Religious discrimination by the Hindus in India

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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India’s Great Divide
Mounting fury over religious discrimination by the Hindu majority is triggering an increasingly violent Muslim backlash

**BY **[EMAIL=“[email protected]”]ALEX PERRY | BOMBAY

Surveying the sunset over Bombay’s southern coastline from the calm of his palatial first-floor office, police joint commissioner Ahmad Javed could scarcely look less like an outsider.

“This country doesn’t work for Muslims any more,” he says. “You can’t get a proper education. You can’t get a job. You’re not even safe.”

Here we have two Indian Muslims with two very different experiences of their homeland. But the truth is that Javed and Umar share a fundamental burden: in the eyes of many Hindus, no Muslim can ever truly belong in India.

The war on terror and the 1998 election of the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) on a Hindu-nationalist agenda, which focused debate on physically undoing the Mughal invasion by razing mosques built over Hindu temples, have lent a veil of legitimacy to India’s lurking anti-Muslim prejudice. “Muslims are a despised minority, disliked by a large section of the majority,” wrote Muslim commentator Firoz Bakht Ahmed in the Hindu newspaper last month.

In rural India, 29% of Muslims earn less than $6 a month, compared with 26% of Hindus; in the cities (where a third of all Muslims live) the gap rises to 40% vs. 22%. Some 13% of India’s population is Muslim, yet Muslims account for just 3% of government employees, and an even smaller percentage are employed by private Hindu businesses. Meanwhile, in the cities, 30% of Muslims are illiterate, vs. 19% of Hindus. Nor are any of these indices improving.

As Hindu mobs rampaged across the state in an orgy of violence that was to cost 2,000 Muslim lives, Sheikh hid on a rooftop in her hometown of Baroda, Gujarat, and watched a crowd of 100 pelting her family’s home and attached bakery with bricks and bags of gasoline. After an hour of this, she recalls, a Hindu police sergeant addressed the mob: “He said, ‘You have to finish this tonight, to finish everyone off. This has to be over with by the morning.’ And then he got back into his jeep and left.”

**SOURCE: **http://www.time.com/time/asia/magazine/article/0,13673,501030811-472904,00.html

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Re: Religious discrimination by the Hindus in India

Surveying the sunset over Bombay's southern coastline from the calm of his palatial first-floor office, police joint commissioner Ahmad Javed could scarcely look less like an outsider.

"This country doesn't work for Muslims any more," he says. "You can't get a proper education. You can't get a job. You're not even safe

Then what is Ahmad Javed sab doing as a joint police commissioner?? Don't he have a job?... he has and a very responsible job
Isn't he safe? if police man is not safe then who is?
*don't he have a proper education? .. then how did he get to the top job *

Muslims in india has access to all the civilian rights as that any other indian citizen have. that's why we are called the secular nation and don't forget nation's highest office has been run by a highly respected man who is muslim by religion.....and not for the first time

Lifeless - Your temp mod
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Re: Religious discrimination by the Hindus in India

well lahore, have u even read the article u r sourcing properly??? Either u want to engage in false propoganda or ur englsh must be poor...may be u r from those backword pakistani schools part of corrupt education system influenced by outdated mullahs and fundamentalist.
Read it properly. It tells about two diffrent indian citizens of muslim religion and their status in the indian society. off course, javed is highly respected for his high profile (mind well indian police services exam is one of the toughest in the world) and other one is highly hated for his misguided deeds. rather than using the favorable condition in today's booming india to lead a comfortable and respected life, umar chose the path of fundamentalism and hatred.
yes...i agree with the article regarding the perception of muslim in the eyes of other indian citizens. this is not only true for india but for the whole world. muslims are eyed as miscreants all over world which is sad but not true. only small portion of muslims are engaged in the terrorist activities because of which whole clan is facing the hate crime against them.
Indian Muslims are not part of them. They are first INDIAN and then muslim,sunni or whatever. there are some of our muslim freinds who are influced by external anti social foes (who wants to see india collapse under divide but collapsing themselves rather) but they will never succeed.

Have you ever been in a haunted house or mansion ?
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Re: Religious discrimination by the Hindus in India

An article from August 2003, ...... :-)

Clearly shows the malafide intent..................
May be some of us well meaning guppies should stop responding to such blatant misuse of a very well organized forum Gupshup...

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Re: Religious discrimination by the Hindus in India

First of all this article is way too old so does not deserve to be discussed and secondly Mr. Umar is no authority on the condition of Indian Muslims.

who will gona miss me
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Re: Religious discrimination by the Hindus in India

Why you have made it out like Ahmad Javed said the above while it is actually Umar's POV?

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Re: Religious discrimination by the Hindus in India

that's because lahori is so dumb to interprete the text. i agree with rahul regarding miscreates using organised forum like gupshup to spread false propoganda

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Re: Religious discrimination by the Hindus in India

Can you bring out another Police comissioner in India CURRENTLY in service from a Muslim population of 13%?

How many Hindu Police comissioners are there in service from a Hindu population of 82%? Make a ratio. :halo:

**Besides, just read with open eyes what this Muslim police comissioner said about the plight of Indian Muslims in India. **

Same old crap. I can prove it to you from Indian sources that you are speaking a lie

How?
Reconsider that buddy. It is a big lie.

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Re: Religious discrimination by the Hindus in India

Don’t judge me too early cause in the end, same might be proven about you.

Read the topic of the title properly buddy and read the information I brought out from it. You have summerized a small part of the article yourself but deliberately missed the important information :snooty:

Dude, the article talks about the prospects of Muslims in India. It talks about the relative representation in different walks of life. What are you talking about.
Talk to me with proper supportive statistics about how Muslims have progressed in India and how they are represented in Indian society in what proportion. That is what the article is about. :halo:

Read the article carefully dude. The article says (in fact this police comissioner says in the article) that the eyes of Hindus still view them as outsiders…

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Re: Religious discrimination by the Hindus in India

All you guys, Indian gang,

If I am spreading a propaganda, if this article is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay tooooo old (from 2003) please elaborate and enlighten us about the status
of Indian Muslims in India TODAY.

Posting an old article doesn't mean anything wrong, it means, you are being given an opportunity to present the updated improvements.

How about that dudes? You are 4 and I am one. All of you 4 can help out each other in this regard. :D

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Re: Religious discrimination by the Hindus in India

Until ALL muslims in India underline thier identity as Indian first and then part of the muslim subset, thier economic and social progress is going to be much, much less than spectacular.

The very nature of democratic government in India makes it nessecary for the population to identify with being Indian first and then other subsets. The majority of the population (read Hindu) is more concerned with making ends meet and bettering thier own lives and everyone realises that it is important for thier own progress to identify with being Indian first. This majority expects that like themselves, all muslims to be Indian first and anything else afterwards to maintain a stable status quo and create conditions for progress.There is consternation when fundamentalist muslims deliberately do not identify with thier Indian-ness but align themselves with an ummah that very obviously does not support them in any tangible way. The ire of the Hindu's is raised when fundamentalist muslims make it a point to agitate for seperate legislation (refusal to follow a Uniform Civil Code), and underline thier "differences" from the rest of the population. Then there arises a social unofficial policy of "you dont want to play by the rules of the team, so we will not let you play at all" which stymies Muslim progress.

For the most part, Muslims in India, just want to get on with thier lives and identify with being Indian first and prosper accordingly, but the rather large and growing fundamentalist percentage will continue to be marginalised and unfortunately will continue to drag the rest of the rank and file regular Joe Indian Muslims back into poverty and backwardness.

When all muslims of India become comfortable in thier skins as being Indian and only then muslim, they will prosper as well as anyone else in India.

GS ID's you often misread
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Re: Religious discrimination by the Hindus in India

See they knew its time to run. They cannot present any progress till 2003. They can just boast and give bogus statements…

Hello Bombay bhaio,

Any improvements till 2003 (You said my post was too old) You tell me what is new now??? :cb:

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Re: Religious discrimination by the Hindus in India

Lahore 981 please read my post above. It speaks about the status of Muslims in India right now and why it is that way.

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Re: Religious discrimination by the Hindus in India

Is that a threat?

Muslims will always be loyal to Islam/Allah first. So long as India does not become hostile to Islam, Muslims should and wil remain loyal to India, which is also a Muslim state (as per the law and constitution).

NO hindu should question that...they don't have the right. India does not equate to a Hindu state, with an expatriate Muslim minority who should be treated like guests. They're not.

[quote]

The majority of the population (read Hindu) is more concerned with making ends meet and bettering thier own lives and everyone realises that it is important for thier own progress to identify with being Indian first.

[/quote]

So Muslims do not have the same concern? If in 1947, the Muslmis accepted Ghandi's offer, and India remained a Muslim state...would you feel the same? Or is your comfort with being 'Indian' first rest with your perception that India is in essence a 'Hindu' state?

[quote]

There is consternation when fundamentalist muslims deliberately do not identify with thier Indian-ness but align themselves with an ummah that very obviously does not support them in any tangible way.

[/quote]

How does asserting Muslimness equate to non-Indianness? Because we feel close to our brethern in faith? Is it our fault that our religion is spread across the globe? The fact is, Islam is just as much Indian as any other religion. Until Hindus learn that, and internalize it, then there is no hope for India as we know it today.

No self-respecting Indian Muslim looks at any other Muslim nation as a 'home', as they consider India a Muslim state - i.e. a home for Muslims.

Can this 'Indian' first crap, and start paying attention to your countrymen, who are Muslims no matter where they live... in India, UK, Canada, America, or Timbuktu. Asking to be Indian first is a red herring when you're not even willing to accept their faith as 'Indian'...

Gizzy bhai...
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Re: Religious discrimination by the Hindus in India

Intent clear, whole reason of posting was to turn this thread in a Hindu Muslim tirade in India, where Muslims live with freedom and in normal ups and downs of life as any other community...
I made my points earlier, So I am out of this thread....... :-)

First Indian Train to Indian Kashmir
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Re: Religious discrimination by the Hindus in India

As for Status of Muslims in India

There are 50+ muslim countries, None provides Haz Subsidy. India do. Infact there is Haz terminal at Delhi International airport.
Hindu majority Punjab, Pondichery, Bihar and Kerala have elected Muslim Chief Ministers, give me one from an Islamic nation…Fanatic Hindu’s…
Oh I forgot they also elected Muslim President and have one now as well..
**Hindu temple funds are spent by Govt of India on Muslim welfare, while minorities have full freedome to spend the funds as they can… :what: **
Abdul Rahman Antulay was made trustee of Siddhi Vinayak Temple in Mumbai. Ever thought of a Hindu being trustee of a mosque.
**The richest Indian Ajim Premji **in India is a Muslim
Muslims across India are marrying girls from other communities and India is very tolerant to that, you don’t come to know about them exept about highprofile marriages, so those are AjimPremji’s son, Sharukh Khan, Jayed Khan, Fardeen Khan, Amir Khan, Arshad Warsi… Just to name a few..
Now that’s the status of Muslims in India…

As I earlier said, You can’t see reason unless you take off your colored glasses, hence I am out of this thread…

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Re: Religious discrimination by the Hindus in India

Too good, rahul

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Re: Religious discrimination by the Hindus in India

Oh please, it is so not a threat! I thought we were having a discussion. Actually I was very interested to read your post.. finally someone who was thinking and providing articulate arguments and not just sophistry.

Being Indian does not mean Hindu.. no where have I insinuated that. It means... exactly that... being Indian and being willing to be a part of the whole under the eyes of the law which should apply to everyone in the very same way... no seperate legislation, no religious subsidies, no extra affirmative action except due where due to economic nessecity (all of which must apply to every community)!

My point remains that fundamentalist forces within the muslim community are definatly being more strident towards carving out a very seperate identity for themselves. UNFORTUNATELY, this does tar the entire community... by association and perception.

Moderate muslims like everyone else are intent on making thier lives better, and have no time or inclination to correct these perceptions. There are so many examples of stellar success within the Indian Muslim community and there is definatly a swathe of middle class Muslim success that is so important to any society and economy. However the poor and easily led segments which comprise a large section of the community tend to be dragged backwards by the growing fundamentalism and militant insistance on being "different" and segregating themselves.

As for fundamentalism it is to be derided on both sides of the issue... Majority Hindu and MInority Muslim.

As far as India being hostile to Islam, that could not happen is any nazi way all over the country. India is too diverse and too populous for a fascist movement to sweep every part of it. Gujrat in the past few years remains an abberation. People who actually live thier lives in India everyday, know that well, notwithstanding reports in Pakistan's Jung or other news papers.

By definition, in the Constitution of India....India is a secular, socialist democratic republic. At no point in the constitution is a Muslim state mentioned. Infact a Hindu, Sikh, Parsi, Jain, Buddhist and "what have you" State is not mentioned either.

India becoming a wholly Muslim state and having a stable government for the future was not a viable option at all. Sooner or later democratic elections would have changed the status quo, simply due to numbers.

I have no argument with the events of 1947 at all. Partition of a land is what it is. It is cruel, and difficult but perhaps it was best for the circumstances then. Nothing can change those events, so we have to go on from there.

I have no argument with Islam being as Indian as any other religion. Islam is one of the religions practised in India and is should be a very private matter to be celebrated in private settings.... without public subsidy. That is never a bone of contention.

To argue that fundamentalist muslims do not look towards the Ummah for help in defining thier seperateness is a red herring. In practical terms this is exactly what happens and is a very dangerous precedent for letting in uncontrolled or uncontrollable foreign influences in matters of state and economy.

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Re: Religious discrimination by the Hindus in India

good points, mograkali. but your being hindu nullifies all your arguments.

or could it be that you are muslim? oh the horror!!

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Re: Religious discrimination by the Hindus in India

And would the horror be justified? :cb:

Perhaps or perhaps not.. who knows… pass me a toke!