and oh yes, plaese englighted us when the last attack on foriegners took place in Islamabad and Karachi?
In karachi it was in 1995 (if you do not include the Pearl Murder), and even today the US counsalate remains closed because of that.
As for militant mollahs, thats what you used to describe people like the lashker-e-taoiba, sipah-e-sihapa and all, who thrive on murdering innocent people.
As for the MMA leaders, they already have their titles, such as Maulana Diesel Fazul Rehman, sandwich sami LOL...
[/QUOTE]
lets include the Pearl murder and all the attacks by mqm on innicont ppl and the police brutality. that would make way more than one attack.
and i don't wanna comment on the names u gave these great ppl. us ki saza to ALLAh hi daiga
lets include the Pearl murder and all the attacks by mqm on innicont ppl and the police brutality. that would make way more than one attack.
and i don't wanna comment on the names u gave these great ppl. us ki saza to ALLAh hi daiga
[/QUOTE]
haha, in case you didnt know, the attack I was referring to was attack on foriegners, UN doesnt issue travel bans on attacks on locals, well, I must say, since you have no idea on current affairs, its best not to discuss it with you, its a waste of time...
As for Sandwich Sami, Maulana Diesal Rehman, do actually read why newspapers, such as Dawn and Jang gava them these names, it highlights their corruption. Do you even know who sandwich Sami is? you just called him a great leader LOL
The recent foreign visits of Maulana Fazlur Rehman, Qazi Hussain Ahmad and Maulana Shah Ahmad Noorani are also part of the **deal* between the two sides.*
haha, in case you didnt know, the attack I was referring to was attack on foriegners, UN doesnt issue travel bans on attacks on locals, well, I must say, since you have no idea on current affairs, its best not to discuss it with you, its a waste of time...
As for Sandwich Sami, Maulana Diesal Rehman, do actually read why newspapers, such as Dawn and Jang gava them these names, it highlights their corruption. Do you even know who sandwich Sami is? you just called him a great leader LOL
[/QUOTE]
and Pearl was a local of karachi eh
and sandwish sami ka pata nahi laikin moaulana fazal rehman is a great man and dawn and jang can stick their newspapers up their asses. they have nothing better to do jsut like junoon.
Yeah, Maulana Deisel Rahman, who still has to make up his mind, one day he says ‘a woman cannot lead the country’, the next day hes supporting Benazir, and gets special Diesel, LOL… Whats he upto these days, oh yes, he made a visit to Paris just to meet Musharraf so that he can become part of the present Government.
btw, pearl case was a kidnapping case, not an attack… In any case, it was carried out by a fundamentalist group, which has close ties with Fazular Rehman, Jaish etc.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by PakCanada: *
no I don't live in NWFP. but my whole family is their and they are more than happy with the MMA. It's back to Pashtoon times. And why I'm here is because my dad since he was a kid has been living in forieng lads because of previous corrupt governments and is why he didn't go back to Paksistan. and I was ten when I moved to Canada so I had no say on it just like I don't now because I'm only 16. and once I'm able to I will go back to NWFP and live there and am sure it will be way better than it was with corrupt governments that used to be there.
[/QUOTE]
Poor PakCanada,
It must be terrible for you living in Canada. Seeing all this freedom and opportunity. I wonder if the Canadian government ever told you that you cannot have a beard, or that you cannot wear shalwar kamez or you cannot go to the mosque and pray. Heck, they will even allow you to speak your mind and say anything you don't like about the west. Wonder if you were in NWFP and spoke bad about the mullahs, would they tolerate you as a person just trying to express yourself.
Oh, the corrupt Pakistani governments you talk about, the MMA people were buds with Zia and in his government. Wonder why your dad never went back then? They were also in Benazir and Sharif's government as well. Remember the IJI, JI and others were part of it. So don't give me this crap about the mullah's being victims here. There fingers are just as dirty as all the leaders in recent memory.
BTW, hope you get to go back to the NWFP pretty soon. Just remember, say goodbye to all the freedom's you are accustomed to. Starting with the Internet. If your MMA pals have their way, Internet will be history there. We sure will miss your posts. :)
Poor PakCanada,
It must be terrible for you living in Canada. Seeing all this freedom and opportunity. I wonder if the Canadian government ever told you that you cannot have a beard, or that you cannot wear shalwar kamez or you cannot go to the mosque and pray. Heck, they will even allow you to speak your mind and say anything you don't like about the west. Wonder if you were in NWFP and spoke bad about the mullahs, would they tolerate you as a person just trying to express yourself.
Oh, the corrupt Pakistani governments you talk about, the MMA people were buds with Zia and in his government. Wonder why your dad never went back then? They were also in Benazir and Sharif's government as well. Remember the IJI, JI and others were part of it. So don't give me this crap about the mullah's being victims here. There fingers are just as dirty as all the leaders in recent memory.
BTW, hope you get to go back to the NWFP pretty soon. Just remember, say goodbye to all the freedom's you are accustomed to. Starting with the Internet. If your MMA pals have their way, Internet will be history there. We sure will miss your posts. :)
[/QUOTE]
thank you for ur views but I can live without internet and all. I beleive we should all live like our Prophet which means no freedom like in western world :)
[QUOTE] Originally posted by PakCanada:
thank you for ur views but I can live without internet and all. I beleive we should all live like our Prophet which means no freedom like in western world
[/QUOTE]
I take it, we won't hear a reply from you ever again on Gupshup. Right?
it had no ties whatsoever with anymembers of the MMA get that straight plz. MMA is not a terrorist momvement is a religious movement. OKAY.
and i think we are getting way off track here plz go back to discussing the documentry.
[/QUOTE]
My dear, you are 16 and have never seen Pakistan like I have. MMA is the mothership of most terrorist organizations in Pakistan. There names have been mentioned here before. Heck the student wing of JI, the Jamiat-i-Talab-i-Islam is also involved in these activities. I know, I was a student at UET and remember being courted by these people. I know these people had nothing to do with education but everything to do with politics. They were, shall we say, terrorists in training.
Lets talk about the documentary, now that I have seen it. It was about an open minded person trying to reason with closed minded people. People who were brain washed and who could not think on their own. These people know only the arabic sentences in a book called the Quran. They do not know what it means. Their mullah leaders do the thinking for these people. What a sad way to live. Salman is a more better Muslim because he can read and understand the Quran and hence challenge the mullah leaders to their interpretation of Islam. It was pretty obvious from that one mullah who said that every women should be locked up in a house. He was full of hate. He had the gaul to call every Muslim country a kafir.
Remember, Pakistan was created by the likes of Jinnah, Iqbal, Liaqat Ali Khan, Sir Syed, etc. All these great men were highly educated (most in western countries), open minded and tolerant Muslims. The Deobandi mullahs were against the creation of Pakistan. Also remember that Jinnah wanted Pakistan to be a country where Muslims and others could practice their religion freely. He wanted a secular Pakistan, a Pakistan tolerant of its minorities and women. A Pakistan that is progressive and democratic. None of these qualities can be found in any of the MMA parties.
Jinnah was a Shia Muslim, who married a parsi woman, spoke english and wore western clothes. If he were alive today and running for Prime Minister, your MMA mullahs would have called him a kafir. The very man that created this great country you call Pakistan.
My dear, you are 16 and have never seen Pakistan like I have. MMA is the mothership of most terrorist organizations in Pakistan. There names have been mentioned here before. Heck the student wing of JI, the Jamiat-i-Talab-i-Islam is also involved in these activities. I know, I was a student at UET and remember being courted by these people. I know these people had nothing to do with education but everything to do with politics. They were, shall we say, terrorists in training.
Lets talk about the documentary, now that I have seen it. It was about an open minded person trying to reason with closed minded people. People who were brain washed and who could not think on their own. These people know only the arabic sentences in a book called the Quran. They do not know what it means. Their mullah leaders do the thinking for these people. What a sad way to live. Salman is a more better Muslim because he can read and understand the Quran and hence challenge the mullah leaders to their interpretation of Islam. It was pretty obvious from that one mullah who said that every women should be locked up in a house. He was full of hate. He had the gaul to call every Muslim country a kafir.
Remember, Pakistan was created by the likes of Jinnah, Iqbal, Liaqat Ali Khan, Sir Syed, etc. All these great men were highly educated (most in western countries), open minded and tolerant Muslims. The Deobandi mullahs were against the creation of Pakistan. Also remember that Jinnah wanted Pakistan to be a country where Muslims and others could practice their religion freely. He wanted a secular Pakistan, a Pakistan tolerant of its minorities and women. A Pakistan that is progressive and democratic. None of these qualities can be found in any of the MMA parties.
Jinnah was a Shia Muslim, who married a parsi woman, spoke english and wore western clothes. If he were alive today and running for Prime Minister, your MMA mullahs would have called him a kafir. The very man that created this great country you call Pakistan.
[/QUOTE]
as u say sir but lets get back to the documentry.
what ever has been said still doesn't justify him singing the ayat. and insalting our religion.
u ppl can bash mullahs all u want MMA all u want and the NWFP all u want but it won't jsutify what Salman Ahmed did.
what ever has been said still doesn't justify him singing the ayat. and insalting our religion.
u ppl can bash mullahs all u want MMA all u want and the NWFP all u want but it won't jsutify what Salman Ahmed did.
[/QUOTE]
He was not insulting our religion. He was trying to make a point. The point he was trying to make is that many people sing the verses from the Quran. The Azan is sung 5 times every day in every mosque in the world. The problem you are having is that he played a little guitar tune to the singing of the verse. The human voice is a musical instrument in itself. Singing is the original instrument.
The Prophet (pbuh) allowed the use of drums and singing of songs. Every Muslim country allows music and song. That is the point Salman was trying to make. None of the people in the documentary could refute those claims by Salman. They just kept repeating the words "You still should not play music". Not very convincing.
Those that are preaching that music, internet is haraam and whatever those fundos are doing in the NWFP is right, should first stop listening to music, stop using the internet, and then tell us whats right and whats wrong.
Now those that are carrying out their limited narrow minded arguments, supporting the mollahs, and saying, 'salman sang in masjids', check out how Salman has explained how the azaan is given in a traditional arabic melody, watcha gotta say to that? Dont tell me its wrong!
Also, this is the reply by Salman on his official forum when the mollah-lovers presented their brilliant arguments… As for those issuings him death threats for singina a hadith, I cant find his post, but hes already said that ‘its better to die fighting for what you believe than to accept brainwashing by the mollahs’…
Yes, Allama Iqbal. He was a great man indeed. Were it not for people like him, we wouldn't have a Pakistan now would we. Where were the Deobandi mullah's when Iqbal, Jinnah and others were fighting for Pakistan and opening the eyes of Muslims in the Sub-Continent? I think they didn't want a Pakistan. We should pack all these mullah's and send them back to Deoband. Pakistan needs more Iqbal's and Jinnah's.
We need Muslim leaders who can think and adapt Islam to the 21st century. We don't want to live like Muslims did a thousand years ago. If some people on this board want to live like that, then do so, but don't tell me to do so.
Muslims in India became Muslims because of people like Data Ganj Baksh and other Sufi saints. These people adapted Islam in such a way that it appealed to my fore fathers. They presented Islam as a tolerant, modern, equal and loving religion. Imagine our current mullah's trying to spread Islam?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by xguru: *
Yes, Allama Iqbal. He was a great man indeed. Were it not for people like him, we wouldn't have a Pakistan now would we. Where were the Deobandi mullah's when Iqbal, Jinnah and others were fighting for Pakistan and opening the eyes of Muslims in the Sub-Continent? I think they didn't want a Pakistan. We should pack all these mullah's and send them back to Deoband. Pakistan needs more Iqbal's and Jinnah's.
We need Muslim leaders who can think and adapt Islam to the 21st century. We don't want to live like Muslims did a thousand years ago. If some people on this board want to live like that, then do so, but don't tell me to do so.
Muslims in India became Muslims because of people like Data Ganj Baksh and other Sufi saints. These people adapted Islam in such a way that it appealed to my fore fathers. They presented Islam as a tolerant, modern, equal and loving religion. Imagine our current mullah's trying to spread Islam?
[/QUOTE]
Exactly, those mollahs and Deobands at that time were busy declaring the concept of Pakistan as being haraam. You also talked about the great Sufi saints, here is another post by Salman Ahmed from his forum...
[quote]
A few years back (around the time of sayonee/azadi ) I felt that we had struck a chord with the mainstream of pakistani society.Most everyone jived with the
blend of rock guitars,tabla and sufiana poetry and saw our music as modern pakistani cultural expression.Everyone that is except nawaz sharif and his
henchmen who banned us for "desecrating islam",long hair,jeans and being "westernized".(i could understand the bit about long hair because mian sahib was bald and probably got jealous!)
I protested against the ban by writing an article in the national press ("the pariah's of pakistani culture")
which basically said that pakistanis should decide on what is culturally acceptable to them, not
the government or the clergy.Pakistan is already an islamic state it will always be an islamic state so why is their such paranoia and neurosis to hyper-islamicize Pakistan?
Two years ago farhat hashmi (a woman cleric) sent a letter to me with a cd and a couple of cassettes (no it wasn't nusrat fateh's greatest hits!)the letter and the tapes were her sermons against music and musicians/artists.Farhat hashmi wrote to me saying I was a tool of satan.She warned me that i was condemning myself to hell and that I should follow the example of those who had returned to the right path.
**
Next thing I hear is that my old buddy junaid does an about face and publicly renounces music.He dragged me to a tableeghi jammat gathering where all I heard were frightening
sermons about the wrath of Allah and the punishment to all those who are guilty of sin.
I just got up and left... **
I'm a human being not some sheep or cow that you can beat into submission.The reason I believe in God and Islam is because it's a religion of knowlege,love and tolerance.
Most of these Mullah's don't have any tolerance or respect for us and they look at the rest of us in Pakistan with contempt,arrogance and disrespect.
The film looks at ordinary pakistanis (like you and me) and those who want to force pakistan into a taliban like state.
**
The other point I make is that Islam in the subcontinent was spread through poetry and music not thru the sword.The pakistani islamic identity is heavily influenced by Sufism.
I'm talking about the sufism which recognises God alone without any intercessor,saint or middleman/woman.That is true freedom and that is my personal belief.No one has the right to condemn or judge anyone.
check it out!**
He is the lead guitar player for Junoon, Pakistan’s first and most famous rock band. The group is made up of one U.S.-born Christian and two Pakistani Muslims. Junoon performs in Urdu, Punjab and English. Their lyrics blend Sufi mysticism with political activism. The band has been playing in the United States since Sept. 11, 2001, and they have recorded an anti-terrorism anthem, “No More.” The band is the subject of a new PBS documentary called Junoon: The Rock Star and the Mullahs.
