The position of elders in Islam is clear, they are always to be treated with adaab/respect. Parents, in particular, are to be given the most respect and obedience second only to Allah Himself. Thy Lord hath decreed that ye worship none but Him, and that ye be kind to parents. Whether one or both of them attain old age in thy life, say not to them a word of contempt, nor repel them, but address them in terms of honour. XVII.23
and, …We have enjoined on man (to be good) to his parents: in travail upon travail did his mother bear him, and in years twain was his weaning: (hear the command), “Show gratitude to Me and to thy parents: to Me is (thy final) Goal.” XXXI.14
So i understand Islam’s position on respect towards one’s elders. What if you are in the company of an elder and you find yourself disagreeing with her opinions - what if this person, who is much much elder than yourself and is related to you very closely, constantly talks negative about other people, including her own children, grandchildren, deceased husband and daughters-in-law? i feel it’s rude to make an excuse, get up and leave (although i almost always do this), but i feel it even worse - from an Islamic pointofview - to sit there and hear this type of talk. Isn’t that a bigger sin?
She wants me to sit and talk with her, which i would love to do since she is so buzurg and probably would have so many interesting things to tell me that i could learn from, but 99% of the time she starts talking negative about other people - most of the people i know personally, their personalities are not like that. i’m scared of explaining to her that it’s not my place to hear this type of talk & it’s not anyone’s place to talk in this way about others - others older than me have tried telling her this from an Islamic pointofview, but she doesn’t listen. Now i end up mostly avoiding her cos i don’t want to hear this type of stuff, but it’s becoming to the point of rudeness. She’s almost 70, i’m 22, so i should respect her more - i don’t want to be rude to her but neither do i want to sit and hear gossip. What am i doing wrong?
I am sorry Nadia, but I find it funny. Simply because I think every one has had an elder like the one you are describing espesially if they are from Paksitan ( and I imagine India too ). I can simply relate to you what my mother did ( a long time ago ). You sit there and take good notes about all the gossip and derision she spews, with agreeing and occasionally saying that she really shouldn't say stuff like that. Then at the next family gathering, you can very innocently start by asking if what "chachi dadi ma" (or what ever her title is) says about such and such is true or not? If families are families fireworks should fly, and you can simply keep producing more quotes and let her keep denying them one at time. Beleibe me, she will never speak gossip to you again, and if she tries you can simply beg off because it gets you into a lot of trouble. It should be fun.
Old Lahori, thanks for the response. True, i think unfortunately many Pakistanis probably have an elder like this.
Your mother had a creative way of dealing with it. You're not gonna believe me, but over the past 50 odd years, a lot of our rishtidaaron have tried almost every trick in the book with her to make her change her gossiping ways. She simply denies it or makes us feel sorry and guilty, "Nahin main nai to nahin yeh kabhie kaha. Sab buRai meray sar pai daal detay hain. Aisay izzat hoti hai buzurgon ki?" Then i feel so guilty and sorry for her that i just want to die for being so mean; then out of guilt i keep her company and talk with her, then the gossiping starts all over again. Two nights ago, she was even telling me negative stuff about her deceased husband. It brought tears to my eyes, because he was such a decent and simple man. i had no respect for her left after that & after she called her daughter-in-law some names. Pity, yes, but not respect.
She's got caught many times with her own lies - (once when she wrote letters to two different people filled with lies about the other, and accidentally mailed the letters to the wrong people), but it never deters her.
Allah Knows best.... May He Guide us all on the right path Insha'Allah.
Oh don't feel guilty and pity. Waste of time and effort. Enjoy her, she sounds like a charachter. If you ever become a writer, she will provide a lot of material for your books. You don't have to be so darned judgemental wether she is good or evil etc. Take her for what she is, and her worry about her own morals, and you worry about yours. I'll bet you she has some good turn of the phrases, and comes up with some real doosies, that average people couldn't. So everyone knows the way she is, then just enjoy her. You might actually want to encourage her a little so to let her creative juices flow to come up with her even more bizarre stories. Ask her what was the worst her husband did to her, for example. Then kick back and listen. I'll bet you heck of better than any Oprah show anytime. You qoute Khalil Gibran; was he a muslim?
Dude, you definitely ought to respect elders, but if someone is doing something wrong, your responsibility is to correct them, even if it means telling them to their face. After that, your responsibility ends, and you definitely dont have to indulge if she approaches you for another gossip session afterwards.
My dad's aunt does jadoo and she does it on many people in our family. I always smile and say hello, but beyond that if she approaches me, I give her a hard look and say "mere paas time nahin hai".
Ahan. Every bad thing that happens in the world our people conveniently blame on jadoo.
Nadia, she’s 70. She’s going to die soon. What’s the point? If she gets some happiness - some ATTENTION - which she seems to be severely lacking - give it to her. By putting an old woman her age down in any way, u r not doing her or yourself any good. It’s not like she’s driving around in a pink cadillac painting the town red for Heaven’s Sakes. Just a crabby old woman bitching about life every now and then. Nothing wrong with that. If u don’t like to tolerate her patiently, don’t go near her. Simple.
And btw, by the time a person’s 70 years old, it’s not a question of “disagreeing on opinions” and all that juvenile BS. She just wants someone to be near her and love her a bit. That’s all.
Ana, you are showing your age!!! That cannot be coming from a teenager or early 20 something!! Welcome to the old fogey club.
Now Now take it easy. I was just kidding.
Old Lahori, if i’m not mistaken Khalil Gibran was a 19th century Lebanese poet who adhered to the Maronite sect of Christianity.
Some of his quotations are great, i agree with them which is why i like to use them. Thanks for all of your help, i really appreciate it. Will try to take up your advice.
PyariCgudia, i think you’re right. But i can’t just correct her - i know it’s not, but it feels so rude. i try to change the topic or look away so she gets the hint…But sometimes, if there are “important” guests over, she will talk very normally - no badmouthing anyone and those are the times it’s really peaceful to spend time with her Masha’Allah Masha’Allah.
Ana, Alhamdulillah she has lived a very, very privileged and Blessed life these past 70 years. Her deceased husband was one of the most simplest, decent men on earth - they had tons of servants but he never once gave them a sharp word, let alone to his wife. He was the most humblest, most devoted husband. His career was such that they had to travel a great deal - she’s accompanied him on visits thruout south Asia, she’s never had to work a day in her life, met the Queen of England twice (which was her childhood wish). He loved her a great deal. Even health-wise, Alhamdulillah, she’s fine. She has 8 children, 18 grandchildren, and 1 great-grandchild - all of whom, by the Mercy of Allah, are in good health.
Perhaps if she said bad stuff about others only at her old age, i would be more willing to listen to her gossip - i’d attribute it to old age, but it’s been a childhood and adult habit.
What i feel bad about is listening to her talk bad about her daughters-in-law - for goodness’ sake, who am i to hear this type of stuff? What if her daughters-in-law - whom i have met and stayed with - knew that she was talking bad about them and i kept quiet? That’s a big sin in Islam too, to listen quietly while someone else is gossiping.
It is very much expected within our culture to show respect to our elders.. everyone has their own individual character and just because they may exaggerate or show ill-will towards others, doesn’t mean we have to stop showing them this respect.
In this case it is an elderly widow who criticises members of her own family and extended family. I would say that to ignore or despise her just because of her character is wrong.. listen to her, empathise with her but don’t ridicule her that will be the worst thing to do. At the latter stages of life simple actions like walking, lifting, shopping etc can be a very tough task, many elderly people are confined to their houses and see very little of the outside world.. they become bored very easily.. I would say that it is a duty for everyone to look after them. Nadia, I am 100% sure that within your heart you do truly care for your relative even though you feel agitated by her comments.
In my heart of hearts, i love her and i care for her deeply.
If i didn't care for her, it would be very easy to ignore her comments and let her gossip; in fact, if i didn't care for her it would be very easy for me to join in the gossiping and thus encourage her habit. But i know this is wrong Islamically. i care for her a great deal... it's the same as when you see someone commit a sin like stealing or something, you feel really sorry for that person because you know they've done something wrong.
In Islam, it says that if you see a wrong being committed, the highest form of a righteous act is to physically prevent that injustice from being committed. It decreases from physically preventing it, to speaking out against it, then writing against it, then holding it in your heart. The only thing i can do is hold it in my heart, and not gossip about others. There is a passage in Surah Hujurat regarding backbiting that i know you have read many times: And spy not on each other behind their backs. Would any of you like to eat the flesh of his dead brother? Nay, ye would abhor it...But fear God: For God is Oft-Returning, Most Merciful.
But then only Allah Knows best. No one is perfect, certainly not me. But all i wish is that she wouldn't gossip so that i wouldn't have to hear bad stuff about other people be they Muslim or nonMuslim. It's just hurtful.
Nadia, like suroor says, in one ear and outta the other.
People that age just want someone to listen to them pour their hearts out. That's all. You can't change them, it's too late. But it's not too late to change yourself coz u're still young. You have a lot of patience with doing social work and helping underprivileged kids Masha'Allah, use some of that patience in your own home. If she's a gossipy old cat, let her be. It's between her and Allah now; nothing u can do, and frankly, nothing u should do. Whatever her husband was etc etc.. is not your concern, same with her bahus etc.. (unless one of them is for eg. your mom .. then I can see where the tension would come from..)..but if they've got nothing to do with you, don't bother. Who knows what she may think of her life, maybe she doesn't feel her husband and family have done her a good turn. We can't always judge people's hearts just by what is on their tongue. Besides, if u get bored with her, just go do your own thing. That age .. it's easy for them to handle rejection, because they've been thru so much already by that time. So if you up and walk off in the middle of a convo, she'll prolly feel a bit hurt but she'll not mind. When u get to be a 70 year old, u'll know. Life's not always the bed of roses it seems to a 22 yr old ;).
I just assumed that the average age of the guppies is about 20 with a standard deviation of about 5. I guess I just made an ass of myself; that comes with assuming stuff.
Ana, i appreciate your taking the time to write everything you did. Thank you. Mind you life's not always a bed of roses for every 22 year old. As much as i'll hate listening to the gossip, i guess it's in one ear and out the other from now on.
Ahan. Every bad thing that happens in the world our people conveniently blame on jadoo.
Will try to take up your advice.