Re: Renewable Energy- india's built-in advantage
or until other forms of energy become more viable economically. which it is even today, if the ecological cost were to be priced in.
Re: Renewable Energy- india's built-in advantage
Nope ... I can fairly confidently say that even when renewable energy becomes more economically viable fossil fuels will still produced and taken away as reserves. It's like leaving a gold mine or gem seam alone knowing it is there ... Today there are countries that are buying fuel as reserve energy ... Neither using it themselves nor selling it to others for use. Their main driver is to prevent competition.
Re: Renewable Energy- india's built-in advantage
India is surely missing a tidal wave energy god ?!?! approx 3 years back I was involved in the installation of Tidal wave plant in Northern Ireland (latest of the renewable energy technologies).
Good point! Have to research if we have a tidal wave God!
Looks like you do some interesting work. What was the power rating for the plant? I assume it runs 24 hrs a day. If its peak power is say 100MW on average what is the power output? 70%?
Does it give out dc or ac? How is tidal power converted to electricitysorty for too many question s.
Re: Renewable Energy- india's built-in advantage
energy is the gold. it wouldnt make sense to pay extra money and still pollute the earth when its cheaper to go clean.
reserves etc. still come with the weakness of marginal advantage. we don't exactly run on coal powered steam-engines anymore.
Re: Renewable Energy- india's built-in advantage
energy is the gold. it wouldnt make sense to pay extra money and still pollute the earth when its cheaper to go clean.
reserves etc. still come with the weakness of marginal advantage. we don't exactly run on coal powered steam-engines anymore.
You are not getting me ... It is about controlling fuel and have power through possession of that fuel ... That is why despite the economic and ecological advantages you will see that oil and gas will be produced (but not necessarily used) until all natural fields are depleted.
Re: Renewable Energy- india's built-in advantage
well, explain to me - how you as a consumer of energy would agree to pay $2 for oil-based energy when your neighbour runs his shop on $1 energy.
if you are talking about energy lobbies being powerful and not letting clean technologies advance until they say so, thats a different thing..
Re: Renewable Energy- india's built-in advantage
Unless fossil based energy producers are forced to pay penalty for Ghg emissions or clean energy gets an equivalent break the latter may not be able to compete on a $/kwh basis. While PVs and wind energy is getting more cost effective it is still costlier thanfosdil based sources.plus in the US oil companies and I think nat gas producers get tax breaks. So playing field uneven. If polio y changes then yes - renewables will have their day in the sun.
I thu k the honorable psyah has a point.
Re: Renewable Energy- india's built-in advantage
well, explain to me - how you as a consumer of energy would agree to pay $2 for oil-based energy when your neighbour runs his shop on $1 energy.
if you are talking about energy lobbies being powerful and not letting clean technologies advance until they say so, thats a different thing..
I am indeed saying the lobbies are powerful ... But I'm also saying why they would want clean technologies to be used later ... Rather they are encouraging the use of cleaner energy throughout the world, but the powerful states themselves veto the motions for themselves.
Just do a search on where the oil and gas fields are around the world and then do another search for where all the produced reserves are kept ... It is not that they are using those reserves either ... They are just sitting on them. It is just a hapless accident that the most dangerous technologies yield the most power. Renewable energy is unlikely to give existing emerging economies any military advantage ... They will never go into an industrial era ... They are likely to move straight into telly tubby land ... You know that futuristic soft edge society of flowers and cell phones ...
Re: Renewable Energy- india's built-in advantage
there are no powerful countries today economically. europe is castrated. US is hanging on just by a hair by its ability to attract high grade immigrants to run the show. developing economies like china, where the lobbies aren't the same, have as much economic clout, if not more, when it comes to dictating what technologies get the fast track lane and state sponsorship. sure they are marking their territory on all the visible oilfields from south china sea to africa, but they aren't committed 100% to following through. the world may be seeing one of the lowest barriers to opposition/acceptance of technology for reasons other than pure merit.
Re: Renewable Energy- india's built-in advantage
^ what you say is true as well ... I guess we should just watch this space ... The countries themselves are no longer powerful ... It is certain companies i.e. countries without borders that are most powerful today.
Re: Renewable Energy- india's built-in advantage
Good point! Have to research if we have a tidal wave God!
Looks like you do some interesting work. What was the power rating for the plant? I assume it runs 24 hrs a day. If its peak power is say 100MW on average what is the power output? 70%?
Does it give out dc or ac? How is tidal power converted to electricitysorty for too many question s.
It was the demo version and the rating was 1.2 MW. Not Exactly it supposed/designed to operate between 16 to 20 hrs a day. Because it was a demo, that's why it was operated at half efficiency but it was believed that it can be run upto 95% efficiency.
It gives you AC but you can also get DC by means of Commutation Reaction. Seagen (Also known as Tidal Stream Generator) was used to convert the tidal power in electricity.
Recently (Last Year) South Korea has constructed the biggest Tidal Power Plant with the capacity of more then 250 MW.
Re: Renewable Energy- india's built-in advantage
^thanks a lot - will check it out
Re: Renewable Energy- india's built-in advantage
there are no powerful countries today economically. europe is castrated. US is hanging on just by a hair by its ability to attract high grade immigrants to run the show. developing economies like china, where the lobbies aren't the same, have as much economic clout, if not more, when it comes to dictating what technologies get the fast track lane and state sponsorship. sure they are marking their territory on all the visible oilfields from south china sea to africa, but they aren't committed 100% to following through. the world may be seeing one of the lowest barriers to opposition/acceptance of technology for reasons other than pure merit.
This. The US is mired in bureaucracy, while China gets things done. They are investing heavily in R&D, and are preparing for the future, while America is still trying to monopolize oil. You are right psyah, in that oil will not just disappear overnight, especially in developing countries, but if you offer a competitively priced alternative energy source to the developed world, I'm certain that adoption would be widespread.
Re: Renewable Energy- india's built-in advantage
Wind is definitely more scalable and cost effective than Solar.
I'm from the power industry and have had good exposure to all forms.
It's not just Europe thats taken on renewable energies. China and India are both major players in the global wind industry with China being #1 in the world in terms of both total installed capacity and annual installations.
Re: Renewable Energy- india's built-in advantage
^ cost wise how does wind compare with nat gas and coal generated electricity? What is impact on grid stability of wind fluctuations?
Re: Renewable Energy- india's built-in advantage
^ cost wise how does wind compare with nat gas and coal generated electricity? What is impact on grid stability of wind fluctuations?
It varies. The quality/strength/uniformity of wind resource at a potential site will translate into how expensive it is.
It also varies country to country. North America and Europe do not yet accept the cheaper Chinese companies who have helped revolutionize wind in China. If they did, the cost would decrease.
If I had to make a broad general statement, I'd say wind is more expensive than natural gas and coal. The industry needs subsidies from the government otherwise projects are simply not viable financially. USA, Canada and most European countires have this inplace in some for or another. The US tax credit is expiring this year and the government has not extended it yet (it has been extended everytime it expires for more than a decade, maybe two) and they probably won't until the elections even though both parties are for it. But unfortunately the impact is already there with layoffs at wind turbine manufacturing plants and no new orders being signed anywhere in the USA due to lack of confirmation that the tax credit will be extended.
I think the support from governments all around the world is valid... the slight price premium for wind is worth it given it is soo effing green compared to coal and natural gas. It is worth noting that tax credits and subsidies exist in most countries for almost all forms of generation, even the dirty one. But wind usually needs a higher kicker than others to make it work - no doubt about that.
There is no extreme impact on grid stability due to fluctuations. Appropriate electrical standards exist everywhere to control this. Wind will not become the primary resource of energy because of its fluctuations but it can, should and will become an important part of the energy mix.
Re: Renewable Energy- india's built-in advantage
It varies. The quality/strength/uniformity of wind resource at a potential site will translate into how expensive it is.
It also varies country to country. North America and Europe do not yet accept the cheaper Chinese companies who have helped revolutionize wind in China. If they did, the cost would decrease.
If I had to make a broad general statement, I'd say wind is more expensive than natural gas and coal. The industry needs subsidies from the government otherwise projects are simply not viable financially. USA, Canada and most European countires have this inplace in some for or another. The US tax credit is expiring this year and the government has not extended it yet (it has been extended everytime it expires for more than a decade, maybe two) and they probably won't until the elections even though both parties are for it. But unfortunately the impact is already there with layoffs at wind turbine manufacturing plants and no new orders being signed anywhere in the USA due to lack of confirmation that the tax credit will be extended.
I think the support from governments all around the world is valid... the slight price premium for wind is worth it given it is soo effing green compared to coal and natural gas. It is worth noting that tax credits and subsidies exist in most countries for almost all forms of generation, even the dirty one. But wind usually needs a higher kicker than others to make it work - no doubt about that.
There is no extreme impact on grid stability due to fluctuations. Appropriate electrical standards exist everywhere to control this. Wind will not become the primary resource of energy because of its fluctuations but it can, should and will become an important part of the energy mix.
Great post. Excellent point re: tax subsidies for dirty forms of energy.California RPS requires 20% renewables by 2020 I think. At that time cost effective energy storage needed to firm up wind and solar.
Re: Renewable Energy- india’s built-in advantage
^ The “~20-25% by wind by 2020-2025ish” target exists in most states/provinces across North America and Europe.
Check these out:
http://energyresearchgroup.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/wind-cumulative-2011.jpg
Re: Renewable Energy- india's built-in advantage
Actually I'm surprised no one has mentioned utilising biofuel ... in terms of calorific value it is similar to fossil fuels ... but it is still a pollutant ... albeit to a lesser degree. But I feel the most potential in our desi climate is biofuel ... plenty of cows, sheep and horses to keep that industry boyant ...
Re: Renewable Energy- india's built-in advantage
This. The US is mired in bureaucracy, while China gets things done. They are investing heavily in R&D, and are preparing for the future, while America is still trying to monopolize oil. You are right psyah, in that oil will not just disappear overnight, especially in developing countries, but if you offer a competitively priced alternative energy source to the developed world, I'm certain that adoption would be widespread.
The constrains are political first and then economic ... CFT is common and it is increasing - taxation has made it more desirable - and in time further taxation will make it more feasible.