Respected journalist fingers zionist links to American government

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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Just as I predicted a few days back, Syria is also being targeted by the Israeli lobby currently running Washington. How could it not be?

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/story.jsp?story=332011

Bush is intent on painting allies and enemies in the Middle East as evil

By Robert Fisk
10 September 2002

Just as Americans are recovering from the harrowing television re-runs of the 11 September attacks, their President is going to launch the biggest reshaping of the Middle East since the British and French parcelled out the Arab lands after the 1914-18 war. When he addresses the United Nations on Thursday, George Bush will be threatening not only Iraq – which had absolutely nothing to do with the crimes against humanity in New York and Washington – but Syria, Iran and, by extension, Saudi Arabia and Egypt.

The Syrian Accountability Act, which accuses Damascus of supporting “terrorism”, will come into force as President Bush is speaking and will follow only days after the State Department branded the Lebanese Hizbollah as the “A-team of terrorism”, more dangerous even than Osama bin Laden’s al-Qa’ida. Like Iraq, the Hizbollah had nothing to do with the 11 September attacks – indeed, they were among the first to condemn them – but the White House now seems set on painting allies and enemies alike in the Middle East as a focus of evil.

Only The Nation among all of America’s newspapers and magazines has dared to point out that a large number of former Israeli lobbyists are now working within the American administration and the Bush plans for the Middle East – which could cause a massive political upheaval in the Arab world – fit perfectly into Israel’s own dreams for the region. The magazine listed Vice-President Dick Cheney – the arch-hawk in the US administration – and John Bolton, now under-secretary of state for Arms Control, with Douglas Feith, the third most senior executive at the Pentagon, as members of the advisory board of the pro-Israeli Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs (Jinsa) before joining the Bush government. Richard Perle, chairman of the Pentagon’s Defence Policy Board, is still an adviser on the institute, as is the former CIA director James Woolsey.

Michael Ledeen, described by The Nation as “one of the most influential ‘Jinsans’ in Washington” has been calling for “total war” against “terror” – with “regime change” for Syria, Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia and the Palestinian Authority. Mr Perle advises the Defence Secretary, Donald Rumsfeld – who refers to the West Bank and Gaza as “the so-called occupied territories” – and arranged the anti-Saudi “kernel of evil” briefing by Laurent Murawiec that so outraged the Saudi royal family last month. The Saudi regime may itself be in great danger as the princes of the House of Saud attempt to seize more power for themselves in advance of the depart-ure of the dying King Fahd.

Jinsa’s website says it exists to “inform the American defence and foreign affairs community about the important role Israel can and does play in bolstering democratic interests in the Mediterranean and the Middle East”. Next month, Michael Rubin of the right-wing and pro-Israeli American Enterprise Institute – who referred to the outgoing UN human rights commissioner Mary Robinson as an abettor of “terrorism” – joins the US Defence Department as an Iran-Iraq “expert”.

According to The Nation, Irving Moskovitz, the California bingo magnate who has funded settlements in the Israeli-occupied territories, is a donor as well as a director of Jinsa.

President Bush, of course, will not be talking about the influence of these pro-Israeli lobbyists when he presents his vision of the Middle East at the United Nations on Thursday.

Nor will he give the slightest indication that the region is, in the words of its own kings and dictators, a powder keg of resentment and anger. The tectonic plates of the Arab world are now grinding with increasing violence. Into this political earthquake zone, Mr Bush now seems intent on leading his country, with his loyal British ally.

Most of today’s Arab nations were fashioned out of the ruins of the Ottoman Empire by Britain and France in the aftermath of the First World War – and Palestinians still blame Britain today for supporting the formation of a Jewish homeland in Palestine.

Both European nations stationed tens of thousands of troops across the region, suppressing Arab revolts in Palestine, Syria and Lebanon – itself created by the French at the request of its Christian Maronite community. The whole colonial framework led to the loss of tens of thousands of lives before both the British and French retreated from the Middle East.

Now President Bush seems set on following the colonial powers into the region for another military and political adventure – ostensibly to spread “democracy” among those nations it most despises (Iraq, Palestine and Iran) but in fact more likely to increase American control of an increasingly anti-Western Arab world.

The Arabs themselves warn that this will lead to massive instability and widespread violence. The Israelis – and their allies in the US administration – are hell bent on the whole shebang.

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The difference this time is that Russia, Europe, Japan, America, Europe, China, India, Most of South America will align up against us if we are not careful. You read about the ultimatum Putin delivered to the Georgians over control of the Painiski Gorge and the Chechans. We better be carefull whether we get incited and by whom.

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Oh please. Fisk a respected jounalist? He is the ultimate "tell 'em what they want to hear" journalist, and his readers just love a good zionist conspiracy theory. Does it strike anybody as odd that the only Jew mentioned in the article is Pearle? Please explain to me why people think that Jews exeercise such complete control over an American government that is largely Christian? Oh, never mind, the US government is still probably guarding those aliens in the desert that they captured in the '60's.

As far as world support for Iraq, watch carefully. Putin is going to use the shadow of Iraq to go in and clean out the gorge once and for all. Bush of course will consider this an essential element of the war on terrorism, never mind that it is in Georgia. China is a net importer of oil, and they simply want to get the world economy growing again so that they can implement massive (really massive) public infrastructure such as bringing water half way across the continent to their eastern cities that are slowly draining or poluting almost all of the available fresh water. China will politely abstain. And Bush certainly has very little respect for the EU countries that will be the most shrill.

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well perle may be the only jew but is this true about other people being JINSA lobbyists? and if it is what does it mean? That people who were lobbying on behalf of some government are now in power.

as far as tell em what they like journalists, we find them in every publication and very media outlet. Take out the writer's personal views out, and look at the facts, and discuss the facts, dont discount teh facts just because the writer does not say what you like to hear :)

If the facts are incorrect then move on..if not well then its a diff story

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This is the problem, americans do not want to know or hear what the world thinks of them, and the majority of the world, and parts of europe actually do think like fisk.

I think it is the most logical and unbiased opinion of the situation in the world. or to be exact america/middle east.

It is about time americans realised that their government is not all that it is made to be. It too has other motives like all governments, and its aim is to furthur its own agenda rather than to help 'undemocratic regimes' become democracies, or provide food and water to the poor 3rd world, or even to alliviate the iraqi public from saddam. - this can be deduced by the fact that the US incited many iraqis to revolt against saddam and then provided no help (although they had promised it) - similarly the IMF sucks dry the 3rd worlds allready depleted resources - and by not taking serious the global warming issues etc ...

I just feel sorry for all those americans who blindly accept whatever is fed to them via CNN etc and having no critical analysis of their own... dont worry i understant.... if i was an american... i would think the same way.... thank god i am not!!

adios....

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Fraudz: *
well perle may be the only jew but is this true about other people being JINSA lobbyists? and if it is what does it mean? That people who were lobbying on behalf of some government are now in power.

as far as tell em what they like journalists, we find them in every publication and very media outlet. Take out the writer's personal views out, and look at the facts, and discuss the facts, dont discount teh facts just because the writer does not say what you like to hear :)

If the facts are incorrect then move on..if not well then its a diff story
[/QUOTE]

Pir Sahib, the facts are that despite all of Bush's rhetoric, he cannot act unilaterally. You know that there is a way to get the debate moving within the US. There are few things that have been decided, and the prime one is that the "network of terrorists whereever they may be" will be taken out. If it means georgia and the pianski gorge and letting putin do it, fine. If it means taking the "esteemed arab guests out from down town Karach, and letting Musharaff do it while the FBI and CIA monitor that ISI and other agencies don't play both sides of the street, fine. It is clear that to get the job done of clearing the terrorists network, the middle east and the various muslim countries and how they conduct their affairs are going to be affected. No doubt about it. Whether Saudia Arabia now controls the Wahhabi charities and monitors the movement of money, or monitors and controls the education of the Imams or whether Bangladesh controls the Jammaat, or whether Iraq undergoes a regime change are merely actions within the overall goal of getting the terror networks out roots and all. Americans did not pick this fight, but I assure you that they will see it through, and they are fully aware that it is a long one. The time frame as I see it is atleast 50 to 70 years, and you can rest assured that the countries of the middle east are not going to be functioning as they have been for the last 80 years. If change is instability then it is coming. I think there is going to be a lot more democracy and education introduced into the middle east than it ever would have on its own over the next few decades. Pakistan is an example. Fazel-ur-Rehman and the others were brandishing global jihad, entertaining Chechans openly in Peshawar, etc etc. All of that has changed. Yesterday the photographs in Jang were of the five arabs captured in Karachi. Musharaff was wise in changing the Afghanistani policy, and curbing the jihadis as fast as he did. Same way, arab governments can change on their own or events will be set into motion that they will end up getting changed. Beleive it or not Israel has very little to do with this. This is now an American fight.

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Oldlahori I dont dispute what you say at all. My only interest is looking at the lobbying groups and lobbyists. the influence of lobbyists has been in all arenas. whether ots bog three and publiuc trasnportation issues or clean air, whether its logging industry or the NRA.

My only interest in this article is the issue of lobbyists. the ar against terror may be an American fight, it does not mean that other countries will not take advantage of this for their own goals, whether its governments tigheting their grips, or cleaning house in their countries of their own problems, whether its countries getting concessions. Why would Israel not want to benefit from it like anyone else? and when it wants to benefit from it does it not help that it has former lobbyisis in prominent positions.

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Funny, I never hear about all the Saudi lobbyists. They spend a fortune with American oil companies, American High Tech companies, and Billions on the American Defense industry. Never mind that the Saudis are huge investors in a American stocks, bonds and Government Treasuries.

Nope, absolutely impossible that they would have "lobbyists", promoting a pro-arab, pro-palestinian agenda. The jews would never allow that to happen!

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Fraudz: *
Oldlahori I dont dispute what you say at all. My only interest is looking at the lobbying groups and lobbyists. the influence of lobbyists has been in all arenas. whether ots bog three and publiuc trasnportation issues or clean air, whether its logging industry or the NRA.

My only interest in this article is the issue of lobbyists. the ar against terror may be an American fight, it does not mean that other countries will not take advantage of this for their own goals, whether its governments tigheting their grips, or cleaning house in their countries of their own problems, whether its countries getting concessions. Why would Israel not want to benefit from it like anyone else? and when it wants to benefit from it does it not help that it has former lobbyisis in prominent positions.
[/QUOTE]

it would be silly not to expect Israelis to try to take advantage. Bush had Arab lobbyists over to the White house on the 10th, and I am sure that they tried to put their view point across. Does Khalilzada, the ex-afghan, and now American ambassador to afghanistan tries to influence which way the American policy in Afghanistan go? Ofcourse he does and he should. Do the various Lt. Generals of Pakistan that are acting as consultants to various US defence contractors try to put forth their views to influence US policy towards Pakistan? Of course they should and they do. Again policy in US is not made by just a Dick Cheney or just by a Paul Wolfitz (sp?) or just by Colin Powell etc. The strength lies in having input from as many sources as possible and then analysing and making sense of the cacophonous din.

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exactly, so there is no harm in someone saying that lobbyists exist or former lobbyists are in powerful positions. and different lobbying groups exist, some are more influential and others are not.. case in point NRA and the automotive folks. The lobbyists who are stronger get to push their agenda more too.

It happens everyday, knowing it, understanding it, and if you dont like it countering it is one's right.

lobbyists have a right to lobby, others have a right to show that to general public.

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Sure! Otherwise we would never know when a conflict of interest starts and how much credence to give to whose opinions. The more the information on who is in power, their background, and their biases, the better. The pity is when guilt is charged or conspiracy is alleged without any evidence at all. The Global Jewish Lobby of incredible Power is an easy bogeyman to invoke.

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on the other hand not understanding that powerful interest groups exist and calling everything a conspiracy theory may also not be productive. In my humble opinion everything is not a conspiracy theory and everything is not the truth.

The quote from usual suspects comes to mind

"The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn’t exist"

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OG,

I don't think you can question Fisk's credentials as a journalist, he has spent over 20 years covering the Middle East working for quality broadsheets like The Times and now The Independent. Both those publications run columnists with different viewpoints, some support USA, some question their motives quite strongly.

Immediately following the last Gulf War the BBC ran a documentary on Syria, which showed some similarity to the Iraqi regime. Strictly secular and modern (some pretty stunning women soldiers), similar Ba'athist ideology, a developing military power in the region. That's not really a problem to most other nations in the world, America and Israel seem to have different view of things.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Fraudz: *
on the other hand not understanding that powerful interest groups exist and calling everything a conspiracy theory may also not be productive. In my humble opinion everything is not a conspiracy theory and everything is not the truth.

The quote from usual suspects comes to mind

"The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn’t exist"
[/QUOTE]

Pir Sahib, Does an American Jewish Lobby exists that contributes a lot of money to congressional races? The answer is clearly yes. I think how much they contribute and to whom is well documented. Is there an Arab lobby group? The answer to that is also yes. Are they even close to the effectiveness of the Jewish lobby group? The answer is H* no. Is there an Indian lobby group? Yes and is it more effective than the Pakistani lobby group? unfortunately yes.

Now is the jewish lobby group so powerful that it controls American Media, and dictates American Policy to the detriment of American People and to the benefit of Israel? I don't think so, and here some people tend to go off the deep end into conspiracies galore. I personally worry more about the influence of the BIG bussiness lobby and the BIG labor lobby working against the benefit of the average joe, than I worry about the big global jewish lobby. But all in all it is health for a democracy for its citizens to worry about which lobby has acquired undue Influence. That is one of the problems in Pakistans handling of democracy: they view the lobbying activity as corruption instead of the democratic process of vying for influence to divvy up the National Pie.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by OldLahori: *

Now is the jewish lobby group so powerful that it controls American Media, and dictates American Policy to the detriment of American People and to the benefit of Israel? I don't think so, and here some people tend to go off the deep end into conspiracies galore. I personally worry more about the influence of the BIG bussiness lobby and the BIG labor lobby working against the benefit of the average joe, than I worry about the big global jewish lobby. But all in all it is health for a democracy for its citizens to worry about which lobby has acquired undue Influence. That is one of the problems in Pakistans handling of democracy: they view the lobbying activity as corruption instead of the democratic process of vying for influence to divvy up the National Pie.
[/QUOTE]

does the BIg business lobby get things done which may be in their interest but not in the interests of others sure. can a country's lobbying group gets something done which is in its interest and not in the interest of other countries, sure. This does not have to be at the detrmient of american people and to the benefit of Israel, it could be to the benefit of Israel and of detriment to its rivals. e.g. Indian lobbying group can influence actiosn which would be advantageous to India and not to Pakistan, it has little to do with American public at large.

so you worry about one sort of lobbying, someone else can worry about another type of lobbying. You are not as impacted by lobbying groups that have foriegn policy type of agenda because you are not impacted by it as much as you are impacted by what the big business gets through and how it impacts the stock market, work conditions, general industry etc. Someone who does not live in US may not be interested in whether NRA gets its wishes :)

as far as lobbying being corruption. It can be and it may not be. It depends.

The whole concept of lobbying groups and powerful interests and conspiracy theories is not a Pakistani preoccupation. There are plenty of conspiracy theorists here in US too. heck I have seen several movies already where military manufacturers have bought off military leaders etc. Conpiracy theorists are alive and doing well all over.

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so theoretically then how would pakistan reconcile the interests of different business groups. A recent example that I was reading about was Should used cars be allowed to be imported or should parts be imported and assembled in Pakistan? Here were two separate groups vying for influence? How would a decision be made in Pakistan? I think that the role of business lobbies and interests arises. Now how would a situation like that be handled in Pakistan?

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I know this much, some Paki-Americans possess political talent and could be of use to the betterment of the US political process. Given time, this will occur. Unfortunately, by the time that happens, your sharp edge may be off and you may be just another American. There is a definate difference with the Jewish presence in many areas of American business, culture, government, media and education. No other ethnic group fits the scope and goals of this one catagory.