Religion leads to violence [split: Saudi Produces Video Response to Anti-Islam Film]

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Exactly reaffirms what I have come to believe. Religion , no matter which one supports acts of violence as witnessed in Fitna and Schism. **Wow. vindication!!! **Perhaps the religious books are imperfect afterall based by video examples whereby a person can easily and readily use the Quran and Bible excerpts to support deeds of murder, annihilation and other equalling damning deeds by godly people. Wonder no more why people have and still kill in the name of god, believing it is blessed by God and sanctioned within the religious texts. All religions today have this guilt and sin .

It proves my argument, religions needs a major , major revision of their respective books if they don’t want films so easily made with absolute factual information easily accumalated onto tape. Cut and paste a quote then show violence with each phrase. what more proof do you need that there is an innate system of violence and its promotion within the religious faiths of the judeo-crhistian-islamic dogma which people and their leaders can easily use to support their deeds. And now we know why the holy lands are really war lands.

Edit, edit , and more editiing required by reformists and liberals in theocracy with a mandate not for organized dogma but for goverance on humanistic principles and human rights. Already there is a new world order in the developments of progressive spiritual faiths based on teachings for personal well being, social well being and as well as environmental guardianship and the respect for pro choice in sexual orientation. Its termed the New age Movement .

I predict as more people question and they will as I do in my courses that new age philosphies and spirituality will attract more curious people to search and read: perhaps a religiousless society based on principles of philosophy not dogma, choice not suppression , worship not submission and questioning without stifling will emerge on this planet.

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Re: Saudi Produces Video Response to Anti-Islam Film

Violence and crime has nothing to do with any book or scripture. Columbine high killing , Virginia tech killing , cannibalism by Jeffery Dhamar were inspired by which religious book or scripture ?
Un-provoked attack on Iraq was inspired by Bible ?
Serial killers are inspired by which religion ?
Any human will find reason and logic for his/her violence sometimes in a book , sometimes in his own philosophy, sometimes in actions and non action of others.

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Re: Saudi Produces Video Response to Anti-Islam Film

I consider myself a religious person but I think uberalles has a point. The amount of violence discord and misery in the world caused by religious complexes is probably more than all other causes put together.

God and religion are being co-mingled.

BTW while I do not support Geert's publishing such a film, I do not think Saeed's response makes any sense. For example, while the 9/11 attack was clearly done in the name of Islam (Osama wanted infidels out of 'holy' land') the invasion of Iraq by the US was not done in the name of religion but actually to liberate people from a dictator who had become a menace. There is no equivocation.

Signature of the month contest.
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Re: Saudi Produces Video Response to Anti-Islam Film

Oh god, please stop organized religion

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Re: Saudi Produces Video Response to Anti-Islam Film

^ bingo. Just like organized crime is rackateering.

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Re: Saudi Produces Video Response to Anti-Islam Film

Nationalism is still tops when it comes to Killing...the Mongol invasions...both World Wars...European wars and colonalism...Roman expansionism...Persian Expansionism...and so on and so on....who are we kidding here?

We should first consider outlawing the concept of a nation-state, if anything...

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Re: Saudi Produces Video Response to Anti-Islam Film

Nationalism may still be tops when it comes to killing in sheer numbers, but killing in the name of God still tops any chart when measured by ignorance, arrogance, self righteousness and unholiness.

The self rigtheousness of those who feel their religion is the right path to God yet dismiss those who misuse it are no better (IMO worse) than those who hold the same feelings about their countries. At least an ignorant, naive and foolish citizen isn't pretending to be doing God's work.

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Re: Saudi Produces Video Response to Anti-Islam Film

Okay...so killing fewere people but being ignorant is worse than killing orders of magnitude more people in the name of country...because it's "arrogant"....riiigghhtt..

In other words, it's okay to kill a mass of people...but don't you dare be ignorant or arrogant about it!

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Re: Saudi Produces Video Response to Anti-Islam Film

^ you're juts using Bush's dumbness to justify and gloss over all the problems and inequities of the middle east! explain what is driving the shias and sunnies to bomb each other in the hundred? and what is the justification for osama's band of goons to kill thousands in NyC? so now sit down and take the count who killed more

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Re: Saudi Produces Video Response to Anti-Islam Film

So why do muslims claim it is a war on Islam?

Case studies of serial killers use religious manifestations in their deeds. Studies on serial killers and their lives have proven a common demonominator in a criminology course I took in my second year at UNI. A high majority were raised in very parochial households where religion placed a dominate and aggresive role. A secondary influence was a meak father of low moral character manifesting in quirky perversions with a zealously domineering mother who would preach hellfire and brimstone . Third characteristic influence would be a domineering religiously dogmatic father with low education and a passive -aggresive dominance by the mother transferred onto the children of the household. Usually a particular child is the main target of this.

Rarely , very rarely do serial killers manifest their deeds simply out of sadomasochistic sexual machinations without religious influence as the preponderance of evidence regarding their home life as youngsters does support the findings religion was overwhelming suppressive and demanding and punishing on their young lives.

Much rarer is that simply the ego has not manifested mature confidence or self esteem which results in internal dissatisfaction and self hatred and they mask this (internalize it) and when chance arises and manly macho comes out they then manifest it outwardly in violence. When this results , all victims have a common denominator ie: color of hair and length, and or age, or a simply being a confident woman whom a man adores but feels unworthy in expressing his desire to her. When they finally get hold of their object their desire is so overwhelming mixed with self hatred that they commit abnormal control mechanisms which leads to death of the persued/love intended. These people usually end up taking an object from the victim as a token of their achievement in their sick twisted minds. A reminder of their bold actions and their heightened sense of increasingly manifested self import. What they have conquered through insecurity is actually the annihilation of that which they once thought they could not attain or obtain.

It is only when subconcious guilt arises do serial killers boldly venture to taunt authorities like BTK as their ego increasingly feeds off their 'powerful' deeds and thusly escalating their bravado .

When the super ego clashes with ego all craziness ferments and rational thinking becomes an anathema as self absorbtion and self gratificaton becomes apparent and then mistakes occur. Climax to power if you will.

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Re: Saudi Produces Video Response to Anti-Islam Film

But every expanding society wishing to capture more wealth and lands all believed in a divine being giving them the power to dominate. It was not simply a matter of politics as we know it today. Persia, Rome , etc , etc the politics and people of political power in those eras were guided and supported by a populace belief in divine right and that divine right was on their side to do so. Religion was not separate from politics it was politics. To confuse political agenda as we know it today with historical politcal agenda and expansionism is simply erroneous. Hitler was not simply a democratic political agenda of church separate from state , but an indoctrination that one religious people had every right to beyond decency and commit heinous activities against another religious group while in the pursuit of wealth and land domination. Conversely, America's invasion of Iraq was a calculatingly strategy of political will to rid Saddam Hussein. The religous turmoil of today is zealous opportunity which was suppressed by saddam and due to his removal has manifested into a war of sunni = shiite war for dominance and their further fundamental belief in the damnation of non-muslims.

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Re: Saudi Produces Video Response to Anti-Islam Film

Yes!!!

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Re: Saudi Produces Video Response to Anti-Islam Film

Wishful thinking.

[quote]

explain what is driving the shias and sunnies to bomb each other in the hundred?

[/quote]

A power vacuum left by the botched management of a post-Saddam Iraq. Tribal politics, which happens to follow along sectarian lines, fed by Americans siding with one side, and alientating the other. Oh..right...it's all about religious dogma...okay, if you say so. I'm afraid there are very modern reasons behind the violence...

[quote]

and what is the justification for osama's band of goons to kill thousands in NyC? so now sit down and take the count who killed more
[/quote]

Are you serious.? The initial incursion into Iraq killed way more than the death toll in NYC.

And are you suggesting the Iraq war had something to do with 9-11? Now who is touting conspiracy theories?

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Re: Saudi Produces Video Response to Anti-Islam Film

So what? The bottom line is, the concerns were secular, and nationalistic. It's all too easy to dismiss the idea of nationalistic wars as only relevant to a period of history in which the modern notion of a nation-state was in play. But the characteristics are the same.

Religion was co-opted by nationalist concerns...not the other way.

[quote]

It was not simply a matter of politics as we know it today. Persia, Rome , etc , etc the politics and people of political power in those eras were guided and supported by a populace belief in divine right and that divine right was on their side to do so.

[/quote]
Define "politics as we know it today"...and please tell me how that is relevant. The claim was that nationalistic conflicts have led to more deaths than religious ones. The Mongolian invasions, and the European wars are sufficient evidence.

Persia, Rome, and Egypt advanced on the whim of the Emperor/Pharoh...their concerns secular, and their whims divine only by virtue of some equivalent notion of divine decree. That hardly qualifies their motives as "religious".

[quote]

Religion was not separate from politics it was politics. To confuse political agenda as we know it today with historical politcal agenda and expansionism is simply erroneous.

[/quote]
Why? Again, their motives were not religious...their motives were given religious overtones. There is a fundamental difference between the two.

[quote[
Hitler was not simply a democratic political agenda of church separate from state , but an indoctrination that one religious people had every right to beyond decency and commit heinous activities against another religious group while in the pursuit of wealth and land domination.

[/quote]

Unhh...no. It was ALL about the Fatherland.

[quote]

Conversely, America's invasion of Iraq was a calculatingly strategy of political will to rid Saddam Hussein.

[/quote]
Well, removal of Saddam was just a means to an end...and it's all about the homeland...and dogmatic notions of "freedom" and how it will "save"- the people of the middle east. Don't you watch CNN?

[quote]

The religous turmoil of today is zealous opportunity which was suppressed by saddam and due to his removal has manifested into a war of sunni = shiite war for dominance and their further fundamental belief in the damnation of non-muslims.
[/quote]
Kurds are Sunni too. The point being that the conflict is primarily sectarian along tribal lines...and divisions along tribal lines are coincident to divisions along religious lines. The concerns, actually, are secular...in fact, Al-Sadr was the one who was imploring for Sunni-Shia unity against the American invasion...and among those bitterly opposed to the Shia were secular Sunnis...

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Re: Saudi Produces Video Response to Anti-Islam Film

At the end of the day, isn't that more of an ethno-nationalist complaint than anything else?

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Re: Saudi Produces Video Response to Anti-Islam Film

uh okay so now i have heard it all ....
care to mention which "religious people" did he have in mind ?

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Re: Saudi Produces Video Response to Anti-Islam Film

Hindu extremists in India promote killing of muslims in name of Hinduism, you consider that an act of faith?

;) Choose A Profession 4 Above Person ;)
;) Choose A Profession 4 Above Person ;)
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Re: Religion leads to violence [split: Saudi Produces Video Response to Anti-Islam F

The bolded par is all bull$hit. The reality is that violence is here to stay, even if organized religion vanishes from face of earth tomorrow.

WWII, Holocaust, Iraq war, Opium war did not have any religious dogma behind them.

Does money buy happiness?
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Re: Saudi Produces Video Response to Anti-Islam Film

Bcoz its inspied by psuedo-christians theologists

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Re: Religion leads to violence [split: Saudi Produces Video Response to Anti-Islam F


Yes!!!
[/quote]
Gotcha! So you both would like an unorganized religion? or no religion at all? What evidence do you have that it will make the evil, violence vanish from this world? Does religion drive rapists to rape? What about stealing? Do your blind brains not consider rapes, and stealing as violence and evil?


Couldn't have said it any better. Let me add two more names, Mongols (someone mentioned already) and wonderful atheists: Stalin (under his regime, roughly 20 million people were mascaraed), and Mao

Sleep walkin' Sleep talkin'