While the traditional scholars have largely relied on scriptures as basis of religion, likes of Rumi and Iqbal state that experience of divine also serves as basis to truth of religion.
Do you beleive that religious experience is possible?
Is religious experience a truth?
While the traditional scholars have largely relied on scriptures as basis of religion, likes of Rumi and Iqbal state that experience of divine also serves as basis to truth of religion.
Do you beleive that religious experience is possible?
Is religious experience a truth?
I do not think one can differentiate between the two!
remember all of life's experiences...........happen to each one of us Good not so good or Evil are all happening under Allah's Qudrat.........bey yadeh hil Mulk wa hoa ala "Qule Shai" in Qadeer .........
especially note that Islam is deen..........meaning way of life..........so which part of life would you call non-religious experience?
Re: Religion, Faith or Experience
How do you define a religious experience? Is it something different to a spiritual experience?
Re: Religion, Faith or Experience
Peace Iconoclast brother
I think I understand what you are asking and I feel the answer to your question lies in the Qur'an in the first verses that were revealed.
"...taught man with the pen, and what he knew not"
To teach with the pen can be an analogy for the scriptural, academic and curricular forms of education and the 'what you knew not' could mean the inspirational, spiritual and intangible forms of learning and acquired wisdoms.
Re: Religion, Faith or Experience
Yes i am talking about spirtual experience.
But my question i sthat is it truth? Is it reproducible and consistent?
Re: Religion, Faith or Experience
Try to seek the eternal essence within you. Observe the nature around you. Find the link between the two and try to submit yourself to the will of the creator.
Thus the master of the mystics, Imam Ali (as) said:
"One who has recognised his/her true self has recognised his Lord"
Re: Religion, Faith or Experience
But my question is
that is it truth? Is it reproducible and consistent?
Re: Religion, Faith or Experience
It is the ultimate goal of the life and the ultimate truth. Allah says that he has not created Jinn and Ins but only to worship him. Worship here is not only the salat, hajj, sawm, but it means complete submission to the will of the Lord. Once you have made an honest, whole hearted attempt to submit yourself, only then you truly start to benefit and see the truth and the reality. The biggest truth of them all being that you have come from Him and you will go back to Him.
Re: Religion, Faith or Experience
Something interesting that i read:
"The idea which has influenced most the climate of philosophical and religious thought is that body and soul are mutually antagonistic, and can develop only at each other�s expense. For the soul, the body is a prison and the activities of daily life are the shackles which keep it in bondage and arrest its growth. This has inevitably led to the universe being divided into the spiritual and the secular.
Those who chose the secular path were convinced that they could not meet the demands of spirituality, and thus they led highly material and hedonistic lives. All spheres of worldly activity, whether social, political, economic or cultural, were deprived of the light of spirituality; injustice and tyranny were the result.
Conversely, those who wanted to tread the path of spiritual excellence came to see themselves as �noble outcasts� from the world. They believed that it was impossible for spiritual growth to be compatible with a �normal� life. In their view physical self-denial and mortification of the flesh were necessary for the development and perfection of the spirit. They invented spiritual exercises and ascetic practices which killed physical desires and dulled the body�s senses. They regarded forests, mountains and other solitary places as ideal for spiritual development because the hustle and bustle of life would not interfere with their meditations. They could not conceive of spiritual development except through withdrawal from the world.
This conflict of body and soul resulted in the evolution of two different ideals for the perfection of man. One was that man should be surrounded by all possible material comforts and regard himself as nothing but an animal. Men learnt to fly like birds, swim like fish, run like horses and even terrorize and destroy like wolves � but they did not learn how to live like noble human beings. The other was that the senses should be not only subdued and conquered but extra-sensory powers awakened and the limitations of the sensory world done away with. With these new conquests men would be able to hear distant voices like powerful wireless sets, see remote objects as one does with a telescope, and develop powers through which the mere touch of their hand or a passing glance would heal the unhealable.
The Islamic viewpoint differs radically from these approaches. According to Islam, Allah has appointed the human soul as His Khalifah (vicegerent) in this world. He has invested it with a certain authority, and given it certain responsibilities and obligations for the fulfillment of which He has endowed it with the best and most suitable physical frame. The body has been created with the sole object of allowing the soul to use it in the exercise of its authority and the fulfillment of its duties and responsibilities. The body is not a prison for the soul, but its workshop or factory; and if the soul is to grow and develop, it is only through this workshop. Consequently, this world is not a place of punishment in which the human soul unfortunately finds itself, but a field in which Allah has sent it to work and do its duty towards Him.
So spiritual development should not take the form of a man turning away from this workshop and retreating into a corner. Rather, man should live and work in it, and give the best account of himself that he can. It is in the nature of an examination for him; every aspect and sphere of life is, as it were, a question paper: the home, the family, the neighborhood, the society, the market-place, the office, the factory, the school, the law courts, the police station, the parliament, the peace conference and the battlefield, all represent question papers which man has been called upon to answer. If he leaves most of the answer-book blank, he is bound to fail the examination. Success and development are only possible if man devotes his whole life to this examination and attempts to answer all the question papers he can.
Islam rejects and condemns the ascetic view of life, and proposes a set of methods and processes for the spiritual development of man, not outside this world but inside it. the real place for the growth of the spirit is in the midst of life and not in solitary places of spiritual hibernation. "
Iconoclast
Rumi is amongst the most misunderstood of the early scholars and one major element to that misunderstanding is the notion that spirituality is something which is a means and method in itself. Rather everyone has spiritual experiences and we need grounded beliefs to rationalise those experiences, for how would we know whether those experiences are actually from Allah (SWT)?
The spiritual path is not a neglect of the physical path, nor does it sanction bypassing the rituals and rites, duties and practices, rather the spiritual path is the lighting up of the true path when such overt practices have been polished and perfected.
I say this because I get a sense of the truth in this, and I believe ascetic and gnostic practices are reproducible and consistent if the correct measures are taken to ensure this. The next thing to do is experiment to ascertain that evidence for yourself.
Something interesting that i read:
Islam rejects and condemns the ascetic view of life, and proposes a set of methods and processes for the spiritual development of man, not outside this world but inside it. the real place for the growth of the spirit is in the midst of life and not in solitary places of spiritual hibernation. "
Quite true. Lives of the representatives of the Allah (swt) are testimony to this.
وَاعْبُدْ رَبَّكَ حَتَّى يَأْتِيَكَ الْيَقِينُ
[15:99] And serve your Lord until there comes to you that which is certain.
Yes i am talking about spirtual experience.
But my question i sthat is it truth? Is it reproducible and consistent?
Depends on how you define the word spiritual and what it really means for you.
For me, it is a feeling for that which is unseen and intangible, as opposed to physical or mundane.
"KOI TU HAI JO NIZAM-E-HASTI CHALA RAHA HAI... WOHI KHUDA HAI"
"DIKHAI BHI NA JO DAI NAZAR BHI JO AA RAHA HAI...WOHI KHUDA HAI"
For me every breath I am taking is spiritual, when I wake up is spiritual, my fingers pushing the buttons on this keyboard is spiritual...etc. etc. you get the idea. I can feel a force unseen and intangible that is making me do all this....I have nothing to do with the mechanics of all this, I don't know how all of this is functioning in such flawless perfection.
And It is reproducible....
RC
Try to seek the eternal essence within you. Observe the nature around you. Find the link between the two and try to submit yourself to the will of the creator.
Thus the master of the mystics, Imam Ali (as) said: "One who has recognised his/her true self has recognised his Lord"
hmmm, so God is within the reach of everybody since self-realization is not bound to any certain religion as it is something universal that is accessible to all.
This verse comes to mind:
And (as for) those who strive hard for Us, We will most certainly guide them in Our ways; and Allah is most surely with the doers of good. Al-Quran 29: 69
i agree with psyah bhai 
it is reproducible and consistent only if our practices are at a level where beliefs are strandards and experiences are a truth.
hardly ever a few men may have reached that point . maybe those sufis like iqbal .
as he said
khudi ko ker buland itna
k her taqdeer say pehlay
khuda bunday sy poochay bata teri raza kia hey