reply to Karina-differentiating Islam from other religions (ie. Hinduism)

Society Religion & Philosophy
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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Asif_k: *
^ I find it hard to believe. Even if It is true, It still doesn't prove anything because the major reason for Islam's growth is the Birth Rate in the third world countries **not **Conversions.

If you want to prove me wrong, Go ahead and make my day.

This whole discussion of 'My religion better than yours' is simply stupid.
[/QUOTE]

Asif, I do not wish to fight about conversions as that is not my scale of judging how good a religion is, but in case you really want to meet an educated American reverted to Islam then let me know whenever you are in Dallas-Fortworth area.

To some extent you are right that globally Islam may be spreading more due to migrations out of Muslim countries and birth rate, but additionally people ARE reverting to Islam.

62

Originally posted by Asif_k:
^ I find it hard to believe. Even if It is true, It still doesn't prove anything because the major reason for Islam's growth is the Birth Rate in the third world countries not Conversions.

If you want to prove me wrong, Go ahead and make my day.

This whole discussion of 'My religion better than yours' is simply stupid.

Well asif it might be so in the 3rd world countries that the growth of islam is due to birth rate, but my friend how do u explain islam being the the fastest growing religon in the west?????????

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Asif_k: *

Suroor - That's not a valid logic. Islam is probably the fastest growing religion but have you ever tried to figur out how ? Do you know any educated Individual who has converted to ISLAM just because he or she likes it or accepts it ? Well I have not seen anyone so far. Have you ever tried to figure out the population explosion in Third World Countries?

Islam is growing in America and one simple reason for that is American Muslim birth rate is 4.5 as compared to 1.9 overall. Some other reasons for that is many Muslim have immigrated to North America from other places .
[/QUOTE]

If you haven't seen it, doesen't mean its not true.

I personally have 2 friends in my masjid in Kentucky who have reverted to Islam. They are both Americans. Islam truly appeals more to the educated!!!!!

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Changez, the concept of Quran being the word of god comes down to faith, not truth. It is good to have faith. There is nothing wrong with that. I have said this many times, to prove the validity of the quran as the word of god by quoting the quran is circular logic. If faith suggests so, then great. But what you are confusing is that "faith is not truth".

Roman, the question is not whether adultery is bad or good. You are confusing the issue. I am certain no religion says adultery is good. SO Islam is not unique in that aspect. Where it is unique and wrong in my view is meting out punishment for a private matter. Maybe other religions are more in line with human behavior as they do not tie to legislate private matters, where god has given us enough intelligence to use our brains.

This whole concept of people are born one religin or reversion is a moonpie. It is tabula rasa. Faith is ana cquired taste like Tripe not an genentic marker. You cannot say that everyone is born muslim then say that we should respect all religions. This is an oxymoron. If everyone is born a muslim, i.e. genetic marker, then to deviate is a mutation caused by the environment, e.g. cancer. So where is the respect? This is a false notion again and reeks of insecurity, in my opinion.

Suroor, I have had the debate with many a islamic pundits on this site re: interest. They don;t have a leg to stand on. You can do your own research. They confuse interest with usury. Short term debt issues would also be termed haraam by the likes of these people but they wouldn;t have any idea how to keep a country like Pakistan fiscally viable otherwise. So it is an anachronistic notion.

As far as munbers go. Proselytizing is a tactic of monotheistic brimstone and fire faiths. It has no place in the eastern religions. The entire prison pipulation of alabama can convert ot islam, those are numbers too. Means nothing...

lastly to Robby. This whole concept of way of life is true for every religion. Where islam goes overboard is the retrofitting of anachronistic practices into a modern system of life It assumes that man is not smart enough for the simplest of things. Now, maybe the arabs were inherently barbaric and slow and needed something to corral their wild ways but that is not true for the rest of the world.

Spock..I will let you into a little secret, I don;t view the world in terms of relgion. But if someone is hell bent on proving their idiotic superiority of their faith. i.e. the originator of this thread then game on.

The message in Islam is a great message. Oneness with god. Egalitarianism, charity, universal appeal. All of these are laudable characteristics. But just as there are good things in other religions, there are good things in Islam. When faith and spirituality turns into dogma, then I have a problem. Whether be it hindu, muslim or worshipping Mother teresa

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^ so basically u have a beef with everyone in this world who follow any type of religion .. :smack:

right or wrong, its what we believe in and i respect what u believe in.

khush?

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guppies.. pls give it a rest..

the same old points and facts get mentioned in every thread.. and i dont see anyone listening to one another... in the 3 pages of this discussion.. has anyone actually agreed with the opposing side?

for all u muslims... Islam teaches tolerance, patience, and kindness.. if ur preaching Islam... pls try to follow these first..

and for those who are condemning buddhism... remember that the key taechings of buddhism are found virtually in every religion..

give this argument a rest now.. move onto another topic... pls

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Especially those who forget the message in practice of dogma. Yes, specially those people.

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Religion schmeligion! How many of you chose your religion? You just happened to be borne into one and conditioned to think that's the best.

Sure sure, someone is going to say ... "yeah but when I learnt to think I compared and it is still the best"...and that's phooyei because none of you compared anything except to know what's wrong with others.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by TomSawyer: *
Religion schmeligion! How many of you chose your religion? You just happened to be borne into one and conditioned to think that's the best.

Sure sure, someone is going to say ... "yeah but when I learnt to think I compared and it is still the best"...and that's phooyei because none of you compared anything except to know what's wrong with others.
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and how u r certified in judging everyone and generalizing it this way?

i've already said that i am not a good muslim. but i have seen ppl who actually chose to be muslims or hindus or christians.

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^ thats not entirely true..

not all of us think that every other religion speaks rubbish.. all religion does is give us a sense of belonging... some people dont need religion.. most of us do.. it doesnt make one better than the other, its just another way of living life basically..

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my blabber actually worked?

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:hehe: its not blabber.. i love reading ur posts.

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^ aww thanx suroor :)

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Matsui: *
Especially those who forget the message in practice of dogma. Yes, specially those people.
[/QUOTE]

so thas where ur faith is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! so thas where u base your life!!!!!!!

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by sadzzz: *
guppies.. pls give it a rest..

the same old points and facts get mentioned in every thread.. and i dont see anyone listening to one another... in the 3 pages of this discussion.. has anyone actually agreed with the opposing side?

for all u muslims... Islam teaches tolerance, patience, and kindness.. if ur preaching Islam... pls try to follow these first...

and for those who are condemning buddhism... remember that the key taechings of buddhism are found virtually in every religion..

give this argument a rest now.. move onto another topic... pls
[/QUOTE]

your post can be discussed aswell but i'll give it a rest :)

btw i'm not a perfect muslim so i can argue as much as i like so you can't expect tolerance, patience and kindness from me :)

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Gulabo.. i cant be bothered discussing this topic either... but i just wanted to say...

before all namazein, before fasting and paying zakat.. being a good human is important.... thats the beginning to becomnig a good muslim.. and most importantly a good human being :) cheerz

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by sadzzz: *
guppies.. pls give it a rest..

the same old points and facts get mentioned in every thread.. and i dont see anyone listening to one another... in the 3 pages of this discussion.. has anyone actually agreed with the opposing side?

for all u muslims... Islam teaches tolerance, patience, and kindness.. if ur preaching Islam... pls try to follow these first..

and for those who are condemning buddhism... remember that the key taechings of buddhism are found virtually in every religion..

give this argument a rest now.. move onto another topic... pls
[/QUOTE]

Why should we politically correct if we dont agree with something, if there is problem or a conflict we should come out and confront it not avoid it thinking it will go away. Well as for islam teaching tolerence, patience and kindness i agree with that but at the same time if someone is spreading or talking out of ignorance it is a muslims duty to debate it, condem it, and if it comes to it defend, not talking about a problem is not the soulution or the cure, it wont go away till you treat it.

As a muslim when you say qalma, you take oath that god is one and there is only him and no other god, according to islam you must not bow down to anyone but allah, then how can you say we must not codem the budhist or hindu religon, i am not saying they are bad, or the people who follow these religons are bad, but if today we as muslims decide to stay quiet, thinking it would get better, it simply wont cuz to achieve something you have to treat it as i said before. If we wont debate them today how would we be able to show them how great islam is, i am glad people ask us no matter what there intensions, atleast they will learn a bit about islam and hopefully someday they mught evn believe it.

that is why sadz there is no point in shutting up, everyone should speak out so both sides can learn from eachother, and have a better prospective of what the other belives. Besides issues are based on honesty and principles and they cant be put to rest at any price because there is no compromise when those issues are concerned, and religon is one of them.

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robby.... u debate everyday.. have you made a difference? changed anyones perception about Islam?

talk to those who want to listen and understand... dont shove it down someones throat when all they are gonna do is push it all back out with filth..

respect others they you want to be respected...

79

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by sadzzz: *
robby.... u debate everyday.. have you made a difference? changed anyones perception about Islam?

talk to those who want to listen and understand... dont shove it down someones throat when all they are gonna do is push it all back out with filth..

respect others they you want to be respected...
[/QUOTE]

well sads i think you are stateing this in the wrong thread, i think this thread was made to discuss this issue. Only people who are interested in this topic are here, if you are not interested then i guess you should be on another thread , i think u are the one who is trying to shove your opinion down everyone elses throat. The majority wants to discuss this topic then why are you getting so hyper, why do you want to put it to rest????

80

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by sadzzz: *
Gulabo.. i cant be bothered discussing this topic either... but i just wanted to say...

before all namazein, before fasting and paying zakat.. being a good human is important.... thats the beginning to becomnig a good muslim.. and most importantly a good human being :) cheerz
[/QUOTE]

you can't be bothered but still you went on to bother urself with this reply :)

yes being a good human being is a good start for starter. but you can't good to those who don't know the difference between good and bad. who won't listen, even if thats for the sake of argument, bcoz they already have their minds made up. i can try to have my point get acrossed by being a good human , not good muslim though, but at the same time you need ppl who will listen before opening their mouths. gimme that kind of audience and i'll be good. however, if they want to be rough then i have no choice but to be tough. fair and square :)