Religion and Idol worship

Idol speculation
by Khushwant Singh

PREETAM Giani is an iconoclast (an idol-breaker) in more senses than one. He was born of Pakistani Muslim parents, given a Muslim name and brought up as one. He changed it to a recognisable Hindu-Sikh name Preetam Giani. While a student of English literature in Cambridge University, he openly proclaimed himself to be a gay and continues to champion the cause of homosexuals. He has been in trouble with the police. Looked upon by the orthodox as a renegade, he also declares he is an idolater: he worships Lakshmi, the goddess of wealth. However, Lakshmi has not been very kind to him as he is always hard up for money.

Preetam lives in Abbotabad (Pakistan) and often writes to me. Some years ago, he came to Delhi with his Pakistani friend. I took an afternoon off to drive them round the city. He was not interested in seeing monuments but agreed to visit Ghalib’s grave in Nizamuddin. While his friend recited the fateha beside the tomb of the poet, he stood at a distance taking photographs. He showed no desire to go into the dargah to pay homage to Amir Khusrau or Hazrat Nizamuddin Auliya. Instead, he went next door to the Ghalib Institute and handed over a set of his translations of Ghalib’s Diwan.

In his last letter to me, Preetam wrote: “Anyone who has ever kissed the photo of a loved one should be able to understand the reason for idolatory.” That I think is going too far. Most of us have photographs of people we love or admire on our walls or in silver frames on our tables but we do not worship them.

However, one has to concede that the dividing line between respect, admiration and worship is often blurred. However much some religions decry worship of idols, it manifests itself in different forms in all of them. Jainism and Buddhism question the existence of God and decry worship of idols as symbolic representations of the Divine. Nevertheless idols of Mahavira and other Tirthankars and those of Gautama Buddha are the central pieces of all Jain and Buddhist temples. Hinduism, which often maintains God is nirankar (without form), in practice makes no apology for representing the formless God in human or symbolic forms. The only Hindu temples without idols that I came across were in Bali. Reformist sects like the Brahmo and the Arya Samaj which tried to discard idol worship failed in their quests.

Sikhs, who also profess to be against idol worship, treat the Granth Sahib much the same way as Hindus treat their idols. The Granth Sahib is “woken up” in the morning (prakash) and put to sleep (santokhna) at night. It is draped in rich embroidered silks and taken out in processions. In homes of the rich, a room is set apart for the holy book (Baba ji da kamra), and fans or ACs are kept going round the clock in the summer months.

Christians deny they are idol worshippers. However, the reverence they show towards the statues of Jesus Christ and Virgin Mary are no different from reverence shown by idol worshippers to their deities carved in stone or wood.

Muslims claim with pride that they abominate idol worship and regard idol-breakers as their heroes. It is true that they do not allow pictures or idols of the Prophet to be made but Shias in Iran have pictures of Hazrat Ali Hasan and Hussain in the streets and on walls in their homes. More Muslims visit dargahs, where their holy men are buried, to ask for favours than they go to mosques to offer namaaz. Instead of worshipping idols, they worship graves of their peers, rightly described as kabar-prasti.

Idol worship is inherent in human nature.

Re: Religion and Idol worship

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by imran dhanji: *

Muslims claim with pride that they abominate idol worship and regard idol-breakers as their heroes. It is true that they do not allow pictures or idols of the Prophet to be made but Shias in Iran have pictures of Hazrat Ali Hasan and Hussain in the streets and on walls in their homes. More Muslims visit dargahs, where their holy men are buried, to ask for favours than they go to mosques to offer namaaz. Instead of worshipping idols, they worship graves of their peers, rightly described as kabar-prasti.

Idol worship is inherent in human nature.
[/QUOTE]

firstly, shiaas represent only a minority (<10%) of the muslims....
and their pratice (if they do hold pictures of the imams as sacred) is not a part of their belief....

secondly, the statement that "more muslims follow kabar-parasti then they go to mosques" is just as false as saying "most sikhs have no brains" (sorry for the anology, cud not think of a better; or worse; example)....

the author of the article is just trying to press baseless facts to support his own vague ideas (whatever they are)....

dhajani

Idol worship is not the correct term i think looking up to something greater is inherent in human nature.

In east they look up to bhudda or kali mah, in the west they look up to madonna or the dollar bill

The basis or foundation of this worship needs to be studied the foundation of what you are worshipping if you can proove it is false then you worshipping the wrong thing.

i see many hindus worshipping muslim holy man graves when their
child gets sick and ask for cure

rvikz : Well obviously they are misguided.

Re: Religion and Idol worship

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by imran dhanji: *
Idol worship is inherent in human nature.
[/QUOTE]

That is total and utter rubbish, believing in the oneness of God is innate and original, whereas idolatry is spurious and unnatural. That is why true inner peace/comfort is felt only in worshipping God whereas worshipping others only creates an unnatural intoxicating feeling.

There was a programme on Telly about a Brahmin Hindu who converted to Islam, he mentioned how he was a hardcore Hindu as a kid and teenager not because it gave him inner satisfaction or that because he thought it was the truth but because it was a hobby, it was fun to see all those idols of elephants and men and women with lots of arms, when he was younger it was like a cartoon to him.

He mentioned how one morning he was in the Pooja room playing with the idols and his grandfather came down for Pooja and started to laugh saying, “this guy will become great one day he’s playing with the gods”.

Re: Religion and Idol worship

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by imran dhanji: *
Muslims claim with pride that they abominate idol worship and regard idol-breakers as their heroes. It is true that they do not allow pictures or idols of the Prophet to be made but Shias in Iran have pictures of Hazrat Ali Hasan and Hussain in the streets and on walls in their homes. More Muslims visit dargahs, where their holy men are buried, to ask for favours than they go to mosques to offer namaaz. Instead of worshipping idols, they worship graves of their peers, rightly described as kabar-prasti.

Idol worship is inherent in human nature.
[/QUOTE]
Its not the idol worship inherent, its only worship inherent in human nature.

Those people who worship idols considering them gods and associate God’s (Allah’s) attributes with idols and believe it as their religions are idol worshipers. Those who do the same act with Graves, Hawas, Watan or Zun or Zar will be the same as idol worshipers if they call themselves followers of Islam. This act is not because of teachings of their religion its their personal act because Islam has nothing to with worshiping any object but Only one True God (Allah).

(1) About pictures there are different opinions in different school of thoughts.
(2) Pictures exist in media and publications of those people who found to be opposing making pictures.
(3) A simply Picture and picture which is Idols are two different things.

Picture

(a) a drawing, painting or photograph, etc:
(b) an image seen on a television or cinema screen
(c) something you produce in your mind, by using your imagination or memory

idol

a picture or object that people pray to as part of their religion:
someone who is admired and respected very much

Shias in Iran do have pictures of Hazrat Ali (A), Hussan (A) and Hassain (A) but its their person act, its not part of their religion. Moreover, they don’t pray or worship those pictures. Similarly the same is the case with Sunni religion; if you find somebody praying or worshiping graves of holy men; it’s his personal act. There is nothing to do with Sunni religion. Verdicts (Fatawa) from both Shia and Sunni Scholars are present for a knowledgeable person.

To ask for favor is not worshiping. Muslims believe in and worship only one God (Allah).

armughal Would you like see the breakout population wise of all sects and sub-sects in islam worldwide. (including other religions).

Why Muslims have a particular direction for offering namaz, when God is everywhere in all directions.
Why Muslims need to visit a stone at Kaaba?
Why Muslims are ready to die and kill for the sake of a mosque?

I request, no excuses please!
Idol worshipping simply means our regards for a stone or for any crystal formation.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by zman: *
rvikz : Well obviously they are misguided.
[/QUOTE]

Here is a guppi who does not know what happens when a child has not been responding to anti-biotics and could die any moment. If and when when you get married Zman bhai and have children of your own, tell me you won't do exactly that to cure your sick and dying child. Posts like this are a bewakoofi that comes out of inexperience.

Re: Re: Religion and Idol worship

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Zakiii: *

That is total and utter rubbish, believing in the oneness of God is innate and original, whereas idolatry is spurious and unnatural.

[/QUOTE]

And you know that how? The world is full of people who try to reach God in their own way. If that involves looking at a picture of God so be it. Just think about it. If you were God, would you really complain if somebody prays to you looking at a picture or a stone idol? Nothing unnatural about it. I have had it with stupid posts such as yours.

Re: Re: Religion and Idol worship

What he does is his act, Islam doesnt teach worshiping graves.

edit: info not needed :p

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by anjjan: *
Why Muslims have a particular direction for offering namaz, when God is everywhere in all directions.

to strengthen the uniformity among the muslims....
and to show that they r all equal....
and to organize the prayers. byt fixing them in one direction so u wud not have people praying in haphazard manner in a mosque....
please note that if u r not sure about the direction of the kaaba u can pray facing anywhere....
Quran 2:177 clearly mentions that its not which direction u face that matters, but its the taqwa (piety) of ur hearts....

Why Muslims need to visit a stone at Kaaba?

which stone is that????
i am a muslim, was born muslim, and have never heard that there is a certain stone that muslims need to visit....

Why Muslims are ready to die and kill for the sake of a mosque?

why is anyone willing to die and kill for a country????
or for his money????
or for his honor????
or for any other thing????
what wrong do u see in people fighting for their rights????

[/QUOTE]

Mr. Arvind

regardless of the situation you cannot ask from IDOLS and/or make IDOLS of people in graves. If you are a hindu, then you dont really believe in the Oneness of Allah(swt) and you would resort to worshipping anything and everything that you deemed would benefit you.

If you are in a situation where your loved one is sick, I suggest you drop hinduism(if you are a hindu), become a muslim and ask Allah(swt) to cure your loved one.

I would also suggest that you drop the insults.

If you are a non-muslim then consider this as my invitation to you to come into islam.

If you do not accept Islam then consider this as my last response to you.

Agree with Zman. Some versus from the Quran on idols and idol worshippers.

"Verily ye, (unbelievers), and the (false) gods that ye worship besides Allah, are (but) fuel for Hell ! To it will ye (surely) come ! (The Noble Quran, 21:98)". And "Lo! Abraham said to his father Azar: "Takest thou idols for gods? For I see thee and thy people in manifest error. (The Noble Quran, 6:74)"

"We took the Children of Israel (with safety) across the sea. They came upon a people devoted entirely to some idols they had. They said: 'O Moses! fashion for us a god like unto the gods they have.' He said: 'Surely ye are a people without knowledge.' As to these folk,- the cult they are in is (but) a fragment of a ruin, and vain is the (worship) which they practise. (The Noble Quran, 7:138-139)"

"Remember Abraham said: 'O my Lord! make this city one of peace and security: and preserve me and my sons from worshipping idols.' (The Noble Quran, 14:35)"

"Such (is the Pilgrimage): whoever honours the sacred rites of God, for him it is good in the Sight of his Lord. Lawful to you (for food in Pilgrimage) are cattle, except those mentioned to you (as exception): but shun the abomination of idols, and shun the word that is false. (The Noble Quran, 22:30)"

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by zman: *
Mr. Arvind

regardless of the situation you cannot ask from IDOLS and/or make IDOLS of people in graves. If you are a hindu, then you dont really believe in the Oneness of Allah(swt) and you would resort to worshipping anything and everything that you deemed would benefit you.

If you are in a situation where your loved one is sick, I suggest you drop hinduism(if you are a hindu), become a muslim and ask Allah(swt) to cure your loved one.

I would also suggest that you drop the insults.

If you are a non-muslim then consider this as my invitation to you to come into islam.

If you do not accept Islam then consider this as my last response to you.
[/QUOTE]
If that is your version of an invitation, don't be surprised if you don't have any takers.

What's the big deal about visual props anyway? What difference does it make if someone worships a picture/statue of someone or just the person? All religions do it including Islam.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by zman: *
Mr. Arvind

regardless of the situation you cannot ask from IDOLS and/or make IDOLS of people in graves. If you are a hindu, then you dont really believe in the Oneness of Allah(swt) and you would resort to worshipping anything and everything that you deemed would benefit you.

If you are in a situation where your loved one is sick, I suggest you drop hinduism(if you are a hindu), become a muslim and ask Allah(swt) to cure your loved one.

I would also suggest that you drop the insults.

If you are a non-muslim then consider this as my invitation to you to come into islam.

If you do not accept Islam then consider this as my last response to you.
[/QUOTE]

you are giving a false promise sickness cant be cured by going to doctor
but by doing specfic religious act that also some kind of witchcraft.

Why is it not so apparent to you, Seminole and rvikz that there is only one God ? I'd say drop all the god look-alikes and worship the only One and true Allah(swt) who not only created you but created everything in and in between the heavens and the earth.

And just FYI Rvikz : Allah(swt) also created that doctor who you go to for getting medicine.

This is my last post regarding this, so please, to you your religion and to me my religion.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by zman: *
Why is it not so apparent to you, Seminole and rvikz that there is only one God ? I'd say drop all the god look-alikes and worship the only One and true Allah(swt) who not only created you but created everything in and in between the heavens and the earth.

And just FYI Rvikz : Allah(swt) also created that doctor who you go to for getting medicine.

This is my last post regarding this, so please, to you your religion and to me my religion.
[/QUOTE]

i dont own any religen or exlclusive rights or own the truth or calim if you pray to this you will get certain things.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by zman: *
Mr. Arvind

I would also suggest that you drop the insults.

If you are a non-muslim then consider this as my invitation to you to come into islam.

If you do not accept Islam then consider this as my last response to you.
[/QUOTE]

Thanks but no thanks. And I did not insult anybody just pointed out your disconnect with reality.

What are you going on about? Hindus had the concept of oneness of GOD before any of semitics ever figured out the right end of the camel. Infact, for you to belive in the oneness of GOD, makes you a hindu. All muslims are hindu, just another sect. ram ram… :wave: