannot extend the same courtesy to the rest of the population?
Peace StirCrasy
Shah Rukh Khan and his crowd versus Dr Zakir Naik and his crowd no doubt. Curious indeed!
I think you need to read up on Aqeedah and the reason for it.
Re: Respecting other religions - difference amongst muslims
Anyway, I have always been curious about an aspect of Islam. How is it that there seems to be an almost even split between those muslims that think it is ok to co-exist and respect other religions and those who think that to be a 'good' muslim one has to try and discourage other religions; one group that thinks Allah is their God and it is ok for others to think of God in other terms such as Sri Rama, Sri Krishna...and the second group that think even acknowledging the others is incompatible for a muslim.
which muslim tells that it is okay to acknowledge God in terms of rama and krishna?...They don't exist. If they do, they are very very less.
Re: Respecting other religions - difference amongst muslims
What do you mean by " to be a 'good' muslim one has to try and discourage other religions", please explain a bit more?
I don't know any muslim who thinks that it is ok for anyone to worship anyone other than God.
THIS precisely is the problem.
Lets say, for argument's sake that you think its not ok for someone to worship anyone other than God, or not worship God at all.
You think its "not ok". What does that MEAN? What does that translate to? What are you going to do? Go up to them and tell them its "not ok"? Are you going to force them to worship God?
Saying its "not ok" reeks of intolerance, and this is precisely the problem with you folks. Why can't you be more tolerant and peaceful in your methods?
Instead of saying "Its NOT OK for you to reject God"...why can you not say "I welcome anyone wanting to believe with open arms?"
Its all about how you people word things and how you come across that represents muslims across the world. Please learn some English, and some etiquette and get some real world experience to understand how people work and how people think. That is the ONLY way you're going to effectively get people to open up to Islam. This attitude of "what you believe is NOT OK" is precisely what is NOT OK.
Re: Respecting other religions - difference amongst muslims
As a proud Hindu Brahmin that tries to live life honestly and doing as much good to others as I can, I relish thrive and celebrate the reassurance of morality that my religion provides me. This in spite of the different ways we are attacked by others who, whether they understand Sanathana Dharma or not, do not hesitate to latch on to the caste discrimination bandwagon. Little do they realize that most Brahmins are very poor, that they form less than 5% of the population and are systematically by law excluded from competing for somewhere between 40 to 90% of professional college seats, jobs, low-interest loans etc.
Anyway, I have always been curious about an aspect of Islam. How is it that there seems to be an almost even split between those muslims that think it is ok to co-exist and respect other religions and those who think that to be a 'good' muslim one has to try and discourage other religions; one group that thinks Allah is their God and it is ok for others to think of God in other terms such as Sri Rama, Sri Krishna...and the second group that think even acknowledging the others is incompatible for a muslim.
And then the final irony - how can half the muslim population accept the other half as muslims in spite of these fundamental differences but cannot extend the same courtesy to the rest of the population?
You will find this paradox in any group of followers of any faith. There are always those who are tolerant and those who are not tolerant.
The example of the Prophet and the instructions from the Quran should really suffice. There is no reason for any muslim to cause destruction to anyone who disbelieves in God as long as everyone is minding their own business and not harming anyone. If the method of intolerance were acceptable in Islam, you would have seen the Prophet using belligerant methods to spread Islam. Instead, his approach was to peacefully preach his message, and by writing to tribal leaders and making public speeches and by LISTENING to people - he won people over.
This part of Islamic history, sadly, is forgotten by those muslims who think its "Not Ok" for non-muslims to exist. They have the same thinking the Kuffar had towards the first muslims in Arabia.
Re: Respecting other religions - difference amongst muslims
As a proud Hindu Brahmin that tries to live life honestly and doing as much good to others as I can, I relish thrive and celebrate the reassurance of morality that my religion provides me. This in spite of the different ways we are attacked by others who, whether they understand Sanathana Dharma or not, do not hesitate to latch on to the caste discrimination bandwagon. Little do they realize that most Brahmins are very poor, that they form less than 5% of the population and are systematically by law excluded from competing for somewhere between 40 to 90% of professional college seats, jobs, low-interest loans etc.
Anyway, I have always been curious about an aspect of Islam. How is it that there seems to be an almost even split between those muslims that think it is ok to co-exist and respect other religions and those who think that to be a 'good' muslim one has to try and discourage other religions; one group that thinks Allah is their God and it is ok for others to think of God in other terms such as Sri Rama, Sri Krishna...and the second group that think even acknowledging the others is incompatible for a muslim.
And then the final irony - how can half the muslim population accept the other half as muslims in spite of these fundamental differences but cannot extend the same courtesy to the rest of the population?
Namaste Stir! you are most welcome to Join Islam's that half that says Live and let Live.............:)
Re: Respecting other religions - difference amongst muslims
THIS precisely is the problem.
Its all about how you people word things and how you come across that represents muslims across the world. Please learn some English, and some etiquette and get some real world experience to understand how people work and how people think. .
This is coming from a person who openly, falsely and without any shame accused me of putting up some picture's of hers when I had ABSOLOUTLEY nothing to do with it. ( I believe it was the pictures or something, right PCG ? ). And YOU are talking about Etiquette's ? eh ? Please give me a break; that word doesn't even sound right coming out of your mouth, let alone you preaching about it. And PCG, if you were born abroad or just because you can speak & write full proper english doesn't give you the right to bash others.
BTW StirCrasy, you got it all twisted. I wont go in details but in short, muslims have no problem with any other religion. We as muslims are taugt to give 'Daw'a'. It means giving the invitation to learn our religion. Don't confuse it with the kind of extremists who enforce it by power.
-Salman
Re: Respecting other religions - difference amongst muslims
You will find this paradox in any group of followers of any faith. There are always those who are tolerant and those who are not tolerant.
The example of the Prophet and the instructions from the Quran should really suffice. There is no reason for any muslim to cause destruction to anyone who disbelieves in God as long as everyone is minding their own business and not harming anyone. If the method of intolerance were acceptable in Islam, you would have seen the Prophet using belligerant methods to spread Islam. Instead, his approach was to peacefully preach his message, and by writing to tribal leaders and making public speeches and by LISTENING to people - he won people over.
This part of Islamic history, sadly, is forgotten by those muslims who think its "Not Ok" for non-muslims to exist. They have the same thinking the Kuffar had towards the first muslims in Arabia.
Peace Sister PyariCgudia
Does this mean we can't say La ilaha il Allah (There is none worthy of worship except Allah) ... any more?
Re: Respecting other religions - difference amongst muslims
[QUOTE]
As a proud Hindu Brahmin that tries to live life honestly and doing as much good to others as I can, I relish thrive and celebrate the reassurance of morality that my religion provides me. This in spite of the different ways we are attacked by others who, whether they understand Sanathana Dharma or not, do not hesitate to latch on to the caste discrimination bandwagon
[/QUOTE]
I am curious what good do you do for scheduled casts being a Brahmin?
Re: Respecting other religions - difference amongst muslims
PCG
Thanks to Allah that I don't have to learn about tolerance and patience from you, I have book of Allah that tells us how to call non muslims to the true path of success in this life and the hereafter.
Re: Respecting other religions - difference amongst muslims
Peace Sister PyariCgudia
Does this mean we can't say La ilaha il Allah (There is none worthy of worship except Allah) ... any more?
One's procalmation (or rejection of it) does not change the status of God... it is one thing to proclaim it as a direct (individual) covenant with the creator; it is another to make someone else proclaim it by force. It is interesting that the clause "laa ilaaha ilaa Allah" does not exist in the Quran. Rather, "hua Allahu, allazee laaa ilaaha ilaa huu". Please notice the subtlilty between the two.
Re: Respecting other religions - difference amongst muslims
The example of the Prophet and the instructions from the Quran should really suffice. There is no reason for any muslim to cause destruction to anyone who disbelieves in God as long as everyone is minding their own business and not harming anyone. If the method of intolerance were acceptable in Islam, you would have seen the Prophet using belligerant methods to spread Islam. Instead, his approach was to peacefully preach his message, and by writing to tribal leaders and making public speeches and by LISTENING to people - he won people over.
That's not the whole story. While in his early years as prophet most converts came from preaching, the spread of Islam didn't really begin in earnest until less tolerant methods were used. Starting with the accumulation of wealth and power through the raiding of Meccan caravans and the expulsion and killing of the Jewish tribes of Medina. After that it was victorious battles and forcing the remaining tribes to recognize the prophethood of Muhammad, accept Islam, and pay taxes. I don't think there was any tolerance for Jews or pagans. Perhaps in this establishment of Islam in Arabia is where some Muslims today draw their inspiration for disrespecting other faiths.
Re: Respecting other religions - difference amongst muslims
This is not about forcing anyone, pcg, hypnotix and seminole you got it wrong.....pork is forbidden, right? Now I as a muslim won't eat it nor I would like to have it for others but I won't force anyone to stop selling or eating it.
Similarly, I worship one God and I'd like others to do the same but if someone chooses not to believe in one God then I'd try to make him/her understand in the best manner with tolerance and wisdom, ofcourse I cannot force anyone to accept Islam bcoz Prophet(SAW) and Sahaba(ra) never did this.
Re: Respecting other religions - difference amongst muslims
Everyone knows the rapid expansion of Islam in the 7th and 8th centuries was do to military conquest. It is documented history, even Islamic history.
Yes, many conversions were due to the forceful personality of Muhammed, his wisdom and talents. But also with the lure of fortune for those who succeeded in conquest, for their own safety and the promise of salvation for those who died fighting for Islam. Caravan raids became full scale wars. Assasinations, beheadings, slavery, expulsions, ransoms, destruction of idols and 10,000 men armies all led to "conversion". I'm not making this up, it's out there for all to read. So what part do I (or recorded history) have wrong?
Re: Respecting other religions - difference amongst muslims
Everyone knows the rapid expansion of Islam in the 7th and 8th centuries was do to military conquest. It is documented history, even Islamic history.
Yes, many conversions were due to the forceful personality of Muhammed, his wisdom and talents. But also with the lure of fortune for those who succeeded in conquest, for their own safety and the promise of salvation for those who died fighting for Islam. Caravan raids became full scale wars. Assasinations, beheadings, slavery, expulsions, ransoms, destruction of idols and 10,000 men armies all led to "conversion". I'm not making this up, it's out there for all to read. So what part do I (or recorded history) have wrong?
Yes this is evident from the "reconstructed" personality of the prophet more than a century after his "reported" death, probably with a lot of details not being "documented" until the newly formed Abbasid kingdom.
Re: Respecting other religions - difference amongst muslims
Everyone knows the rapid expansion of Islam in the 7th and 8th centuries was do to military conquest. It is documented history, even Islamic history.
Yes, many conversions were due to the forceful personality of Muhammed, his wisdom and talents. But also with the lure of fortune for those who succeeded in conquest, for their own safety and the promise of salvation for those who died fighting for Islam. Caravan raids became full scale wars. Assasinations, beheadings, slavery, expulsions, ransoms, destruction of idols and 10,000 men armies all led to "conversion". I'm not making this up, it's out there for all to read. So what part do I (or recorded history) have wrong?
Re: Respecting other religions - difference amongst muslims
I very humbly beg to differ Hareem.
Peace hypnotix-2000
The reason why someone is a Muslim is not about accepting the kafir in his kufr, rather it is about accepting the kafir in his humanity and rejecting the kufr.
If we accept the kufr then we are committing it too.
The distinction that you mention in the Qur'an about the way the construct is worded is accurate and I applaud you in making that distinction. However, my point is not about tact, it is about what is required when we give dawah.
1) Best dawah is given by actions and conduct to others
2) When asked about beliefs we have to be accurate without stepping over egg-shells or else it would seem either we are apologetic about our beliefs or not convinced in them.
It is not considered forcing someone when we tell them what is in the Qur'an. That they aught to worship One God because it will save them. It is only considered forcing when we say this and then say 'we will make your life a misery if you don't accept that' in addition.
Respecting someones faith is by not ridiculing them to annoy, but you must agree that when Ibrahim (AS) destroyed the idols and placed the axe in the hands of the biggest ... that he was prompting them to think ... but some took offence to his manner. It was his (AS) intention that one should only dismantle anothers system if he provides a better one to go in it's place. Otherwise if he merely dismantles the system then this is as good as annoying for the purpose of annoying.
People should realise that if they are annoyed are they annoyed because we are making fun out of them or because there is some truth to what we are saying!